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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Kathranis View Post
    Technically four card types: minions, spells, weapons, and heroes. Secrets and quests also function pretty uniquely compared to other spells.
    Weapon and heroes are both so rare that they don't really count as a card type. They are also class limited, making them even more difficult to classify.

    MTG gives every card a type and sub type intentionally, because those things have a specific function in the game. You get:

    Land
    Spells

    Which then break down into:

    Land - basic, non basic.

    Spells - Instant, Sorcery, Enchantment, Artifact, Creature, Equipment, Planeswalker, ect (I am forgetting some).

    Then there are cards that say 'destory target Enchantment' which are typically available only to white or green, making white and green the colors to counter enchantments. Similarly, Green and red would be the colors to counter artifacts and equipment, and also land (yes, you can build decks that focus on land destruction, giggle). Hearthstone doesn't have mechanics like this. While some classes get some kinds of mechanics, there aren't enough specific card types to have any sort of a meta/counter meta balance. Which is why you see such rampant imbalance. Only real counter to anything here is being faster at building board than opponent or better at leveling it. Which any class can do.

    Yay for homogenized strategies! On a more serious note, one of the best parts of a card game is decks building. When I play MTG, I spend a lot of time building decks and playing them, for all formats. When an idea strikes me, I will sit and play with it for hours until I make it viable or it loses novelty. I carry anywhere from 3-6 decks with me to play at events, usually have another dozen in different stages of being built, laying around at home. Each time a set comes out, I spent a lot of time revamping decks to accommodate changes in the meta (every 4 months). I spend time trading, selling, and buying singles, giving the game many avenues for play, even when you aren't actually playing your decks.

    When I play hearthstone, I literally have 4 decks I pick from. One of them is a basic deck just for standard (gets lulz every time). The other three are wild decks. I play them til Blizzard hotfixes a card to break its function in whatever absurd combo someone found and won a lot with. If my deck loses enough functionality from a hotfix, I'll dust all the cards and try something else. Outside of that, when new cards come out, I'll craft the ones that help my deck (less than 10 cards usually) and then I'll play for a bit til I get bored.

    I don't get any inspiration from this game, not to deck build, not to seek out cards via trade, or even to buy/sell. Blizzard doesn't allow trading, buying or selling, and the scope of the game is so shallow I can't build more than 3 unique decks at a time anyway. Decks are so similar it's difficult to have an original idea, much less get enough viable cards together to play it, without it getting nerfed because this game doesn't handle combo well at all (there aren't any real counters), which is a side effect of having non interactive turn based play. I can't interrupt anything you do, I just have to wait for it to be over and hope you don't use something else to bait my secrets. This removes roughly 50% of the game, because of all the interesting things I could do in response to your actions on your turn, none of them are possible. Except sitting. And waiting to find out if you're dumb enough to fall for a secret or not.

    Not intuitive. Not even remotely clever play. Secrets should have been a cycle of cards added during an expansion to give some flavor to each class. Every class should have some sort of interrupt available, baseline. This is how you create play/counter play. I've said this from the beginning. Hearthstone is fun, until you realize combo decks get the nerf hammer EVERY DAMN TIME and the rest of the meta is just fielding obnoxious minions in hopes for an easy win or a concession. Games usually come down to who runs out of threats or answers to threats on the following turn. When they don't, Blizzard usually steps in and nerfs whatever combo wins differently.

    And thus, lies the inherent differences between MTG and Hearthstone. MTG is rock < paper < scissors of combo, control, and aggro type decks. There is a balance struck between the 3 main deck types. Combo players are celebrated and encouraged because combo is the one thing that looks different between each meta, fueled by expansion specific cards that rotate. Whereas in Hearthstone, you are allowed to combo in aggro or control decks, but not with anything else. First infinite combo? Yeah, lets limit shudderwock to 20 battlecries. And Alter an uncommon to break the effect. First combo kill? Let's remove Charge from Patches. And nerf Quest effect to 6 cards instead of 5, and also 4/4 minions instead of 5/5.

    Because when you combo out you're not supposed to win... You're just supposed to do something big and let your opponent have a chance to respond with a whole turn before you can do anything with it.

    Just 2 examples of the best combo decks getting nerfed because combo.

  2. #122
    I wanted the option to play magic online for a long time, the existing versions were far from good or too expensive so that was never an option. For that reason I played hearthstone, and over the years grew to enjoy it, and now I must say that both games are fun, they are different, but I enjoy them both.

    Recently I have decided to give up on one of those games, my choice was hearthstone, for the reason that it is extremelly difficult to build a deck. I mean if money is not a problem for you, then both games are the same, but the money I have to spend on games is limited and controlled so I play these games for free, sometimes I might spend a bit, but its mostly just so I can give something back. Considering this Magic is the obvious choice, by the time you are able to craft a Legendary on Hearthstone you can pretty much build an entire top deck on Magic, and without disenchanting a single card, which means that you never have to worry about disenchanting something to craft again, I am sure it happened to all of us and it feels like shit. The only problem with Magic are the lands, but once you have them crafted you never have to craft them again, even when they rotate out you can will most likely be able to use them once they are eddited again so it gets pretty easy and fast to build decks.

    Basically the question is: do you have a lot of money to spend on the game? If not, Magic is the game for you.

  3. #123
    Immortal jackofwind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nephys View Post
    I wanted the option to play magic online for a long time, the existing versions were far from good or too expensive so that was never an option. For that reason I played hearthstone, and over the years grew to enjoy it, and now I must say that both games are fun, they are different, but I enjoy them both.

    Recently I have decided to give up on one of those games, my choice was hearthstone, for the reason that it is extremelly difficult to build a deck. I mean if money is not a problem for you, then both games are the same, but the money I have to spend on games is limited and controlled so I play these games for free, sometimes I might spend a bit, but its mostly just so I can give something back. Considering this Magic is the obvious choice, by the time you are able to craft a Legendary on Hearthstone you can pretty much build an entire top deck on Magic, and without disenchanting a single card, which means that you never have to worry about disenchanting something to craft again, I am sure it happened to all of us and it feels like shit. The only problem with Magic are the lands, but once you have them crafted you never have to craft them again, even when they rotate out you can will most likely be able to use them once they are eddited again so it gets pretty easy and fast to build decks.

    Basically the question is: do you have a lot of money to spend on the game? If not, Magic is the game for you.
    I've never spent a dime on MTGA and have had multiple top-tier competitive decks. There are always inexpensive deck options out there, especially mono red or mono white.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Because fuck you, that's why.

  4. #124
    Magic - every second game i'm mana screwed or my opponent is. Monor Red drawing 6 lands? Freewin. MonoRed drawing 2-4 lands ez loss. A LOT of mana fixing is needed. Also the mulligan rules are so freaky bad. It's crazy.

    Hearthstone on the other hand is lacking some kind of depth, but really 90% of magic games are simpler than hearthstone. So after playing mtga for about 7 months i went back to hearhstone. Beeing mana screwd nearly every game feels so extremly bad. I cant handle that.

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    Magic - every second game i'm mana screwed or my opponent is. Monor Red drawing 6 lands? Freewin. MonoRed drawing 2-4 lands ez loss. A LOT of mana fixing is needed. Also the mulligan rules are so freaky bad. It's crazy.

    Hearthstone on the other hand is lacking some kind of depth, but really 90% of magic games are simpler than hearthstone. So after playing mtga for about 7 months i went back to hearhstone. Beeing mana screwd nearly every game feels so extremly bad. I cant handle that.
    There are decks/cards you can play that easily fix that. You're not limited to 1 deck.
    Just don't reply to me. Please. If you can help it.

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    Hearthstone on the other hand is lacking some kind of depth, but really 90% of magic games are simpler than hearthstone. So after playing mtga for about 7 months i went back to hearhstone. Beeing mana screwd nearly every game feels so extremly bad. I cant handle that.
    Indeed.

    This is the (apparently unpopular) fact about the two games that I've said as well.

    MtG has a vastly higher potential cap on depth, but a vanishingly tiny fraction of games actually approach it. While Hearthstone has a much lower potential cap, but you approach that cap far more often.

  7. #127
    Someone isn't mana screwed in 90% of games. I don't know what to say besides that. It just isn't true.

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by Mahourai View Post
    Someone isn't mana screwed in 90% of games. I don't know what to say besides that. It just isn't true.
    Yea I was going to say the same. I think it's probably something like a cognitive bias where when it happens you remember it.

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by jackofwind View Post
    I've never spent a dime on MTGA and have had multiple top-tier competitive decks. There are always inexpensive deck options out there, especially mono red or mono white.
    I tried MtGA a few weeks ago, and I won with the basic mono white we gain as beginners against a player with an advanced deck (he did not have anymore remove-cards to kill my last archangel, and this archangel is simply a beast if you know who he is ).

    As for the topic at hand, HS is really much more simple to me (no hero card with a wall of text like in MTGA), much more accessible for me (admitely I am not prepared to learn once again another game this moment on, althought I played the original MTG).

    But I am not a fan of HS either, too cheesy (caricatural) and I played it a lot, to each its own.

  10. #130
    Immortal Kathranis's Avatar
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    I enjoyed MTGA for the time I played it, but I think I've pretty much fallen off after the last two expansions. The card pool is just so large, you need so many duplicates of each card, and you have so little control over what cards you do get.


    It's still a great game, but I think the biggest drawback is the number of games that are determined by mana screw or mana flood, either for you or your opponent, and those aren't fun, regardless of whether your win or lose. I'm not sure how often this happens, but it's certainly significant enough to become frustrating, especially if it happens back-to-back.

    I think probably the biggest strength Hearthstone has over MTG, apart from a generally more streamlined play experience, is that due to smaller deck size and the guaranteed mana curve, win or lose, you're almost always going to be able to at least execute the strategy of your deck. There are a lot of games in MTG where you're just shit out of luck, and have to either hope for you or your opponent to draw poorly for a few turns.


    One thing I can say I definitely like about MTG, however, is that you can definitely jump in with just the starter decks, pauper decks, etc., and the matchmaking is pretty decent, and you'll have a fun time getting matched against people with similar deck strength.

    I kind of wish it would just have a mode that revolves entirely around preconstructed decks, so that you don't have to worry about investing so much in a collection for the sake of deckbuilding.
    Last edited by Kathranis; 2019-07-28 at 10:12 AM.

  11. #131
    Warhammer Champions is the most fun.

  12. #132
    Keyboard Turner Wcolins's Avatar
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    Actually, I am playing this game from the past few weeks. Tier 1 is tough now compared to others.

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