[PTR] Alliance and Horde Darkshore questline SPOILERS

[Deleted]

Sylvanas murdered thousands of my people, but Elune/Tyrande didn't stop her, so now I'm going to help Sylvanas murder the rest of my people.

Jesus Christ.

Pretty much. Fucking amazing story telling... Really morrally grey and just deep story telling with logical motivations

[BlakeArt]

I can agree to disagree with the lore direction that the writters decided. It's okey. But :

I can't agree with a lore that retcon everything almost every patch to suit the plot.
I can't agree with characters that act the way the script need them to act and not the way they are.
I can't agree with a lore that makes look every character in it dumb because theyr actions are illogical and only serve to move the plot.

The whole writting is forced. Almost every major decision look dumb because you can't say : Yeah, I disagree with that character decision, but I understand it. They only suit the plot, they are just puppets that play an act. It doesn't allow any immersion anymore, it's just a shit show after another praying that they will get this right and find out they never do.

I'm sorry, this is simply bad writting and nothing else. You want forsaken night elves. Okey, why not, that something we can agree or disagree about but write a compelling storyline that explains why they chose to join those who just killed them. Not just, we are dead, hail Sylvanas.

And what are we gonna do with that ? So yeah, we got Forsaken night elves but what blizzard gonna do with it, just fill out a warfront with them and that's it ? Couldn't they just fill it with some Forsaken characters ? I mean not that there is tons of them but how to find room to develop new ones if you fill the holes with characters that you'll never develop for anything else than that content.
If you develop those Night elves forsaken, you probably gonna do something more about them ? What ? A new allied race ? With a base material from the other faction ? But you constantly say that you don't want to weaken the barrier between Horde and Alliance Identity (*cough* void elves/blood elves and pandarens both sides *cough* cough*). Are you setting up that new allied race to give another horde skin allied race to the Alliance ? Hooooo... I get where you're going now...

[Koward]

I would not mind if they actually displayed that Sylvanas was using her mind-control ability (that would make more sense than sudden change in nelf characters), but they never do. That feels a bit bad to me. Nothing since WC3 reminds that she can be a little short-ranged Lich King (except maybe one or two quests in Vanilla about her ogres in Alterac).

[gcsmith]

Can we just make this loser race known as night elves extinct once and for all. Night Warrior indeed. Bloody joke.
Fucking idiot night elves fresh from being risen suddenly conclude they are 'Forsaken' a process that took the undead humans a LONG TIME TO CONCLUDE IN THEIR OWN STORY ARC. This is fucking bullshit. Kill off this fucking race and don't even bring them back as creaking corpses. Just give shadowmeld to void elves or something and call it done.

- - - Updated - - -

Yes, the night warrior is a pathetic joke that can be mind controlled by some random valkyr and fail. 'Fight the shadow in your hearts' is just her bullshit. Night Elves aren't clever enough to deceive the Forsaken.

Yeah, and the humans only became 'forsaken' after they themselves told a bunch of humans "we're totally not scourge" then murdered them...

[Mixxy]

Ummm. No. That would be the oddest definition of mind control for a while. :P

Warping someone's values, emotions and desires so that they do stuff they normally wouldn't do is a pretty standard definition of mind control, actually.

Am i the only one who does not see a problem?

I am not a lore expert, but it seems kinda clear that this kind of "resurrection" or better "raising", specially made in the spur of battle or in time proximity with trauma (also psicological), can fill the new undead with negative emotion, suppressing the positive ones.

In this scenario, i see every of my point fulfilled: 1) violent death; 2) sentiment of despair, abandon, loss of hope the moment before her death.

Probably, a different kind of resurrection (or on a different timing), would leave the soul "unscated".

The problem is when a character completely overcome with negative emotions, with absolutely no room for positive feelings... a character driven entirely by hatred and rage and vengeance... turns around and instantly forgives the one person responsible for their situation.


"God didn't save me from my murderer... so now I'm gonna help my murderer take over the world!"
u wot m8?

[Pucek]

Well, maybe in the very last moment Tyrande & Co were the center of her loss of hope and despair.

Another point, more pragmatic: do you think Sylvanas wuold resurrect people the she or her army killed knowing they will continue killing her own troops? It's kinda obvious that this scenario wuold make the "raising" totally pointless for Sylvanas.

But this is the point a lot of people here are trying to make, there is no reason why a person would serve the ones who killed them, other than mind control. Raising enemies should be pointless (unless you do it like Sylvanus did it in Loradeon when she raised mindless skeletons, that made sense).

[Deleted]

I just have to turn off reading mmo forums because its frightening how many people are out there with weird abnormal point of views.
I have a fair amount of imagination and common sense / courtesy towards others but somehow i keep seeing that whoever has a different view gets rekt and people just wanna destroy that person.

While i dont approve of Sylvanas and would have loved to see blizzard write it differently i'm not gonna threaten or insult the employees who made it up.
I do however understand why she's doing what she's doing. (Sylvanas ofc)
Sometimes you feel treated so unfair that you just wanna lash out at the world, heck sometimes when i'm feeling down i would press the "wipe humankind" button in the blink of an eye and feel i did planet earth a favor.

[Blizzard Moneybot]

Yeah, and the humans only became 'forsaken' after they themselves told a bunch of humans "we're totally not scourge" then murdered them...

Can we think before Cataclysm or has that been so fucked over it's no longer considered canon anymore? The *original batch* of Forsaken humans coined the term after realising the entire world was cold to their presence, including their families and friends and even the Light burned them. They wanted to reconnect with their friends and families, and the Alliance and were turned away, either tacitly or actively. They had a reason to be mad after a long ordeal. Suddenly these dumb fuck night elves have a reason to be mad at their former race for what? Being genocided like weak scum?

[TriHard]

The Night Elves have always been stepping stones for those two. It'd be nice if someone in the race said they had enough and voted for new leadership.

"Oh no my beloved! I'm just going to take Malf and bail, but don't worry my people... i'll come back and avenge you!"

Here's to hoping they'll get killed off in 8.2

[Blizzard Moneybot]

Her joining Sylvanas spit in the face of her whole characterization : she is a stalwart defender of the Night Elves.

Just as being a fan of night elves is means drowning in blizzard's spit. You are hopeless if you are a still a fan. Maybe that's the point. Even the greatest of the race, together, supposedly ascended can't fight off Nathanos ffs.

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Here's to hoping they'll get killed off in 8.2

Along with the rest of their pathetic race.

[gcsmith]

Can we think before Cataclysm or has that been so fucked over it's no longer considered canon anymore? The *original batch* of Forsaken humans coined the term after realising the entire world was cold to their presence, including their families and friends and even the Light burned them. They wanted to reconnect with their friends and families, and the Alliance and were turned away, either tacitly or actively. They had a reason to be mad after a long ordeal. Suddenly these dumb fuck night elves have a reason to be mad at their former race for what? Being genocided like weak scum?

They didn't have reason to be mad at humans though, because even before they sent a messenger south they'd been trusted even slightly by humans and murdered them all...

that said, the Night Elves joining the forsaken right now are basically as if the forsaken rejoined the scourge... "Your murdered my friends and family, burnt my tree, but because Elune, something that has only ever been involved sporadically at best didn't magically stop them being raised (which is weird they didn't become whisps tbh) they suddenly willingly sign up...?

[Tyrilion]

tl;dr

Sira: i'm going to kill you
Sira: oh no i'm being beaten but tyrande will save me
Sira: oh no tyrande didn't show up guess i'm dead now
Sira: screw tyrande 4 letting me die, ty for murdering me. i'm on your team now.

Alot of people will say its just alliance being butthurt but... it is a bit weird that thwyre just like yeah w/e im a forsaken now ..m it look lilian voss YEARS (i think) to come to terms with it

[Blizzard Moneybot]

They didn't have reason to be mad at humans though, because even before they sent a messenger south they'd been trusted even slightly by humans and murdered them all...

that said, the Night Elves joining the forsaken right now are basically as if the forsaken rejoined the scourge... "Your murdered my friends and family, burnt my tree, but because Elune, something that has only ever been involved sporadically at best didn't magically stop them being raised (which is weird they didn't become whisps tbh) they suddenly willingly sign up...?

Night Elf 'Forsaken' is just Blizzard's way of spitting in the eye of Night Elf fans and saying 'suck this down while we give you a black eyed model and some shitty theme armour'. This whole story arc is exactly that. It's like they know a bunch of dumb asses who main druids and demon hunters will be placated.

[Shibito]

Just a reminder that somebody was actually employed and paid to write this.

Somehow have to counter golden's terrible writing.

[BlakeArt]

They wanted to reconnect with their friends and families, and the Alliance and were turned away, either tacitly or actively.

It doesn't help when the very first action theyr queen took was to betray her word and slain the remain of the Alliance forces that helped her retaking Lordaeron like a few minutes ago. Just saying.

[Ahrean]

I get that newly raised undead are often confused and filled with negative emotion, so acting "out of character" seems fairly realistic, but siding with your actual murderers rather than the person whom you percieved as letting you down by allowing you to get murdered seems extremely, and I mean extremely dumb and contrived.

[Fewane]

Warping someone's values, emotions and desires so that they do stuff they normally wouldn't do is a pretty standard definition of mind control, actually.

Here it seems more like a byproduct of the process; rising as an undead itself warping the mind with no input from the person doing it.

[Hellspawn]

Here it seems more like a byproduct of the process; rising as an undead itself warping the mind with no input from the person doing it.

But if that was the case, Nathanos risked that both of them would have attacked him immediately after they rise them. So how could he be sure that they are on his side?

[Pucek]

But if that was the case, Nathanos risked that both of them would have attacked him immediately after they rise them. So how could he be sure that they are on his side?

He was sure thanks to the magical powers of bad writing.

[Hellspawn]

He was sure thanks to the magical powers of bad writing.

Wait, are you suggestion that blizzards writers are hacks?