1. #3281
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Being retired doesn't stop you from being something. If she is still teaching the Jedi ways and embracing it then for all intents and purposes she is a Jedi. She didn't walk away from the path to protect the galaxy but to protect her unborn son. You don't only become a Jedi when you complete your training. Even if that were true for the old order this would have been Luke's order.
    But she never formally adopted its practices and aesthetics, she simply knows the training and its ways. Whatever they're forging for the future, it's a new system, a new order. I think that's the whole point of calling it 'Rise of Skywalker', because Rey has adopted this new path and new creed, and while it's thematically similar to the Jedi Order, it's not bound by any of its past doctrines.

    I mean in a way, the Sith having broken off from the Jedi is similar form. This is a divergent path, simply without the 'Dark Side'. It's a new Order built from the ashes of the old, not strictly continuing the old ways. Even with The Last Jedi's messed up continuity, I think Yoda burning the books and the movie title itself was a point in that direction. And while yes, they did contradict that a bit by having Leia be full blown 'Jedi' trained in RoS, I personally didn't see her as a formal Jedi at all. Luke was literally the Last Jedi, thus the name of the movie. Leia disconnected herself from the order as much as Kylo, even if she didn't go Dark Side. That they both retained some of its training and its abilities doesn't mean they're Jedi.

    It's heavily implied that the legacy of the Jedi lives on through Rey, while the actual Jedi Order and the Skywalkers are forever gone.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2021-06-08 at 11:32 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  2. #3282
    Quote Originally Posted by Lothaeryn View Post
    She even admits it, She and Rey are "the last remnants of a dead Order", that means she's not an active Jedi or a practitioner of their doctrine, just a trained person on said topic.
    But that means that Yoda, Ben, and Luke were also not Jedi but merely remnants of a dead order. It is semantics to make a disintiction between the old Republic Jedi Order, Ben's Jedi Order, Yoda's Jedi Order, Luke's Jedi Order, Leia's Jedi Order, and Rey's Jedi Order. Everyone is still a Jedi right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    But she never formally adopted its practices and aesthetics, she simply knows the training and its ways. Whatever they're forging for the future, it's a new system, a new order. I think that's the whole point of calling it 'Rise of Skywalker', because Rey has adopted this new path and new creed, and while it's thematically similar to the Jedi Order, it's not bound by any of its past doctrines.
    So to be a Jedi requires you to dress like one? Lol. A new order of Jedi still makes her a Jedi.
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  3. #3283
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    So to be a Jedi requires you to dress like one? Lol. A new order of Jedi still makes her a Jedi.
    Luke was literally called 'the Last Jedi', which is why Leia and Rei were not considered to be Jedi at that point.

    Rey potentially carries that into the future by the end of RoS, but the movie ends without fully regarding anything about a future Jedi order at all.

    Do we know she continues the Jedi Order yet?
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  4. #3284
    Scarab Lord Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Yes she has.

    "Luke Skywalker : Because she saw your spirit. Your heart. Rey, some things are stronger than blood. Confronting fear is the destiny of a Jedi. Your destiny. If you don't face Palpatine, it will mean the end of the Jedi, and the war will be lost. "

    That was before the ending where it was confirmed by all the jedi ghosts that she was in fact a Jedi. Master, knight, padawan, youngling are all just titles and made up ranks. All of you keep looking for every little loophole to deny what is plain and simple. Rey is a Jedi and Leia is a jedi that never finished her training. It is even implied that the vision Leia had was setting up the events that would help Rey on her journey. But Rey studied from Jedi texts, healed a kyber crystal through jedi techniques, was taught by a Jedi and a half-trained Jedi, was endorsed by hundreds of past Jedi among other things not covered by those.
    Yes, Rey is a Jedi. But, Jedi Master is a specific title. Calling Rey a Jedi Master is wrong, because we don't know if she is even a full knight (though it is implied.)

    I am not looking for loophole. That argument I could say you are literally reading too far into everything to make your argument adding your own head canon as a fact. Yes, Leia trained as a Jedi and could be treated as a Jedi in certain context, but calling Leia a Jedi is factually wrong. Calling Rey a Jedi Master at the end of RoS is factually wrong because it is never stated she was even a knight. The Title Jedi is not equal to any specific title of rank. A Padawan is a Jedi, just as a Master is. Luke calling Rey a Jedi does not in any way shape or form grant her the rank of Master.

    Power does not make one a Jedi Master. Ability does not make one a Jedi Master. Even knowledge does not make one a Jedi Master.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
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  5. #3285
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Luke was literally called 'the Last Jedi', which is why Leia and Rei were not considered to be Jedi at that point. Rey potentially carries that into the future by the end of RoS, but the movie ends without fully regarding anything about a future Jedi order at all. Do we know she continues the Jedi Order yet?
    The problem with that argument is it was said by Kylo Ren. It doesn't have to be truth just because it was uttered by a character. You also ignore that Luke later said to Kylo that he won't be killing the last jedi. Which refers to Leia, Rey, both of those two, or some one else all together. The movies quite clearly set up that being a Jedi transcend the structure of the Order. So there being no order to belong to or not is irrelevant to any of this.

    If there are to be Jedi after Luke then it will have to start with Leia and Rey as those are the only two known to be teaching and following the Jedi ways to some degree.
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  6. #3286
    Scarab Lord Lothaeryn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    But that means that Yoda, Ben, and Luke were also not Jedi but merely remnants of a dead order. It is semantics to make a disintiction between the old Republic Jedi Order, Ben's Jedi Order, Yoda's Jedi Order, Luke's Jedi Order, Leia's Jedi Order, and Rey's Jedi Order. Everyone is still a Jedi right?
    Not really?

    Obi-Wan and Yoda were actual members of the Republic's Jedi order, whether or not the majority Order died off is irrelevant in their regard. They were in exile, but active practitioners of the Jedi doctrine of their time.

    Luke is not a member of the old Jedi order, he's already disqualified due to his unorthodox training at the hands of ben and Yoda. His father also getting the exception for being too old in his time doesn't revoke the fact that Anakin still went through the trials to become an officially recognized knight, Luke did not.

    Luke's Jedi order is not a resurrected Republic Jedi order, it has a majority of the doctrine, but critical changes on how it approaches emotion and how to utilize it. Ben and Yoda definitely would not agree on that standpoint if they were still alive and would have viewed it as a deviant sect that isn't officially recognized as part of their original order. In other words, Luke's order is Jedi in name, but not in practice.

    Leia is the last person alive that knows anything about both versions of said orders via Luke, but she never completed her training in either order's practition; she's initiated in the teaching, but not mastered enough to be fully recognized as a Jedi. She can only pass along what knowledge she has to Rey because no one else can even come close to training her.

    Lets put it another way, if Ahsoka was the only survivor of Order 66, and Ben and Yoda died in that event, She would be the last person capable of teaching Luke the ways of the Jedi order despite no longer being a practitioner or member of said order. Luke could go on and claim he's a Jedi, but no one alive can officiate him and recognize him as such. He's technically a pretender Jedi despite having much of their skillset.
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    .

  7. #3287
    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    Yes, Rey is a Jedi. But, Jedi Master is a specific title. Calling Rey a Jedi Master is wrong, because we don't know if she is even a full knight (though it is implied.)
    There is no order left to give a rank. Luke couldn't be a master because he had no Padawan that reach Knight. There was no council to give Luke, or anyone after him, official ranks. You are definitely looking for a loop hole here. Same way with you saying that Leia can be called a Jedi but it is factually incorrect. If you admit that she can be called one in your subjective "certain context" then it isn't factually incorrect.

    Everything points to Leia still being part of Luke's order even if she didn't complete training. She also was training Rey to be a Jedi which is hard to do if you are not a Jedi yourself. Otherwise Rey wouldn't be a Jedi but just a light side force user who learned some Jedi tricks. Right? But we know from all of the lore that Rey is considered a Jedi with out following any of the rules and trials that was created by the old Jedi Order.
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  8. #3288
    Quote Originally Posted by Lothaeryn View Post
    Luke could go on and claim he's a Jedi, but no one alive can officiate him and recognize him as such. He's technically a pretender Jedi despite having much of their skillset.
    He was recognized by Yoda in Return of the Jedi. His thesis defense was to confront his father, which he did. It's as official as it was possible to be under the circumstances.

  9. #3289
    Scarab Lord Lothaeryn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaktar View Post
    He was recognized by Yoda in Return of the Jedi. His thesis defense was to confront his father, which he did. It's as official as it was possible to be under the circumstances.
    That was under the hypothetical, but yes: Luke is officially recognized by Yoda in the actual canon despite him not really qualifying in any respect to doctrine. Luke is the last person alive to even come close to a real Jedi master by the time of ROTJ, hence why he gets away with being called one.
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    .

  10. #3290
    Quote Originally Posted by Lothaeryn View Post
    Obi-Wan and Yoda were actual members of the Republic's Jedi order, whether or not the majority Order died off is irrelevant in their regard. They were in exile, but active practitioners of the Jedi doctrine of their time.
    Oh so they can be in exile but still a Jedi but Leia can't stop her training and still be a Jedi? Weird double standard right? Also how can you say that Leia wouldn't be a Jedi while also saying that Luke is making up everything as he goes. You can't use old standards for being a Jedi while also saying those old standards don't exist anymore. Again a double standard to exclude a specific person.

    She couldn't even be a remnant of a dead order by your entire argument. Because the Jedi Order died with order 66. And Leia was only ever trained by Luke who you just said is a non-jedi and simply "stole" the name. So Leia wouldn't be the remnants of a dead order. She would just be a force user by your own arguments. All of this just because you want to go by your own head canon rather then accept that the canon indicates Leia as a Jedi.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lothaeryn View Post
    That was under the hypothetical, but yes: Luke is officially recognized by Yoda in the actual canon despite him not really qualifying in any respect to doctrine. Luke is the last person alive to even come close to a real Jedi master by the time of ROTJ, hence why he gets away with being called one.
    Actually he considers himself to still be a knight because he hasn't fulfilled the requirements to be a Jedi Master. Those requirements are to have a padawan that attains the rank of Knight. It is why Anakin was not given the rank of master but a seat on the council. This doubt of his rank is even explored in the Disney era canon. But if a Jedi master can over ride it then Luke can easily say a person is a Jedi even if they retire from training. Right?

    Or are we going to continue the double standards?
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  11. #3291
    The Unstoppable Force Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Oh so they can be in exile but still a Jedi but Leia can't stop her training and still be a Jedi? Weird double standard right? Also how can you say that Leia wouldn't be a Jedi while also saying that Luke is making up everything as he goes. You can't use old standards for being a Jedi while also saying those old standards don't exist anymore. Again a double standard to exclude a specific person.

    She couldn't even be a remnant of a dead order by your entire argument. Because the Jedi Order died with order 66. And Leia was only ever trained by Luke who you just said is a non-jedi and simply "stole" the name. So Leia wouldn't be the remnants of a dead order. She would just be a force user by your own arguments. All of this just because you want to go by your own head canon rather then accept that the canon indicates Leia as a Jedi.

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    Actually he considers himself to still be a knight because he hasn't fulfilled the requirements to be a Jedi Master. Those requirements are to have a padawan that attains the rank of Knight. It is why Anakin was not given the rank of master but a seat on the council. This doubt of his rank is even explored in the Disney era canon. But if a Jedi master can over ride it then Luke can easily say a person is a Jedi even if they retire from training. Right?

    Or are we going to continue the double standards?
    That is not the requirement to be a jedi master.

    https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Jedi_Master

    A Jedi Master was a Jedi Knight who had been offered a higher ranking within Jedi Order as a result of a Jedi Grand Master seeing the Knight fit for the position.
    Last edited by Orange Joe; 2021-06-09 at 01:26 AM.
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  12. #3292
    Quote Originally Posted by Orange Joe View Post
    That is not the requirement to be a jedi master. https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Jedi_Master
    "Years after the Great Jedi Purge and the Galactic Civil War, Luke Skywalker attempted to train his own generation of Jedi and was considered a Jedi Master, though it was merely a role he played not having formally earned such a title until posthumously completing said role as Padawan Rey's mentor as a Force spirit."

    That part of the wookieepedia seems to disagree. Having a padawan to some degree plays a role beyond that of the current council consenting. Also this article, https://screenrant.com/star-wars-jed...nks-explained/, is based on a canon book and it states "a Jedi Master is a Knight who has taken and trained a Padawan to Knighthood. " Though that book and article both seem to have errors with even some parts of the book contradict other parts of the book.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
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  13. #3293
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    "Years after the Great Jedi Purge and the Galactic Civil War, Luke Skywalker attempted to train his own generation of Jedi and was considered a Jedi Master, though it was merely a role he played not having formally earned such a title until posthumously completing said role as Padawan Rey's mentor as a Force spirit."

    That part of the wookieepedia seems to disagree. Having a padawan to some degree plays a role beyond that of the current council consenting. Also this article, https://screenrant.com/star-wars-jed...nks-explained/, is based on a canon book and it states "a Jedi Master is a Knight who has taken and trained a Padawan to Knighthood. " Though that book and article both seem to have errors with even some parts of the book contradict other parts of the book.
    The very next section says Rey is a Master even though she’s never had any students and it’s only possible she will take some on.

  14. #3294
    The Unstoppable Force Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    "Years after the Great Jedi Purge and the Galactic Civil War, Luke Skywalker attempted to train his own generation of Jedi and was considered a Jedi Master, though it was merely a role he played not having formally earned such a title until posthumously completing said role as Padawan Rey's mentor as a Force spirit."

    That part of the wookieepedia seems to disagree. Having a padawan to some degree plays a role beyond that of the current council consenting. Also this article, https://screenrant.com/star-wars-jed...nks-explained/, is based on a canon book and it states "a Jedi Master is a Knight who has taken and trained a Padawan to Knighthood. " Though that book and article both seem to have errors with even some parts of the book contradict other parts of the book.
    Training padawans was a way to earn master, but not the only way to be a master.
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  15. #3295
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    The very next section says Rey is a Master even though she’s never had any students and it’s only possible she will take some on.
    " At some point after, while attempting to restore galactic peace, Rey became a Jedi Master" is on the wookieepedia and is stated to be from the same book I mentioned in my last response. https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/The_Star_Wars_Book I will see if I can do a preview of it to look for better context.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Orange Joe View Post
    Training padawans was a way to earn master, but not the only way to be a master.
    Ah right. Lets ignore the information that proves you wrong just because it proves you wrong. Are there always exceptions? Sure but the exceptions are not the rule and the Old Republic Jedi Order was always shown to be stubborn. That is one of the reasons given for why Qui-gon turned down a position on the council.

    "Qui-Gon knew the Council to be wrong about many things. He felt they'd allowed the Jedi Order to become a sort of chancellor's police, rather than concentrating on knowing the Force. Yes, they were wise to refuse to rule - but unwise to simply accept the status quo. Short-sighted, to lose touch with the living Force by spending so much of their time and energy on enforcing laws that could as easily be left to civilian authorities. Immoral, to refuse to act against evils such as slavery."
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  16. #3296
    Scarab Lord Lothaeryn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Oh so they can be in exile but still a Jedi but Leia can't stop her training and still be a Jedi? Weird double standard right? Also how can you say that Leia wouldn't be a Jedi while also saying that Luke is making up everything as he goes. You can't use old standards for being a Jedi while also saying those old standards don't exist anymore. Again a double standard to exclude a specific person.

    She couldn't even be a remnant of a dead order by your entire argument. Because the Jedi Order died with order 66. And Leia was only ever trained by Luke who you just said is a non-jedi and simply "stole" the name. So Leia wouldn't be the remnants of a dead order. She would just be a force user by your own arguments. All of this just because you want to go by your own head canon rather then accept that the canon indicates Leia as a Jedi.

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    Actually he considers himself to still be a knight because he hasn't fulfilled the requirements to be a Jedi Master. Those requirements are to have a padawan that attains the rank of Knight. It is why Anakin was not given the rank of master but a seat on the council. This doubt of his rank is even explored in the Disney era canon. But if a Jedi master can over ride it then Luke can easily say a person is a Jedi even if they retire from training. Right?

    Or are we going to continue the double standards?
    Yoda & Ben: actual Jedi masters, who were NOT DEAD AT THE TIME, who go on to train the son of a Jedi knight, who technically would not qualify to be a Jedi in any respectable way under their own Order's doctrine.

    Ahsoka: A failed Padawan who left said order for her own reasons, knows the workings of Jedi Heirarchy and would be able to teach others on how it used to work. Would not be able to officiate rights to train new Jedi as official Jedi despite that knowledge.

    Luke: son of former Jedi knight, too old to train as an official Jedi knight; gets trained by actual Jedi masters in the ways to Jedi knighthood despite not being recognizable by official order doctrine. Grandmaster of Order allows singular exception to Luke, despite it breaking all protocols and doctrines of the order, to have the chance to become a Jedi if he confronts Vader. Luke then treats himself as a practitioner of a new path based on old Jedi doctrine with some critical edits. (you following along yet?) Not really a Jedi in anything but name, but uninitiated people who don't know the difference call him a Jedi Master anyways cause he's the closest thing to it after ROTJ.

    Leia: Sister of Luke, initiated in the new ways of teaching that Luke Skywalker offers as his version of Jedi doctrine, despite them not being able to be recognized by original order. Despite Luke urging her to continue his new philosophy, she leaves said order before he could recognize her as a Knight in his own version of the order; specifically because she saw visions that if she completed her training as a Jedi, her son Ben Solo would die. When Luke dies, she's the last person to know of his and the older order's teachings; is a remnant of those teachings because she cannot be officially recognized by the original order's practice. As in, she's the last person in the galaxy who can give pointers to anyone who wants to learn about Jedi; but no one, including herself, can ever be a real Jedi because the original Jedi order is dead at this point. They can carry on the name if they wish, but by the standards of Jedi doctrine, none of them can be officially recognized in the old order.

    Luke could call her a Jedi if he wanted to, but it doesn't really matter because after Yoda's death its fucking make believe at this point, something even Yoda tries to teach him in TLJ. You can cry to the damn heaven's as much as you want but it doesn't change the fact that Luke is barely a Jedi by any stretch of the imagination, and Leia can't be called anything greater than a force user. Ben and Yoda skirt their own order's laws just to get a single heir to their legacy, throwing the entire order's practice out the window in the process; then fully admit in the end that it doesn't matter if their successors are Jedi or not.

    Yoda and Ben are the last of the Jedi order, and the Jedi order died with them (I say this specifically because Jedi master Cere Junda and Cal Kestis from Fallen order are not confirmed to be alive post ROTJ). Luke carried on their legacy in name but can't realistically do that in an official capacity because he was not really a Jedi to begin with. Anyone who comes after Luke is part of a new order that is not really Jedi in anything but name either. Calling Leia a Jedi is just being kind at that point, because she never even completed Luke's training requirements ffs.

    Not like anyone over at Lucasfilm even thought about this. Even in ROTJ Luke shouldn't be recognized as a Jedi even though Yoda says he will be when he confronts Vader; Yoda even laughs at Luke's declaration that he's a Jedi now. The sequel canon is a shitshow for this exact reason. Despite Lucasfilm's insistence on calling her one, Leia is not a Jedi by their own metrics. There's no official way she could ever be recognized one, she could only bear the name in honor of their legacy had she chosen to, and she deliberately didn't.
    Last edited by Lothaeryn; 2021-06-09 at 03:12 AM.
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  17. #3297
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    The Jedi did not exist at that point.

    Unless she went through full Padawan progression and initiation, she was not a Jedi. And there's no indication that happened. Just that Luke trained her in the ways of the Force. Totally different things.
    Luke didn't do that either. He wasn't initiated, he wasn't a Padawan, he wasn't knighted. For obvious reasons.

    The entire structure of what it means to be a Jedi changed significantly with the Prequels. We knew very little about them until then, and didn't need to. We knew they used the Force, we knew the Jedi had Lightsabers, that they were guardians of peace and protectors of the weak. And that's pretty much it.

    What we know as Jedi robes today used to be standard Tatooine clothing. Unless uncle Owen was a Jedi in hiding. It made sense for Ben Kenobi to dress like that, because he lived in a desert and wanted to blend in.

    There were no Padawans. The term simply didn't exist. There was no Jedi Order, either. We had no idea about their organization amongst each other, if they even had any. They might just as well have been knights errant, taking up a gifted learner who was taught in their ways, their principles, use of the force and trusting it, and then had to overcome a sort of challange to be recognized as a Jedi knight. The temptation of the Dark Side and rejecting it is probably somewhere in there too.

    If we take this interpretation of what it means to be a Jedi, then Luke is a Jedi, and so is Rey. Leia aspired to be at one point, but didn't go through with it. I'm not sure if the word Padawan is ushered in the expanded sequel material, but from what one gathers from the movie, this is also the model Luke applied for his teachings. He was a singular master teaching students in the ways of the Force and the Jedi. No need to have an Order for that, or anything.

    If we take the model presented in the Prequels, Luke's not a Jedi either. Yoda was the last Jedi (or Cal Kestis, we don't exactly know what happened to him, but at least he was properly knighted.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lothaeryn View Post
    Even in ROTJ Luke shouldn't be recognized as a Jedi even though Yoda says he will be when he confronts Vader; Yoda even laughs at Luke's declaration that he's a Jedi now.
    Fairly certain he's coughing there.

  18. #3298
    Scarab Lord Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    There is no order left to give a rank. Luke couldn't be a master because he had no Padawan that reach Knight. There was no council to give Luke, or anyone after him, official ranks. You are definitely looking for a loop hole here. Same way with you saying that Leia can be called a Jedi but it is factually incorrect. If you admit that she can be called one in your subjective "certain context" then it isn't factually incorrect.

    Everything points to Leia still being part of Luke's order even if she didn't complete training. She also was training Rey to be a Jedi which is hard to do if you are not a Jedi yourself. Otherwise Rey wouldn't be a Jedi but just a light side force user who learned some Jedi tricks. Right? But we know from all of the lore that Rey is considered a Jedi with out following any of the rules and trials that was created by the old Jedi Order.
    No, Leia does not need to be a Jedi to train someone as a Jedi. Leia just needs to understand Jedi training and there were non-Jedi who understood the training of a Jedi. You can treat Leia AS a Jedi for certain contexts, but Leia is NOT a Jedi. This isn't a loophole, this is literally what the canon says. If you disagree with this, you are asserting your head canon and personal definition supersede official ones.

    Calling Rey a Jedi Master is factually incorrect on all levels because at most she is applied to be Knight Level akin to Luke at the end of RotJ. She is not a Master, period.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    " At some point after, while attempting to restore galactic peace, Rey became a Jedi Master" is on the wookieepedia and is stated to be from the same book I mentioned in my last response. https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/The_Star_Wars_Book I will see if I can do a preview of it to look for better context.
    That reference book has at least 4 contradictions with the timeline. Reference books are always lower than any other source.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  19. #3299
    Scarab Lord Lothaeryn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skulltaker View Post
    Fairly certain he's coughing there.
    He's trying to laugh but coughing because he's on his deathbed, its both.
    Fod Sparta los wuth, ahrk okaaz gekenlok kruziik himdah, dinok fent kos rozol do daan wah jer do Samos. Ahrk haar do Heracles fent motaad, fah strunmah vonun fent yolein ko yol
    .

  20. #3300
    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    That reference book has at least 4 contradictions with the timeline. Reference books are always lower than any other source.
    Doesn't matter unless it contradicts the statement being discussed. Reference books are still canon despite your, and others, view that they are lower then any other source. Unless you have another source that says she is not a master then what the reference book says stand. This is what a lot of star wars discussions come down to though. Refusal to accept canon and create a loop hole for why it can be dismissed.

    If it walk like a duck, talks like a duck, and looks like a duck then it is a duck. The very fact that you say you can treat Leia as a Jedi in certain contexts means that for all intents and purposes she is a Jedi. A retired member but that is all the Galaxy has left. One that offered a different perspective of the views on fear and how to deal with it.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

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