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  1. #1
    Immortal matheney2k's Avatar
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    Raiding and the continued faction imbalance

    So I remember Blizzard addressing the faction imbalance in the raiding scene at some point during the BFA beta, trying to entice more people to go alliance. I was browsing some of the new features on the official wow site and I stumbled on the "Mythic Raid Leaderboard" and as of this posting there are a total of 9 guilds in the world that have killed mythic G'huun, and 8 of them are Horde. And what's worse is that the only alliance guild to kill mythic G'huun on that list is #9, aka dead last! Over on Wowprogress.com it only shows 14 alliance guilds in the top 100. Now I don't care too much personally myself over these things as I'm a pretty disgusting casual, but it got me to thinking so I thought I'd create a thread here to see what you guys thought of the following question:

    What DOES Blizzard have to do to get more high-end raiders on the alliance side and get a better balance than an 86% ratio of horde to alliance?

    Sources:

    https://www.wowprogress.com
    https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ga...?faction=HORDE
    https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ga...ction=ALLIANCE
    Last edited by matheney2k; 2018-09-25 at 09:15 AM.
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  2. #2
    Free transfers and faction changes. Nothing else will solve this "issue", because to us as a raiding population, there *is* no issue with everyone being horde - it's just beneficial to us because it keeps costs down (we only have to pay a transfer fee) if everyones the same faction.

    If changes and transfers were free, everyone could play the faction they'd prefer rather than the one that's most convinient.

  3. #3
    Deleted
    PvP in Europe is the other way around. Faction imbalances were created until WoD and are not going away anytime soon.

  4. #4
    Warchief Amaterasu65's Avatar
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    It's too late. I play Alliance in probably the best EU Alliance server (Ravencrest) for hardcore raiding. 3 top guilds went Horde because they were facing recruitment problems. The fashion started during MoP when Horde racials were on another level and now it's too late to go back. Recruitment in the Alliance for hardcore guilds is bound to get worse, some will decide to accept it, others will leave.

    It is too late.

  5. #5
    I am Murloc! WskyDK's Avatar
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    It’s not going to get better even if they open free transfers and the like.

    If anything, that would exacerbate the problem since a significant portion of the raiding scene is horde. This means better and easier recruitment. Which means most of those raiding guilds would use free transfers to go horde.

    The cat is out of the bag. Short of them releasing staggeringly OP racials, nothing is going to put it back in.
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  6. #6
    You can't open free transfers, because in the game's overall population, Alliance actually outnumbers Horde something like 54% to 46%. It's really only the highly skilled players (that is, high end raiding and pvp) that are Horde.

    There's really nothing they CAN do. Horde racials were OP in terms of competitive content, whether that be PvE OR PvP for several years, but that was years ago - in BC and Wrath. The world top raiders/Arena PvPers went Horde for the extra boost, and a lot of the upper echelons of the both communities followed. After all... even if you're good enough to get into Method or one of their competitors, you can't do it as an Alliance toon. So the top of the Alliance drained away to Horde and never returned.

    But as I said, it was years ago; more than eight years ago Cataclysm was released. Eight years of community evolution and development. There's no nice or easy fix for that.
    Last edited by Nefarious Tea; 2018-09-25 at 07:55 AM.
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  7. #7
    The Patient Awelon's Avatar
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    It's just that the Horde is "cool". And of course the fact that Blizzard pretty much loves the Horde and is kinda biased to it. It has been so from the start, the Horde is so damn cool and special snowflake along with better racials that suit the raiding scene.

  8. #8
    They could buff Alliance PvE racials of alliance like crazy maybe?

  9. #9
    Deleted
    Well, what Blizzard says and what they do are usually 2 completely different things: They continue to provide the Horde with teensy advantages on every occasion they get. Look at the Warfronts as a rather simple example:

    Alliance started it which gave them access to the Warfront world boss. CHANCE for a 370 ilvl item. Fair enough, bonus roll worked but at the very beginning of the expansion, most probably just kept those for their highest raid content.

    All the rares that dropped 340 titanforgable gear were open to BOTH Alliance and Horde (!!).

    Horde could contribute, thus extremely quickly increasing their azerite level.

    Then Horde could do the scenario with a 100% (!!) 370 item.

    This all just before mythic raid even opened.

    So in summary:
    Alliance: Chance (!) at a 370 item plus rares with 340 items
    Horde: Guaranteed 370 item plus rares with 340 items plus a massive amount of azerite

    In the broader picture, this doesn't matter, but in the week before mythic raid opens, these little things do matter.

    Edit: The simple solution for this would have been to open 2 warfronts at the same time. One Alliance controlled, one Horde controlled. Problem solved. But they didn't.

  10. #10
    Bloodsail Admiral rogoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    Free transfers and faction changes. Nothing else will solve this "issue", because to us as a raiding population, there *is* no issue with everyone being horde - it's just beneficial to us because it keeps costs down (we only have to pay a transfer fee) if everyones the same faction.

    If changes and transfers were free, everyone could play the faction they'd prefer rather than the one that's most convinient.
    actually at this point i feel if they opened up free faction/realm changes it would actually cause problems because of the 'hall of fame' situation, as guilds would free transfer to get an 'easy win' (perceived or otherwise), then once done would just swap back to the 'proper' faction and start over again.

    retired march 2013 RIP - returned january 2016, purely because paladins finally get Ashbringer!

  11. #11
    Why is it bad if one faction has more players?
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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    Free transfers and faction changes. Nothing else will solve this "issue", because to us as a raiding population, there *is* no issue with everyone being horde - it's just beneficial to us because it keeps costs down (we only have to pay a transfer fee) if everyones the same faction.

    If changes and transfers were free, everyone could play the faction they'd prefer rather than the one that's most convinient.
    Except even then, M+ exists, so with free transfers everybody would just go Horde(for a bigger pool of people to play with in M+), it wouldn't "fix" Alliance. Not that I have a problem with that, just saying it wouldn't make the Alliance situation any better.

  13. #13
    Scarab Lord Leih's Avatar
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    I don't think there is any fixing it, besides doing something awful like overbuffing Alliance racials to force players to move back that way for a competitive advantage, which no one is happy with.

    People in hardcore guilds steadily migrated towards Horde while their throughput racials were so incredibly overpowered, particularly in Mists. This has created a consolidation of talent - all the hardcore guilds moved to Horde, all the wannabe hardcores moved to Horde to try and join the Hardcore guilds... then the less hardcore Mythic guilds struggle to recruit, so they move to Horde too. By now, Horde is just the accepted faction if you want to hardcore raid.

    The only other way I can think of to "fix" the situation is remove faction barriers in the first place... Allow Horde/Alliance to raid together, make guilds faction agnostic, combine the group finders, etc. That obviously has its own problems, and isn't likely to happen because with BFA they're reinforcing the whole Faction Pride through the story.

    Even if they just made Faction changes free... I think it'd just have all the remaining players move to Horde :P
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  14. #14
    Boost alliance racials by like 400-500% then after 1-2 tiers bring them back to normal.

  15. #15
    Scarab Lord Leih's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tradu View Post
    Except even then, M+ exists, so with free transfers everybody would just go Horde(for a bigger pool of people to play with in M+), it wouldn't "fix" Alliance. Not that I have a problem with that, just saying it wouldn't make the Alliance situation any better.
    Agree with this. If you made it free to move faction you'd just get most of the remaining Alliance players moving to join the Horde side for free so everyone can be in one big pool. The only reason I play Alliance is asthetics and RP. If I could freely move my raid characters to Horde for raiding and come back and forth at will, I'd spend a lot more time on Horde side, sadly.
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  16. #16
    Its beyond dirty that a faction/server/race change costs more money than most games today.
    Its the one thing i never will forgive blizzard for doing. Its absoultly insane how much it costs to move your character to a new guild wich often are on a diffrent server.

    Beta/ptr proves that it takes basicly no effort at all for them to move around characters, yet still a faction and server change cost as much as a brand new highbudget game...

    It makes me angry just thinking about how massivly greedy they are....

  17. #17
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Aphrel View Post
    Its beyond dirty that a faction/server/race change costs more money than most games today.
    Its the one thing i never will forgive blizzard for doing. Its absoultly insane how much it costs to move your character to a new guild wich often are on a diffrent server.

    Beta/ptr proves that it takes basicly no effort at all for them to move around characters, yet still a faction and server change cost as much as a brand new highbudget game...

    It makes me angry just thinking about how massivly greedy they are....
    I think the high costs are warrented to avoid Alliance completely dying out. If it was not that expensive, the natural trend would be to clump on one side due to increased recruitement pools. Reason that this is Horde is that they used to be vastly superior in Raiding due to their racials. This started the trend which now cannot be stopped any more.

  18. #18
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellspawn View Post
    They could buff Alliance PvE racials of alliance like crazy maybe?
    Alliance pop is bigger than horde. Op racials would increase that problem.. They need some nice top tier rewards for faction first kills so some top guilds might go alliance to get it. Alliance does not need more pve players, as problem is much smaller between top 500-1000 guilds, it is just that they need someone on top tier 1-50 bracket

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Socronoss View Post
    I think the high costs are warrented to avoid Alliance completely dying out. If it was not that expensive, the natural trend would be to clump on one side due to increased recruitement pools. Reason that this is Horde is that they used to be vastly superior in Raiding due to their racials. This started the trend which now cannot be stopped any more.
    It's almost like you could level a new character... like you know... people do sometimes because it is free. OR almost as if you could.... pay for transfer it with gold.. no?

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    Free transfers and faction changes. Nothing else will solve this "issue", because to us as a raiding population, there *is* no issue with everyone being horde - it's just beneficial to us because it keeps costs down (we only have to pay a transfer fee) if everyones the same faction.
    Blizzard ain't dumb.

    Next Raid is asymmetric and will turn out to be hugely Alliance biased. Competitive guilds will (at least temporarily) faction change.
    Cross realm Mythic raiding unlock, and thus cross realm carry sales, is tied to the top 100 filled Alliance unlock. That is a financial incentive for top guilds to start/join an Alliance sister guild with their (Horde) players.
    Last edited by HuxNeva; 2018-09-25 at 08:51 AM.

  20. #20
    Immortal matheney2k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by You are wrong View Post
    Why is it bad if one faction has more players?
    In a universe where the main theme has always been this "horde vs alliance" psuedo-war, it doesn't make much of a war if one side is outnumbered over 8 to 1.

    Of course Blizzard would prefer the factions to be balanced on all fronts.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elba View Post
    Klling a new born is not much morally different than a late term abortion. Should be avoided, but it's not like it is an actual person yet.

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