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  1. #1

    My take on rework for Balance Druid.

    https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17624372382

    Hello. I am on and off a youtube creator, officer in my guild and a active member of the Dreamgrove Discord (Euroguy), I've made some videos on the Balance Druid and been doing guides on it. Not much from BFA however.

    Anyway! I love this spec, and I know there is a lot of problems with many other classes at the moment, but I want to speak for the Balance Druid with my opinions.

    Astral Power
    Even though Astral Power works, it's not a fun to have. It's simply another "build and spend" mechanic to the spec which seems to be a simple "We dont know what to do" thing for Blizzard to give classes. Many, many have this also known as a rage mechanic. I was happier playing with the old Eclipse but there were a lot of people that didn't enjoy it, and I respect that.
    Anyway, I want to remove the Astral Power mechanic for reasons to make the spec feel more reactive by giving it more procs.

    The only reason Astral Power is in the game is because of Starsurge and Starfall.
    Therefor there is no reason to change Solar Wrath or Lunar Strike, as they both gets cyclone between each other by Eclipse, you still want to use Lunar Strike on cleave, Solar Wrath on single target but still using a Lunar Empowerment on single target etc.

    So with the removal of Astral Power, we can finally play around with the specs design. With is my next topic.
    Everything below is the changes giving to the Balance Druid with Astral Power going away.


    Base Moonkin changes

    Moonfire and Sunfire
    Both very iconic for the Balance Druid and should both stay. BUT! Right now, our dots feel very boring to press and they don't do anything for us more than some damage overtime.
    Shooting Stars new passive ability:
    You have a 30% chance when you deal critical periodic damage with your Moonfire or Sunfire to instantly reset the cooldown of your Starsurge. This chance is reduced against multiple targets.

    Starsurge
    12 second cooldown, instant. Nothing else changed.

    Starfall
    The "place down Starfall a.k.a Blizzard" isn't fun and not unique in anyway. Starfall has lost a lot of personality over the years. With recent removal of Stellar Empowerment, Starfall is nowadays boring and doesn't feel great to press anymore.

    New Starfall
    Well.. Old Starfall basically but different. Tooltip reads:
    Calls down waves of falling stars to all targets within 40 yards of the caster that you're in combat with, dealing [9 * (13.8% of Spell power)] over 10 sec.
    Starfall only hits targets affected by Moonfire or Sunfire.
    Starfall has a 30 second cooldown. (Cooldown Should Be Debatable!)

    This will give us back the unique Starfall but also giving the old glyphs "Guided Stars" baseline. Reason? People should know that dots are important part of the Balance Druid, and the only way to actually use your Starfall is if you have dots on targets.

    Talents
    Our talents are not very influential, my current Balance Druid only does -15.0 less damage with no talents at all being used. From 13,220 dps to 11,233 while a Frost Mage for example is the different larger with -28% dps loss without any talents.

    Level 15
    Nature's Balance removed.
    Force of Nature now baseline (Does not give Astral Power, deals less damage, mostly used for the aoe taunt, a utility.)
    Warrior of Elune reworked.

    New in replacement of Nature's Balance.
    Hurricane
    Channeled
    A Solar spell that creates a violent storm in the target area causing (x% of Spell power) Nature damage to enemies every 1 sec and reduces the cooldown of Starfall by 1 sec for each enemy hit. Lasts 10 sec.

    New in replacement of Force of Nature:
    Wild Mushroom
    Grow a magical mushroom with 5 health at the target location that lasts 20 sec.

    Activating the ability again will allow the Wild Mushrooms to explode, dealing (x% of Spell power) to all targets.

    Warrior of Elune
    Your next 3 Lunar Strikes are instant cast and deals 40% additional damage.

    Level 30: No rework.

    New level 45:.
    All removed - A disgusting tree for Druids, we are druids. We should be able to shapeshift with benefits anytime. I want to rework the Affinity row to be more impactful. We should already have Ironfur, Rejuv etc baseline but at costs.

    The new row is called "Heart of the Wild" - This is because of an old talent. But instead of being just one talent it will be in row of level 45.

    Heart of the Wild
    When activated, increases all healing done and dramatically improves the Druid's ability to perform roles outside of their normal specialization for 30 sec. Grants the following benefits based on current specialization.

    New Talent: Guardian Affinity
    While in Bear Form, Agility, and armor bonuses increased, chance to be hit by melee critical strikes reduced.

    New Talent: Feral Affinity
    While in Cat Form, Agility and melee critical strikes increased.

    New Talent: Restoration Affinity
    Mana cost of all healing spells reduced by 100%. May also cast Rejuvenation while shapeshifted.

    All these talents are active to press, while using for example Feral Affinity, you will press the "Heart of The Wild" to active the bonuses.

    Level 60 talents:
    Nothing changed.

    Level 75
    Starlord, nothing changed.
    Incarnation: Chosen of Elune, nothing changed.
    Soul of the Forest, slightly reworked.

    New Soul of the Forest:
    Does the same but reduces the cooldown of Starfall by 10 seconds.

    Level 90
    Stellar Drift, reworked.
    Twin Moons, removed.
    Stellar Flare, reworked.

    New Stellar Drift:
    Starfall can now get it's cooldown reset by Shooting Stars.

    New in replacement of Twin Moons:
    Astral Storm:
    Replaces Starfall.
    Calls down waves of Astral Storm to all targets within 40 yards of the caster that you're in combat with, dealing [9 * (13.8% of Spell power)] over 10 sec. And burns all targets for additional x% of Spell Power after it's duration for 5 seconds.
    Astral Storm only hits targets affected by Moonfire or Sunfire.

    New Stellar Flare:
    Stellar Flare now replaces Moonfire and Sunfire to one dot. It spreads to nearby targets like Sunfire, but saves globals on pressing Moonfire on many targets.

    Level 100:
    Shooting Stars Removed.
    Fury of Elune reworked to not generate Astral Power, damage buffed.
    New Moon Reworked.

    New in replacement of Shooting Stars:
    Ancient Guardian:
    Replaces Force of Nature.
    Summons a powerful Ancient to aid you in battle, 3 minute cooldown. Lasts 30 seconds.
    You can choose between three ancient aspects.

    Ancient of the Tree: Heals you and nearby allies when the Ancient attacks for 20 seconds.

    Ancient of the Protector: Taunt all nearby enemies and decreases damage taken by you and players within 10 yards after taunts being used for 20 seconds. (Taunt lasts 10 seconds)

    Ancient of Wonders: Increases spell power to you and nearby players within 10 yards for 20 seconds.

    This talent seems fun in my head. It will offer utility but benefit for you and the team. Do I need to help the healer with heals? "But I want the damage increase instead of taunting!!" Well.. Utility, decide what's best for the group.

    New Moon:
    Has the same cooldown and three charges but with less damage, but each charge grants a benefit.
    New Moon grants you spell power for 10 seconds.
    Half Moon grants you haste for 10 seconds.
    Full Moon grants you spell power and haste for 10 seconds.

    I'm not a developer, maybe I'm out of my mind my putting time to make this thread. But I love this spec and it's fantasy, and these are some changes I have been thinking about to make the Balance Druid more unique in this game.
    Most of the new baseline changes will allow players to think about their dots in particular since it should be a rewarding and do something more than just damage over time.

    Thank you so much for reading, if I made any big mistake or anything please give feedback and changes you think are good!
    I hope you enjoyed my post so far.

    /Euroguy



    OBS! The damage, cooldowns and duration on stuff should not be final by me. It can and should be changed.
    Last edited by Tyze; 2018-09-28 at 11:31 AM.

  2. #2
    Deleted
    So bringing back many talents and skills we used to have? Well, I love it!

    I would love to make New Moon baseline and keep it the way it is. Maybe have a talent to empower it the way you describe.

  3. #3
    I think its a great idea, sure i am a new balance druid main but i do love the spec and its fantasy.
    I like most of the changes you've made and i especially love the ancient guardian talent, seems like it would be a lot of fun since i love using force of nature.

  4. #4
    75% of this "rework" is just reverting balance back to what it used to be.

    I agree that with the change to starfall and the constant reworks of our resource moonkin has lost a fair amount of identity/uniqueness. Been playing moonkin since Wrath and this is by far the worst iteration of the spec in my opinion. I don't know why they decided to go the route of generator/spender resource over the way eclipse used to work. Cataclysm was by far my favorite iteration but i would take MoP or WoD as well. The standard deviation in logs showed pretty clearly that there was a massive gap in performance between people who understood the class and people who didn't. So i guess they felt the need to dumb it down.

    Unfortunately reminiscing over "the good ole' days" isn't very influential to blizzard so i doubt any of the major stuff would ever come back.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Skyepic View Post
    Been playing moonkin since Wrath and this is by far the worst iteration of the spec in my opinion.
    I think it's way better than the Legion snore-fest.

    Besides, i'd much rather have the resource mechanic than SS/SF being on CDs again. It's way more flexible that way.

    This is mostly just nostalgia with some poorly thought out ideas thrown in.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Skyepic View Post
    75% of this "rework" is just reverting balance back to what it used to be.

    I agree that with the change to starfall and the constant reworks of our resource moonkin has lost a fair amount of identity/uniqueness. Been playing moonkin since Wrath and this is by far the worst iteration of the spec in my opinion. I don't know why they decided to go the route of generator/spender resource over the way eclipse used to work. Cataclysm was by far my favorite iteration but i would take MoP or WoD as well. The standard deviation in logs showed pretty clearly that there was a massive gap in performance between people who understood the class and people who didn't. So i guess they felt the need to dumb it down.

    Unfortunately reminiscing over "the good ole' days" isn't very influential to blizzard so i doubt any of the major stuff would ever come back.
    I agree that most of my post is “a bit from each expansion”. But honestly, not a problem in my book. Balance was by many players more fun before.
    And there are players that has never even experienced a older version of Moonkin. I started playing one in WoD, but I have recently watched a lot of old stuff on YouTube and so much seems fun.

    But I understand your point. Also thanks for reply!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    I think it's way better than the Legion snore-fest.

    Besides, i'd much rather have the resource mechanic than SS/SF being on CDs again. It's way more flexible that way.

    This is mostly just nostalgia with some poorly thought out ideas thrown in.
    What makes BFA better than Legion for you? Just curious, other than the new eclipse and rework of FoE I don’t see anything.
    Last edited by Tyze; 2018-09-28 at 04:44 PM.

  7. #7
    I don't agree that build/spend is a boring mechanic. The talent tree needs a lot of work for sure but fundamentally I am fine with the way the spec works at the moment. But anyway looking past that my first criticism of this design would be that we seem to have lost all mobility except for WoE on a presumably 45 second CD?

  8. #8
    What "Rework"? This is just MoP Balance.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Lahis View Post
    What "Rework"? This is just MoP Balance.


    Well it’s not really. Its close! But it’s a rework considered how Balance works now. But definitely a lot of my inspiration is from MoP.

    Hurricane is a talent and reduces cd on Starfall
    Guided Stars came from WoD I think
    No eclipse
    Fairly sure mushrooms was a slow in mop (didn’t play Moonkin in mop)
    Shooting stars didn’t effect Starfall in mop (I think?)
    Astral Storm is new (not the worlds most exciting ability)
    Stellar flare rework is new
    Ancient Guardian is new

    But I get what you mean. Thanks for feedback
    Last edited by Tyze; 2018-09-28 at 05:01 PM.

  10. #10
    Some of the suggestions are okay, but nothing I read resolves the biggest issue I have with balance atm.

    1) Our rotation does not FEEL impactful. We have nothing that hits real hard (aka old full moon). Our fillers hit like wet noodles in the best cases.

    In fact, you actually make it worse by suggesting that they rework full moon to do LESS damage but provide a buff. I'd rather just have a hard hitting ability back; not to mention that design would simply push people to pool 3 charges and then burn all 3 at once to stack the buffs, not a fun or engaging playstyle in general.

    2) Astral Power is, right now, our only controllable burst damage. Putting star surge on a CD and giving it a proc based chance to reset is going to cause a lot of issues with controllable burst. Its also our only way to deal meaningful damage during movement; and if fights continue to be anything like current tier, we're going to be moving a lot. Some of these concerns could be resolved by giving star surge charges. Helps avoid wasted procs and still allows preparation for movement/burst. Your suggested changes to WoE wouldn't make up for this loss; its on a 45 seconds cooldown and costs you 3 (or 4?) globals for what is basically 4 lunar strikes that deal 5% increased damage each; an ability that already hits for a fairly negligible amount in most scenarios.

    (Quick supporting maffs: Lets assume LS does 5,000 damage. 3 of them is 15,000 damage. 3 with a 40% damage bonus is 7,000 damage each or 21,000 damage. So you get one "additional" LS of damage (5,000) total and an additional 333.33 (repeating of course) damage for each of the 3 lunar strikes.)

    3) I'm not opposed to having old style star fall back. Iconic and it felt impactful. Right now balance druid aoe feels pretty pathetic. It takes some effort to set up and gets absolutely blasted by dh/mage/hunter/monk near-one button aoe specs.

    4) As for shape shifting, I don't know what Blizzard can do about that. Affinity at least makes it feel like I have some power in areas other than my role. I've saved a lot of lives with a quick swift mend for 60k or throwing down a wild growth during aoe intensive fights. I don't like the idea of moving that effectiveness to a CD like it was before. If you're suggesting that we should have the benefits of every affinity base line AND get this new CD, well, that's going to be completely imbalanced.

    5) Also you didn't make any suggested changes to Star lord which I think is a bit of a mistake. That talent would be absolutely garbage with your suggested changes. The only thing that makes it "okay" right now is pooling AP and getting a quick 3 stack with like 8-9 seconds left. Resulting in approx 4-5% haste over all for a talent that isn't terribly fun to play with in the first place. If its going to stay I'd suggest allowing the duration to refresh on star surge so stacks don't fall, and just nerfing how much it gives; but that still isn't an *interesting* talent.

    While I appreciate the attempt to create a constructive thread for balance (which does need help), I think you're missing what the problem with balance is. Nothing about the rotation feels impactful or meaningful. Even if they buffed dot damage to put us as the top dps in the game, the rotation would still feel unrewarding.

    Yea, astral power isn't the most interesting resource in history, but you can look at nearly any class and say their resource is pretty unappealing. Probably the only class who has a resource that I think is nice is combo points for rogues, there is a lot of versatility in their combo point usage depending on the situation. Compare it to WW monks, who have essentially the same combo point system, and its implemented poorly because they really only have one ability that they ever dump CP with. On feral druids the CP system goes back to being fairly interesting as you have a variety of abilities that you can use again.
    Last edited by Alcsaar; 2018-09-28 at 05:33 PM.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Alcsaar View Post
    Some of the suggestions are okay, but nothing I read resolves the biggest issue I have with balance atm.

    1) Our rotation does not FEEL impactful. We have nothing that hits real hard (aka old full moon). Our fillers hit like wet noodles in the best cases.

    In fact, you actually make it worse by suggesting that they rework full moon to do LESS damage but provide a buff. I'd rather just have a hard hitting ability back; not to mention that design would simply push people to pool 3 charges and then burn all 3 at once to stack the buffs, not a fun or engaging playstyle in general.

    2) Astral Power is, right now, our only controllable burst damage. Putting star surge on a CD and giving it a proc based chance to reset is going to cause a lot of issues with controllable burst. Its also our only way to deal meaningful damage during movement; and if fights continue to be anything like current tier, we're going to be moving a lot. Some of these concerns could be resolved by giving star surge charges. Helps avoid wasted procs and still allows preparation for movement/burst. Your suggested changes to WoE wouldn't make up for this loss; its on a 45 seconds cooldown and costs you 3 (or 4?) globals for what is basically 4 lunar strikes that deal 5% increased damage each; an ability that already hits for a fairly negligible amount in most scenarios.

    (Quick supporting maffs: Lets assume LS does 5,000 damage. 3 of them is 15,000 damage. 3 with a 40% damage bonus is 7,000 damage each or 21,000 damage. So you get one "additional" LS of damage (5,000) total and an additional 333.33 (repeating of course) damage for each of the 3 lunar strikes.)

    3) I'm not opposed to having old style star fall back. Iconic and it felt impactful. Right now balance druid aoe feels pretty pathetic. It takes some effort to set up and gets absolutely blasted by dh/mage/hunter/monk near-one button aoe specs.

    4) As for shape shifting, I don't know what Blizzard can do about that. Affinity at least makes it feel like I have some power in areas other than my role. I've saved a lot of lives with a quick swift mend for 60k or throwing down a wild growth during aoe intensive fights. I don't like the idea of moving that effectiveness to a CD like it was before. If you're suggesting that we should have the benefits of every affinity base line AND get this new CD, well, that's going to be completely imbalanced.

    5) Also you didn't make any suggested changes to Star lord which I think is a bit of a mistake. That talent would be absolutely garbage with your suggested changes. The only thing that makes it "okay" right now is pooling AP and getting a quick 3 stack with like 8-9 seconds left. Resulting in approx 4-5% haste over all for a talent that isn't terribly fun to play with in the first place. If its going to stay I'd suggest allowing the duration to refresh on star surge so stacks don't fall, and just nerfing how much it gives; but that still isn't an *interesting* talent.

    While I appreciate the attempt to create a constructive thread for balance (which does need help), I think you're missing what the problem with balance is. Nothing about the rotation feels impactful or meaningful. Even if they buffed dot damage to put us as the top dps in the game, the rotation would still feel unrewarding.

    Yea, astral power isn't the most interesting resource in history, but you can look at nearly any class and say their resource is pretty unappealing. Probably the only class who has a resource that I think is nice is combo points for rogues, there is a lot of versatility in their combo point usage depending on the situation. Compare it to WW monks, who have essentially the same combo point system, and its implemented poorly because they really only have one ability that they ever dump CP with. On feral druids the CP system goes back to being fairly interesting as you have a variety of abilities that you can use again.

    This is a great post. All I can say, can't argue just wanted to say.

  12. #12
    Some nice ideas, as much as the whole astral theme isn't my thing, I do like balance. I especially like the ancient guardian idea, always wished we had some sort of spell to do with them.
    Let my cries chill the living...

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    I think it's way better than the Legion snore-fest.

    Besides, i'd much rather have the resource mechanic than SS/SF being on CDs again. It's way more flexible that way.

    This is mostly just nostalgia with some poorly thought out ideas thrown in.
    I mainly meant worst iteration at it's resource / core (AsP generator spender vs The eclipse bar). There are always going to be gripes about the kit. The eclipse bar was cool because it was unique, no other class in the game (that i can think of) had anything like. Maybe that's also why damage standard deviation was so high, cause it wasn't really possible to transition to that type of resource mechanic from another class. There are so many generator/spender classes, removing the eclipse bar stripped a lot of identity from the class.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Euroguy View Post
    This is a great post. All I can say, can't argue just wanted to say.
    Don't let it get you down. I appreciate that there are at least people attempting to compile a rework for balance. I actually rerolled because druids felt so mediocre in every aspect :/

  15. #15
    I like the new lvl 100 talents you suggested. Ancient guardian seems like fun, but instead of a "choose 1 of 3" I would just combine them all so it becomes a taunt/heal tree (remove the spell power buff component). This talent would most likely be chosen for Mythic+ runs to provide utility support for the group. For raid / easier content a balance druid would choose the Moon spells, to provide higher DPS output.

  16. #16
    what are people even saying this is just reverting balance to what it used to be

    this rework would give balance so much fucking power and utility that you might as well just replace everyone that isn't your 1 mage for int and 1 lock for cookies and gate

    like, I am incredibly for adding more active buttons to a spec and making talents baseline to add more to a spec then add new stuff in place, but holy hell this is the retarded shit that makes devs NOT listen

    treants baseline- this is probably fine, you're already stuck taking that in any content where it's remotely useful

    tier 15-
    hurricane is the obvious go to aoe talent at needing 20 ticks for permanent starfall uptime and that's fine
    but
    mushroom and warrior are both very very close to each other for bursty aoe and movement dps, there's way too much design overlap and one will always be better than the other

    tier 45 I think this is your best idea and I have a lot of thoughts about it- blizz created the current version because in the period between vanilla and wod, heart of the wild was the closest blizz had managed to make druids at all useful outside of their form as it would just be too powerful otherwise, in the current version, your off-form is actually really potent despite limited use and is really strong, it was a response to a design issue you want to restore because like a lot of the rest of this, you just want to play an overpowered loaded spec
    also, ironfur and some of the examples you give don't really work baseline because they're the spenders, but yeah it's fine to have more buttons by me, even if they are useless, but buttons that you literally can't press without being in bear form for 30s straight as a non-bear specced tank are kind of a waste to even put in a spellbook, like there's no reason to even bind a button that useless....
    I think to make it balanced, the active portion while heart of the wild is active wouldn't even be able to be much stronger than the current passive version, but I think that would be a good idea to work with, just make hotw a minor cd, like maybe a 15% effectiveness increase, but keep the passive power strong. Ironically though I think you're trying for here would just be shooting yourself in the foot as 1 class really can't just bring everything and you'll run into problems where to balance this out you either have to make always available affinities shit or hotw shit...

    healing hotw though really just doesn't fit well into the more modern limited mana healing settings though imo, then again apparently passive warlock 3k hps is fine, so w/e, feral affinity is actually all right, it might even be better dps while moving if you handle moving poorly, I think the biggest issue with the current affinities is that bear is shit because pvp exists, and heart of the wild could really help fix that though, maybe move the heart of the wild's effects a bit for each spec so alongside the 15% buff you get:
    resto- reset cd on swiftmend and wild growth, (maybe gain a nature's vigil-like effect)
    bear- fill rage bar, refresh FR
    feral- gain 5 cp

    now for the real retarded shit:
    tier(90)-
    Starfall can now get it's cooldown reset by Shooting Stars.
    also as another starfall cd reduction, are we going to have multiple starfalls stacking now? you have too many talents probably affecting starfall, and that stellar drift and astral storm both essentially cover really similar ideas of making starfall bigger without really changing when or how you use it

    as for the other talents, this just has the same issue the tier already has where the entire tier is too focused on being aoe centric while ignoring the fact that all of them are such minor gains that twin moon just dominates, I guess stellar drift has a bit more of a chance now though, being a cd, maybe you want it to be viable on ST again, that could actually make it really strong here, but as it is now, essentially you just look up which one is best and fuck off outside of weird exceptions like super spread out adds


    tier 100-
    ancients are just overpowered- this is what hotw tranq was in mop, this is why blizz eventually jumped back and cut smoke, skull, enh AG, fox, amp, dps tranq, etc.
    new moon and fury seem fine

    at the end of the day though, most of your rework is just focused on renaming buttons we press on aoe or reducing the number of which we do, which is already both pretty fun as boomkin, and

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    I think it's way better than the Legion snore-fest.

    Besides, i'd much rather have the resource mechanic than SS/SF being on CDs again. It's way more flexible that way.

    This is mostly just nostalgia with some poorly thought out ideas thrown in.
    People like a snore-fest.. why do you think BM is the most played spec in the game :P

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Euroguy View Post
    What makes BFA better than Legion for you? Just curious, other than the new eclipse and rework of FoE I don’t see anything.
    Legion was too predictable and boring. Outside of the legendary bracers, our rotation was so predetermined that you could do entire fights from memory. New Eclipse alone made it a lot more interactive. There weren't any huge changes, but the gameplay has become a lot more fluid now. We also have a bit more variation on useful talents.

    Also, while it was fun at times, i'd rather keep current Starfall than go back to WoD version. It may not be unique, but it's a lot more practical.

    That's something to keep in mind anyway: "Unique" doesn't mean good. Sometimes it's better to go with the tried and true.

    Quote Originally Posted by ryklin View Post
    this rework would give balance so much fucking power and utility that you might as well just replace everyone that isn't your 1 mage for int and 1 lock for cookies and gate
    If it did, it would get nerfed into the ground in short order. People seem to regularly forget that part. A rework of this scale would never be a direct power gain, it would be a gameplay change.

    Also, locks give candy. Mages do cookies.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    People like a snore-fest.. why do you think BM is the most played spec in the game :P
    Because even a complete moron can play a spec were a major part of your damage isn't reliant on you. They're BM because the spec is easy to solo with, not because it is boring to solo with.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Because even a complete moron can play a spec were a major part of your damage isn't reliant on you. They're BM because the spec is easy to solo with, not because it is boring to solo with.
    I don't think solo content is the reason why so many people are playing BM in Mythic raiding :P

    High performance with low effort is more like it.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by ryklin View Post
    what are people even saying this is just reverting balance to what it used to be

    this rework would give balance so much fucking power and utility that you might as well just replace everyone that isn't your 1 mage for int and 1 lock for cookies and gate

    like, I am incredibly for adding more active buttons to a spec and making talents baseline to add more to a spec then add new stuff in place, but holy hell this is the retarded shit that makes devs NOT listen

    treants baseline- this is probably fine, you're already stuck taking that in any content where it's remotely useful

    tier 15-
    hurricane is the obvious go to aoe talent at needing 20 ticks for permanent starfall uptime and that's fine
    but
    mushroom and warrior are both very very close to each other for bursty aoe and movement dps, there's way too much design overlap and one will always be better than the other

    tier 45 I think this is your best idea and I have a lot of thoughts about it- blizz created the current version because in the period between vanilla and wod, heart of the wild was the closest blizz had managed to make druids at all useful outside of their form as it would just be too powerful otherwise, in the current version, your off-form is actually really potent despite limited use and is really strong, it was a response to a design issue you want to restore because like a lot of the rest of this, you just want to play an overpowered loaded spec
    also, ironfur and some of the examples you give don't really work baseline because they're the spenders, but yeah it's fine to have more buttons by me, even if they are useless, but buttons that you literally can't press without being in bear form for 30s straight as a non-bear specced tank are kind of a waste to even put in a spellbook, like there's no reason to even bind a button that useless....
    I think to make it balanced, the active portion while heart of the wild is active wouldn't even be able to be much stronger than the current passive version, but I think that would be a good idea to work with, just make hotw a minor cd, like maybe a 15% effectiveness increase, but keep the passive power strong. Ironically though I think you're trying for here would just be shooting yourself in the foot as 1 class really can't just bring everything and you'll run into problems where to balance this out you either have to make always available affinities shit or hotw shit...

    healing hotw though really just doesn't fit well into the more modern limited mana healing settings though imo, then again apparently passive warlock 3k hps is fine, so w/e, feral affinity is actually all right, it might even be better dps while moving if you handle moving poorly, I think the biggest issue with the current affinities is that bear is shit because pvp exists, and heart of the wild could really help fix that though, maybe move the heart of the wild's effects a bit for each spec so alongside the 15% buff you get:
    resto- reset cd on swiftmend and wild growth, (maybe gain a nature's vigil-like effect)
    bear- fill rage bar, refresh FR
    feral- gain 5 cp

    now for the real retarded shit:
    tier(90)-
    Starfall can now get it's cooldown reset by Shooting Stars.
    also as another starfall cd reduction, are we going to have multiple starfalls stacking now? you have too many talents probably affecting starfall, and that stellar drift and astral storm both essentially cover really similar ideas of making starfall bigger without really changing when or how you use it

    as for the other talents, this just has the same issue the tier already has where the entire tier is too focused on being aoe centric while ignoring the fact that all of them are such minor gains that twin moon just dominates, I guess stellar drift has a bit more of a chance now though, being a cd, maybe you want it to be viable on ST again, that could actually make it really strong here, but as it is now, essentially you just look up which one is best and fuck off outside of weird exceptions like super spread out adds


    tier 100-
    ancients are just overpowered- this is what hotw tranq was in mop, this is why blizz eventually jumped back and cut smoke, skull, enh AG, fox, amp, dps tranq, etc.
    new moon and fury seem fine

    at the end of the day though, most of your rework is just focused on renaming buttons we press on aoe or reducing the number of which we do, which is already both pretty fun as boomkin, and


    Everything is probably overpowered, which is why I wrote The damage, cooldowns and duration on stuff should not be final by me. It can and should be changed.
    I know your post wasn't meant to target me in a way, but I want to explain that all I do is care about the Balance Druid and I feel that it's going further down a hill from each expansion. This is just some ideas I had, I hope Blizzard can see that if players write disappointment they can come up with a conclusion to change the spec.
    If the player base is disappointed that is..

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