1. #1

    how do I be a better TC in rbgs?

    Any help would be appreciated. How do I do it effectively where I can see the enemy team dying? Some times I call and enemies don't seem to die.

    I have already downloaded BGE.

  2. #2
    Deleted
    You have to know what your win conditions are : do you plan on rotting the team? do you plan on bursting someone? those choices rely heavily on your team comp

    You also have to know what targets are the best , for example a disc priest is an excellent tank, since his cooldowns can he applied on himself, so are druids when barkskin is up, however shamans and paladins and monks aren't the best when focused, you can ask for cross CC on healers (mages , locks, and boomies are good for that, or you can play DK and grip people on your priest and he fears them). Druid's main weakness is target switching on people without hots, paladins can go down quickly if they put sac, and monks are toast if cocoon is on CD (not even talking about rshams in rbg post nerf, they suck)

    Make countdowns (switch in 3, 2 , 1) when you focus someone as well, some classes can't switch instantly (aff locks, destro, mages) . You can also keep track of defensives on healers, a druid stunned without barkskin is an easy target if you've got a mage with klepto for his hots.

    You also have to pay attention to the positionning of your teammates, if you are going too deep (i assume you're a warrior), your team probably wont follow you

    As a last note , perhaps sometimes your goal is just to stall, if you have a mage and a rogue in defense, your win condition may be ninja capping points while you're stalling, in which case your call is to peel off your healers

  3. #3
    Mechagnome Rehija's Avatar
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    Little additions:

    Make sure your target doesnt have the insignia ready when you call for a nuke. Try to get the enemy team to pop defenses for one target, then switch and call a nuke, its never a good idea ( for example ) to let your team pop offensive cooldowns into a resto Drood in Bear form with Painsup up

    Call out for knockbacks if available, even if they arent lethal. A good example is the Blacksmith were a knocked enemy healer can make a big difference. A good knockback can remove said enemy healer for 10 to 20 seconds out of the fight without the need to kill him.

    Always remember your team to keep antitap up if you fight near a flag, it happens to often that the damage dealers start to tunnelvision. I cant count how often i called a tap bcs. i always try to get enemy stealth classes into target when im defending just to know were they are.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Lehaduhams View Post
    You have to know what your win conditions are : do you plan on rotting the team? do you plan on bursting someone? those choices rely heavily on your team comp

    You also have to know what targets are the best , for example a disc priest is an excellent tank, since his cooldowns can he applied on himself, so are druids when barkskin is up, however shamans and paladins and monks aren't the best when focused, you can ask for cross CC on healers (mages , locks, and boomies are good for that, or you can play DK and grip people on your priest and he fears them). Druid's main weakness is target switching on people without hots, paladins can go down quickly if they put sac, and monks are toast if cocoon is on CD (not even talking about rshams in rbg post nerf, they suck)

    Make countdowns (switch in 3, 2 , 1) when you focus someone as well, some classes can't switch instantly (aff locks, destro, mages) . You can also keep track of defensives on healers, a druid stunned without barkskin is an easy target if you've got a mage with klepto for his hots.

    You also have to pay attention to the positionning of your teammates, if you are going too deep (i assume you're a warrior), your team probably wont follow you

    As a last note , perhaps sometimes your goal is just to stall, if you have a mage and a rogue in defense, your win condition may be ninja capping points while you're stalling, in which case your call is to peel off your healers
    Just curious, how is the state of mistweavers in rbgs? I am one, and haven't touched rbgs since before legion.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Lehaduhams View Post
    You have to know what your win conditions are : do you plan on rotting the team? do you plan on bursting someone? those choices rely heavily on your team comp
    Make countdowns (switch in 3, 2 , 1) when you focus someone as well, some classes can't switch instantly (aff locks, destro, mages) .
    Every single time? Let's say somebody is running around with low hp, should I still do a count down to switch, even if they might get healed up in the mean time?
    You also have to pay attention to the positionning of your teammates, if you are going too deep (i assume you're a warrior), your team probably wont follow you
    Yes I play a warrior, and this is actually one of my biggest dilemma at the beginning of team fights. The healers are usually in the back at a good distance away. So if I were to call something close the other team's healers just heal unopposed, if I try to get at their healers I overextend.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Rehija View Post
    Make sure your target doesnt have the insignia ready when you call for a nuke. Try to get the enemy team to pop defenses for one target, then switch and call a nuke, its never a good idea ( for example ) to let your team pop offensive cooldowns into a resto Drood in Bear form with Painsup up
    My plan is usually get go after squishier targets and get them to use cocoon or BoP.
    Always remember your team to keep antitap up if you fight near a flag, it happens to often that the damage dealers start to tunnelvision. I cant count how often i called a tap bcs. i always try to get enemy stealth classes into target when im defending just to know were they are.
    What do you mean by antitap?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by cface View Post
    Just curious, how is the state of mistweavers in rbgs? I am one, and haven't touched rbgs since before legion.
    The go to healer set up is usually two disc and one mw, so I would assume they are pretty good.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Rehija View Post
    Little additions:

    Make sure your target doesnt have the insignia ready when you call for a nuke. Try to get the enemy team to pop defenses for one target, then switch and call a nuke, its never a good idea ( for example ) to let your team pop offensive cooldowns into a resto Drood in Bear form with Painsup up

    Call out for knockbacks if available, even if they arent lethal. A good example is the Blacksmith were a knocked enemy healer can make a big difference. A good knockback can remove said enemy healer for 10 to 20 seconds out of the fight without the need to kill him.

    Always remember your team to keep antitap up if you fight near a flag, it happens to often that the damage dealers start to tunnelvision. I cant count how often i called a tap bcs. i always try to get enemy stealth classes into target when im defending just to know were they are.
    To expand on this, watch for the defensive cd's call targets that have none or the fewest as well as lone dps / healers out of position - If your playing the knock back game, make sure the people on your team that can root, don't root them thus making the knockback not work. There are addons that will help show what cd's are up on what targets which will help.

    Edit :

    Antitap - Where someone ideally a dps uses aoe or targeted quick (ideally instants) single target damage to interrupt someone clicking (tapping) a flag on a base or similar. Damage interrupts this, if you don't have at least 1 person who is alive who's sole job is to anti-tap then theres a good chance one of the other team will sneakily click it while no one is noticing.
    Last edited by ilik2345; 2018-10-03 at 03:41 PM.

  7. #7
    Have a look at Foxyhippo youtube. Goes in some depth about TC in RBG.

  8. #8
    Don't be hard on yourself remember that TC is not that influential on outcome
    yes its good to call targets but if the players you play with are bad nothing will die, and good players usually know what to target even without TC

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Enclave View Post
    Don't be hard on yourself remember that TC is not that influential on outcome
    yes its good to call targets but if the players you play with are bad nothing will die, and good players usually know what to target even without TC
    I have never really seen the need to target call honestly. People begging for targets I think either don't know what is going on, or want an excuse for why things are not going well. Lots of teams have a pretty heavy rot today anyway so you sometimes only have one or two people *on target*.

    I have played in coordinated groups at high MMR where targets are called and things don't die. I have been in no voice pugs at high mmr where stuff melts one by one because everyone is paying attention and on the obvious target at any given time.

    If your team is complaining because you are not calling targets well, it could be one of two things. You are either picking bad targets, or you are not being forceful/energetic enough about the target. Bad targets is pretty fluid, but you generally want to go for people that have some combination of the following:

    1.) Out of position
    2.) Easy to kill (rsham vs rdruid for example.)
    3.) Buffs/debuffs. Obviously switch off that guy at 70% health with pain sup, but maybe stay on that guy at 10% health with pain sup.
    4.) Priority targets. Things like spriests. Easy to sit,easy to shut down damage but if you leave them to be they can wreck a team. Maybe getting that one guy spinning the flag, or that one class that is carrying their healing debuff.

    If they are complaining because you are not vocal enough, then you just need to be loud and excited. People respond to frantic hyper target calls where you are sayiing who to be on consistently as well as being excited about their possibility of death.

    "Get on DK."

    "DK IS OVEREXTENDED!!!! KILL HIM HE CAN DIE!!! DK DK DK!!!! DK DIES NOW GET ON HIM!!!!"



    The biggest reason to target call honestly is to setup a kill. Look at these two examples...


    Rogue in team fight is harrasing your healers while spreading healing debuff on everyone. He just used cloak and for some reason also used dodge (macro maybe?)

    1.) "Get on the rogue, he can die"
    2.) "Rogue just cloaked, he can die, switching in 3...2...1... KILL ROGUE KILL KILL KILL"

    The rogue is a good target, but in the first example people don't have time to setup debuffs, charge up resources, setup CC on healers, etc. In the second example you give enough time for people to think about those things and it makes killing that rogue sooooooo much easier.

  10. #10
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by cface View Post
    Just curious, how is the state of mistweavers in rbgs? I am one, and haven't touched rbgs since before legion.
    They have the best ST healing in the game currently, and have some good kiting tools, but if they don't wall or cocoon before getting stunned they can get destroyed quickly. Leg sweep is a very strong deterrent for those pesky melees, so they're solid, the best combination would be MW disc resto currently or hpal/disc/resto

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrean View Post
    I have never really seen the need to target call honestly. People begging for targets I think either don't know what is going on, or want an excuse for why things are not going well.
    This is underrated.

    Top teams are playing without voice comms because they know exactly what to do.
    top guild member
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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by You are wrong View Post
    This is underrated.

    Top teams are playing without voice comms because they know exactly what to do.
    My wild guess: he's not playing with top players and wants advice because of that? Also from my experience top players don't really spend much time wiping the enemy group at all. It's mostly CC + fast base/flag.

    On the topic: Back when I first played RBG we were pretty succesful with coordinating CC on the healers before the BG even started. Our lock would e.g. fear pally, mage would poly monk etc. when we tried to kill something so they wouldn't overlap and ruin their DRs. Also count down so people have time to actually find the target and prepare their bursts.

  13. #13
    Deleted
    Your melee dps should be swapping intuitively between the healers to spread pressure and communicating the availability of burst and cc cool-downs (while everyone else is listening) so you can delete something in a swap.

    Having the entire team on one guy the entire time leads to pretty predictable gameplay, no wonder you aren't killing things even accidentally.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerovar View Post
    My wild guess: he's not playing with top players and wants advice because of that? Also from my experience top players don't really spend much time wiping the enemy group at all. It's mostly CC + fast base/flag.
    Yes, most of the time you are going after specific targets. Good teams do things like leave OOM healers alive but in combat, hold off on killing certain players so they can split the rezz timers up, only go after certain players that they need to kill in order to win the objective, etc. For example, on base maps if there are two defending a node it might be hard to CC cap on both of them. Instead of trying to wipe both of them, which takes time and gives the team time to respond, you might go for a quick kill on one so you can cc cap the second. If we are playing EotS we also might be going really hard on their DK to stop grip/knocks, etc.

    EDIT: I also wanted to say that yes, I think TC can be a good asset when you have players that are good at playing their class, but they may not have the best awareness on the map. It can also be good when you just need a way to coordinate players. The higher teams don't need that as much because most of those players have played a ton and know what is going on and what the objective is at all times. Higher teams will use most of their voice/chat bandwidth to call incs, call movement and call strategy.

    I also think with most common comps right now having everyone on the same target is actually bad. There is a lot of spread pressure comps right now which means there can be more than one target that is within kill range at any given time. I think it is better to let the players who are trying to land kills dictate what they can do instead of trying to arbitrarily force the spread pressure guys onto that target as well. Lots of times when you do land a kill that can start a wipe it is on an off target that is not getting focused because they are not getting the attention of the enemy healers.
    Last edited by Tyrean; 2018-10-04 at 05:04 PM.

  15. #15
    This is a great question that I cannot answer.

    In order from least to greatest for the difficulty of RBG roles, here's the following:

    1: Mainline dps
    2: Base Sitting
    3: Healing
    4: Strat Calling
    5: Target Calling


    I can do 1-4, but Number 5 requires lots of experience playing other classes (via alts) and arena experience also goes a long way for TC'ing in RBG's.

  16. #16
    TC'ing is an outdated concept tbh, but something that lower end groups still cling to desperately.

    Every DPS should be a target caller to some degree, and be looking for opportunities to capitalize on.

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