View Poll Results: Will Guardians receive any changes at all in the 8.1 patch?

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  • Yes

    54 36.49%
  • No

    94 63.51%

Thread: Guardian in 8.1

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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Marrilaife View Post
    Tbh the necessity of grip depends on dungeon and affixes. It's extremely useful on sanguine weeks and dungeons where there are ranged physical mobs (archers, gunners) you can't just silence / interrupt to get into melee, and for mobs like the king's rest miniboss that can get his lightning interrupted by grip, but not silences.

    So evaluate per dungeon basis, if you prefer other tank over dk just take them for dungeons that don't 100% require mass grip. Also depends how big pulls are you making. Not every group is gonna do MDI deathballs that require mass grip and perfect kiting skills. In some cases people think they need blood dk (or frost mage, or rogue, etc.) and in the end they don't even utilize the strats that rely on these classes.
    None of the dungeons require mass grip, or grip, but it's a quality of life and convenience thing, there's tons of places you can CAN easily do multiple groups that aren't feasible for other tanks to round up without organised effort. There's also a lot of immune to stun/interupt/pushback mobs that grip still works on.

    On a different track, thinking about it pisses me off again but DK can also just dump there death and decay on the ground for a big slow but they removed it from thrash.

    If bears had kept rage of the sleeper and thrash slow into current content they'd be fine but not OP.

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by CenariusTheForestLord View Post
    It is part of our toolkit. You simple ursol's vortex typhoon, get out of bear form, dispell, get back into bearform and start from 0 rage.
    It is clearly usable.
    We're supposed to be locked into two talent choices, typhoon and ursol, use them both, and lose all rage and extra armor from IF, just to dispel? When we already have the least amount of utility together with maybe warrior? C'mon man.

    I only tested out the new patch for one day before my subscription ended, and I'll probably pick the game up again before the new raid, but I'm not really liking the Ursol change. For all of Legion I missed Charge since the Stampeding Roar talent was mandatory. It felt so good to have it back. Ursol is a nice tool to have, and I'll pick it over charge for M+ and some raid encounters, but charge was a very important tool in so many situations.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rioo View Post
    When we already have the least amount of utility together with maybe warrior?
    Warriors have Rally and Battle Shout. Spell reflect and mobility tools, on top of higher damage output. We're definitely on a tier below.

    (Pretty sure Cenarius was being sarcastic, by the way.)

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by CenariusTheForestLord View Post
    It is part of our toolkit. You simple ursol's vortex typhoon, get out of bear form, dispell, get back into bearform and start from 0 rage.
    It is clearly usable.
    I still don't quite get how Blizz is alright with this, maybe it's for PvP reasons? Honestly, my favorite expansion in terms of bear utility was MoP and our HotW/DoC/NV talent row. The ironic part is that bears were able to cast instant Healing Touch in bear form with procs from DoC, and HotW allowed us to cast Rejuv on people in bear form (assuming we were done casting Tranq and Hurricane ), and NV was a nice damage-to-heal conversion. Yeah, we couldn't dispel, but we could heal the crap out of people and ourselves. That was a fun utility to have and worked out well in raids.

    Perhaps that's the most annoying part about bear right now: Blizz has gotten it right in the past several times, and instead of using what works and tuning it for the expansion and/or building upon it, they've scrapped so many aspects of what made bears work and unique in favor of... nothing? I can't say flavor or class identity or tank niche, because I fail to see any correlation between those identifiers and the state of bear right now.
    “Society is endangered not by the great profligacy of a few, but by the laxity of morals amongst all.”
    “It's not an endlessly expanding list of rights — the 'right' to education, the 'right' to health care, the 'right' to food and housing. That's not freedom, that's dependency. Those aren't rights, those are the rations of slavery — hay and a barn for human cattle.”
    ― Alexis de Tocqueville

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by exochaft View Post
    I still don't quite get how Blizz is alright with this, maybe it's for PvP reasons? Honestly, my favorite expansion in terms of bear utility was MoP and our HotW/DoC/NV talent row. The ironic part is that bears were able to cast instant Healing Touch in bear form with procs from DoC, and HotW allowed us to cast Rejuv on people in bear form (assuming we were done casting Tranq and Hurricane ), and NV was a nice damage-to-heal conversion. Yeah, we couldn't dispel, but we could heal the crap out of people and ourselves. That was a fun utility to have and worked out well in raids.

    Perhaps that's the most annoying part about bear right now: Blizz has gotten it right in the past several times, and instead of using what works and tuning it for the expansion and/or building upon it, they've scrapped so many aspects of what made bears work and unique in favor of... nothing? I can't say flavor or class identity or tank niche, because I fail to see any correlation between those identifiers and the state of bear right now.
    Our utility was leaps and bounds better BEFORE MoP. Yeah, things went too far in Cata because they made it too easy to spec into all the good talents for both bear and cat at the same time, but even before then we were able to perform both roles with one spec and still had a full healing/cc toolkit. Yeah you had to shift to use that utility, but it was there and good druids knew how to use it. Today it's like we're not even druids anymore, you're either feral or you're guardian and you have only have access to those abilities. And despite the loss of that hybridity, Blizz is still essentially penalizing druid specs with a lack of utility.

  6. #126
    I think one of the biggest issues for guardian is that it doesn't excel at anything compared to the other tanks.

    DK is king at self sustain, magic mitigation. and mob stacking

    Monk is king at surviving large hits and kiting

    Prot war is king at physical mitigation and tank dps

    VDH is king at mobility, 5 man utility

    Paladin is king of interrupts and offhealing


    Meanwhile Guardian is just pretty good at soaking physical damage and has a semi unique speed boost.

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Arawrabearialis View Post
    Our utility was leaps and bounds better BEFORE MoP. Yeah, things went too far in Cata because they made it too easy to spec into all the good talents for both bear and cat at the same time, but even before then we were able to perform both roles with one spec and still had a full healing/cc toolkit. Yeah you had to shift to use that utility, but it was there and good druids knew how to use it. Today it's like we're not even druids anymore, you're either feral or you're guardian and you have only have access to those abilities. And despite the loss of that hybridity, Blizz is still essentially penalizing druid specs with a lack of utility.
    i love how people use druids having 4 specs are a good thing when all it did was make both feral and guardian less appealing to play. being a bear in cata was great. being able to swap mid fight between tanking and dpsing felt great.

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by Arawrabearialis View Post
    Our utility was leaps and bounds better BEFORE MoP. Yeah, things went too far in Cata because they made it too easy to spec into all the good talents for both bear and cat at the same time, but even before then we were able to perform both roles with one spec and still had a full healing/cc toolkit. Yeah you had to shift to use that utility, but it was there and good druids knew how to use it. Today it's like we're not even druids anymore, you're either feral or you're guardian and you have only have access to those abilities. And despite the loss of that hybridity, Blizz is still essentially penalizing druid specs with a lack of utility.
    I think that depends on what utility you want and how you want to execute it, which everyone will have their own opinion. I liked MoP because the off-healing utility of bears at the time could almost all be used while actively tanking without a need to shift to caster (HotW + Tranq was the obvious outlying ability), and you had a choices when it came to how to execute said utility. While I used it to the fullest, I wasn't a big fan of the bearcatting because of the inherent balancing issues that would and always did pop up that made either kittens or bears (or both) suffer.

    I think under our current model of how Feral and Guardian are separate, they could actually make bearcatting balanced without penalizing Feral if they wanted (Feral affinity does this to some degree). Regardless, when it comes to any utility as the game is designed now, I prefer all my utility to be usable while remaining in Bear Form, or not penalized for having to leave Bear Form to use it. Obviously, the former is much easier to implement than the latter with how the game and encounters/content are designed. However, I believe you can maintain both a hybrid feel and while making abilities usable in Bear Form through various means, as I think what makes us a hybrid isn't necessarily the form you take but the abilities/role you use or take on... although there are solutions to making forms take on the appearance of said role.
    “Society is endangered not by the great profligacy of a few, but by the laxity of morals amongst all.”
    “It's not an endlessly expanding list of rights — the 'right' to education, the 'right' to health care, the 'right' to food and housing. That's not freedom, that's dependency. Those aren't rights, those are the rations of slavery — hay and a barn for human cattle.”
    ― Alexis de Tocqueville

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by dcc626 View Post
    i love how people use druids having 4 specs are a good thing when all it did was make both feral and guardian less appealing to play. being a bear in cata was great. being able to swap mid fight between tanking and dpsing felt great.
    Making guardian a standalone spec made us go from "always the off-tank never the bride" to a legit useful main tank.
    Then they started removing all the unique interspec abilities and utility, while still maintaining a hybrid tax on class balance.
    Then they made us OP without realizing it and in a reflex removed everything from the class that made it fun and interactive.
    Then they nerf tank sustainability and ability to survive alone, but forget it on some other specs.
    Suddenly they become OP. Who would have guessed.

    EDIT: I don't mean we were the most fun and interactive before BFA. But I think you guys know what I mean. I think I liked before the spec split more. But maybe that's nostalgia. I just miss our interspec abilities and gimmicks they gave us after the split. RIP HOTW. RIP Tranq. RIP Symbiosis.
    Last edited by CenariusTheForestLord; 2018-12-31 at 05:56 PM.

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