View Poll Results: Will Guardians receive any changes at all in the 8.1 patch?

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  • Yes

    53 36.55%
  • No

    92 63.45%

Thread: Guardian in 8.1

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  1. #21
    I would like to see a big rework on guardian & moonkin

    But i think it's just a dream

  2. #22
    I want RotS back, the slow on Thrash and no GCD on FR. The Guardian issues have been mentioned since Alpha, but still no bluepost yet. Strange...

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by slime View Post
    Is bear the best tank with a healer? Because it feels the worst without one.
    Unfortunately, no. What you're looking for is a Brewmaster Monk.
    Quote Originally Posted by SirKickBan View Post
    Making mechanics players will enjoy? That's not the job of the audience, or the critics, that's the game developer's job.

    That would be like expecting movie critics to submit a new script for the movie fixing all its problems alongside their review.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by slime View Post
    Is bear the best tank with a healer? Because it feels the worst without one.
    Prot Warriors may fight over this one, but it's a question worth answering, and one that kind of hints at the problem with druids in general when it comes to balancing.

    First and foremost, I suppose defining how much attention a tank needs is in order, and I'd actually lump it as a tank utility. The reason I'd call it utility is that I define utility as abilities or having the capacity to make your group's life easier. From the healing perspective, if a healer can ignore you or not really pay attention to you, it makes the group's life easier because the healer can either DPS more or focus more on keeping the group alive. This becomes very important when we're talking about cutting edge or really difficult content for your group.

    Now, I don't expect everyone to agree with me that it's a tank utility, but it certainly should be important in deciding how the rest of the tank's package works. For example, if a tank really needs a lot more attention from the healer than other tank classes, ideally that tank should be able to have other utility spells/abilities to make other aspects of encounters easier. The reverse is true, as well: if a tank never or rarely needs healers to worry about them, they shouldn't need extra utility on top of that as you risk making that tank really overpowered.

    I'd point to MoU as an in-game example for bears: all that ability did was make us really easy to heal in most scenarios in Legion when it came to magic damage, but we really didn't bring that much more to the table outside of Stampeding Roar and being tanky to physical damage. Now the raiding environment made that ability OP due to how the content was designed with our bear package, but for the first time ever, Guardians were on par with blood DK's in M+/CM content in terms of representation at the hardest difficulty levels. But why? The reason this was the case was because bears were easier to heal despite not having any other sexy utility that was brought by BDK's and VDH's in the form of CCs/immunities/grips/group utility... and once you got rid of MoU, bears disappeared almost completely from the top M+ scene because our big (and pretty much only) utility to groups was being able to tank damage extremely well.

    Fast forward to today, and we're pretty much in the same scenario as we were post-MoU removal, although I'd argue in a much weaker state due to the loss of our artifact and adjustments to the base package. There's a reason why BDK's and VDH's completely dominate M+ top-end keys, and it's because they not only bring group utility in the form of CC's/immunities/grips/etc. but also they are arguably easier to heal due to their current design and ability to respond to damaging situations. If I had to make an adjustment, I wouldn't necessarily nerf the other tanks, I'd buff bears to be the de facto mitigation machine as compensation for not bringing anything else to the table.
    Last edited by exochaft; 2018-10-03 at 07:29 PM.
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  5. #25
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    Blizzard has seemed hesitant to announce anything about 8.1 in the past week or two. Is there still a PTR going?
    Quote Originally Posted by SirKickBan View Post
    Making mechanics players will enjoy? That's not the job of the audience, or the critics, that's the game developer's job.

    That would be like expecting movie critics to submit a new script for the movie fixing all its problems alongside their review.

  6. #26
    At this point, I think that all tanks should be given the same basic tools. Mitagation tanks need sustain for m+, and heal tanks need mitagation for raiding. Would be easy to just have a talent row for extra mitagation options, and then what currently defines the style of tank is their base package, but still maintains the option to adjust based on types of content.

    With that basic chunk of design philosophy, balancing the different tanks becomes much easier to do, as the difference between each one should ideally be what utility they offer and play style. Obviously there will still be weaker and stronger tanks, but at the same time it is less likely for as much problems as we currently see with Guardian and Prot Warrior, whom due to design require more attention from healers in m+. Even if they were stronger in their mitagation to the point they were top raiding specs, they would still be weaker in an m+ environment. The opposite can be said for Vengeance as well, not sure about how well Blood performs in raids though.

  7. #27
    Ion just said they plan to buff guardians and prot warriors ...

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Zoraxe View Post
    Getting outdps'd by the priest & druid healers in our heroic runs at the moment so would defiantly like to see a ~20% dps buff. generally sit around 6.5-7k on most raid bosses and the other tank (monk) is always around 8.5-9k. He pulls agro at least once a fight without taunting and nothing i can do about it besides spam taunt. FR off GCD would be great & return it to % of damage taken over last 5 secs , DK bloodstrike gets that so seems reasonable we can as well. Chuck in a slow on thrash even just 30% and we will be in a good spot.
    The other problem with Frenzied Regen is the huge cooldown it's on. A Blood DK's Death Strike isn't on any sort of cooldown but more so need's Runic Power. Would be cool if they made frenzied regen somewhat similar to Blood DK's mitigation abilities and by that I mean take it off cooldown and make it useable through using rage similar to a Blood DK's Deathstrike using Runic power. That would be sick.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abitou View Post
    Ion just said they plan to buff guardians and prot warriors ...
    He specifically mentioned tuning as the issue for Bears, this leaves me worried that we will see % Buffs to abilities which while nice do not actually address the state of the spec. Better numbers won't increase the population of Bears in end game content, the lack of utility in both raids and M + is a real problem that "tuning" just doesn't address.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Extremeties View Post
    The other problem with Frenzied Regen is the huge cooldown it's on. A Blood DK's Death Strike isn't on any sort of cooldown but more so need's Runic Power. Would be cool if they made frenzied regen somewhat similar to Blood DK's mitigation abilities and by that I mean take it off cooldown and make it useable through using rage similar to a Blood DK's Deathstrike using Runic power. That would be sick.
    Even sadder is that it does cost rage, miniscule (10)but still costs rage and has a long CD.
    Ideally no one has ever hit the level cap of the last expansion, looked at their dungeon blues, and thought "I win."

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  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuckadoodle View Post
    He specifically mentioned tuning as the issue for Bears, this leaves me worried that we will see % Buffs to abilities which while nice do not actually address the state of the spec. Better numbers won't increase the population of Bears in end game content, the lack of utility in both raids and M + is a real problem that "tuning" just doesn't address.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Even sadder is that it does cost rage, miniscule (10)but still costs rage and has a long CD.
    Yeah pretty shitty as is. Would be nice if they made it cost like 50/60 rage and heal for a % of the dmg taken similar to a DK's Deathstrike on no cooldown. That change alone would make me play my Bear again

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Extremeties View Post
    Yeah pretty shitty as is. Would be nice if they made it cost like 50/60 rage and heal for a % of the dmg taken similar to a DK's Deathstrike on no cooldown. That change alone would make me play my Bear again
    We had this "heal for dmg taken in last 5secs" in Legion and it needed an addon to tell you how much the heal will be.. This was just shit.

    Just lower the FR CD to 10 or 15 secs, let us use our heal spells in bear form and we would be god-like.

  12. #32
    New talent :

    Subterfuge : You keep your actual HP & Armor for 8 seconds after switching out of bear form. Can only be used once every 25 seconds

    This will allow us to use cat form for kitting, boomkin for dps & normal form for healing without taking big damage.

    Too good to be true.

  13. #33
    Dash really needs to work better for guardian imo

  14. #34
    @Thaledwyn
    You don’t need an addon to know how to use a heal like in Legion. You don’t need to know the amount to know that you should use the ability after taking a lot of damage. Keep in mindnthis mechanic still exists for DH with soul fragment healing.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by exochaft View Post
    I have mixed feelings when it comes to the amount of healing FR provides, as the new amount is lackluster in PvE but immensely better in PvP
    Well mine heals for 50% max HP with the talent and the azerite trait x2. so it does heal really good, problem is it should be off GCD and have no rage cost IMO.
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  16. #36
    You heard it in the interview. It's a numbers issue.
    So expect 15% more life and/or armor on the PTR, which then gets reduced to 10% when the patch goes live.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by jSewell View Post
    Dash really needs to work better for guardian imo
    Ya, they should make it so Dashing decreases damage taken when you are Guardian in Cat form.
    “If you don't believe me that is too damn bad!”

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuckadoodle View Post
    He specifically mentioned tuning as the issue for Bears, this leaves me worried that we will see % Buffs to abilities which while nice do not actually address the state of the spec. Better numbers won't increase the population of Bears in end game content, the lack of utility in both raids and M + is a real problem that "tuning" just doesn't address.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Even sadder is that it does cost rage, miniscule (10)but still costs rage and has a long CD.
    likely what will happen is that they will fix some of the issues but not make warrior or bear any more wanted in m+ or raiding. getting past the stigma of being a "bad" class at the start of an xpac is not easy.

    also, they are likely to give bears buffs but not enough to make anyone happy. jut more viable.

  19. #39
    Bring back Fairy fire to silence on range would be a small step in the right direction.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Puri View Post
    You heard it in the interview. It's a numbers issue.
    So expect 15% more life and/or armor on the PTR, which then gets reduced to 10% when the patch goes live.
    I really hope it'll be more than just buffing numbers. Gameplay itself I know is a huge complaint to a lot of Bear Druids. I hope they rework Frenzied Regen. They shafted the shit out of it I think more than any ability in the Guardian Druids repertoire

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by MookieRah View Post
    @Thaledwyn
    You don’t need an addon to know how to use a heal like in Legion. You don’t need to know the amount to know that you should use the ability after taking a lot of damage. Keep in mindnthis mechanic still exists for DH with soul fragment healing.
    And the soul fragment healing was gutted beyond belief.

    I feel the DH's dmg will be nerfed some but I hope they make up for it with some more survivability stuff. For starters, add another charge of Spikes. DH's have the lowest uptime of active mitigation of any tank and that ain't good being in leather armor. MOST IMPORTANTLY - Fix the god damn soul fragment collision issues in corridor dungeons like Tol Dagor or Waycrest. Most of the time I can't use any of my soul fragment consuming abilities because the fragments consume themself cause of the fuckin way they coded them to either disappear in walls or automatically consume them. That is hurting my DH bigtime in those dungeons. I can't heal myself or deal dmg because of it. To me its borderline game breaking for the DH unable to use your main abilities.
    Last edited by Extremeties; 2018-10-12 at 05:38 PM.

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