How to fix Baine?

[Deleted]

I've read through this thread and alot of people think that its not that Baine is a pacifist that is a problem but his writing? So I'll ask you If Baine's writing is a 1/10 what would you set Sylvanas writing on? ?/10, Because I think her writing is just as bad. If not even worse. Feels like shes trying to get everyone in the horde killed so she can resurect them shes so fucking bad at leading and base everything on her hatred.

Just kill her off already any warchief is better then her. Fuck even Gamon would make more sense then the Bitch Queen

[Tyrilion]

I'm taking time off of my busy schedule of shitting on Baine at every opportunity and cribbing an idea from the official forums. Now all of us who don't play Alliance know that Baine is a complete doormat and traitor who is unsuited to be janitor, let alone faction leader or future Warchief. Since I'm sure we'll have plenty of time to rag on about this when more of his dialogue and the Derek cinematic comes out, I pose this question to you. If you were in charge, how would you fix Baine to make him an actually palatable character?

Hard mode: You can't take him behind the barn like Old Yeller.

Baine is a Very fleshed out character with a good story, bare in mind the tauren are not an aggresive race and made a truce to spare mulgore.

I love baine and would have preffered him as warchief, he could have ended this stupid alliance vs horde thing, which meant blizz could have done different feature to the dam warfronts and island expeditions.

[Arrashi]

Imo sylvanas are the complete idiot for hiding whatever it is she refers to afterwards from the other faction leaders when it could play a vital role in the war.

Why would she disclose her plan in front of baine who would immediately warn alliance ?

[Trbn]

they'd better kill of baine instead of rastakhan

tauren is useless

[Deleted]

I chose Jaina because between Jaina and Anduin (as characters who once both trusted and aided Baine) only Jaina seemed able to betray him based on her own checkered history with Horde diplomacy. Anduin would have to have very powerful reason to suddenly and inexplicably betray Baine, which makes a surprise attack difficult to imagine. Jaina, though, I could possibly doing this just to get a leg up on the Horde - throwing away her connection to Baine to forward the Alliance cause. What might be even better is if Baine approached Anduin about the treaty to preserve Mulgore, but Anduin put Jaina in command of the Alliance forces in Mulgore and, as a result, set-up the betrayal of Baine by Jaina. That way Baine would blame both Anduin and Jaina for betraying him, cementing his cause and loyalty to the Horde's mission.

Jaina already betrayed the Horde by turning Theramore into an Alliance military outpost. This ship has sailed.

I don't think that they should break the character like they did with Jaina. This is not needed. He should instead die in service of his people, and then either Mayla or Magatha should take control over the Tauren - depending on how grim they should become.

[Deleted]

I've read through this thread and alot of people think that its not that Baine is a pacifist that is a problem but his writing? So I'll ask you If Baine's writing is a 1/10 what would you set Sylvanas writing on? ?/10, Because I think her writing is just as bad. If not even worse. Feels like shes trying to get everyone in the horde killed so she can resurect them shes so fucking bad at leading and base everything on her hatred.

Just kill her off already any warchief is better then her. Fuck even Gamon would make more sense then the Bitch Queen

You not liking a character does not automatically make it "bad writing" just because you cannot handle the direction they are going in. Bad writing would be if everything Sylvanas has done and is doing is completely OOC and is dramatically at odds with her personality and beliefs. But it's not. She may be behaving more extreme than what we have seen in the past, and Blizzard may be pushing her to be more universally evil and less nuanced, but that is not "bad writing" - that's just you not liking who she is, period.

[GetCrunk]

Ideal world:
"Nathanos:My queen... reports are coming in from all outposts. The Alliance is tightening its grip. Victory is within their grasp.

Baine: Perhaps we can open negotiations

Sylvanas: The Alliance slays the leader of the Zandalari, and you speak of negotiations?
Sylvanas: No. This war will not end until we stand victorious. Until the Little Lion kneels before my throne.

Baine: Are you fucking stupid or delusional? We just heard we're about to lose, of course we should negotiate while we have a hand at all. If we're defeated, they flat out dictate terms, and they sure as hell won't be as good as if we negotiate.

Sylvanas: Come to the Banshee's Wail. I have a plan to ensure the Proudmoore family pays dearly for Rastakhan's death. "

Baine: So your idea is to escalate again? Piss them off even more when they're winning? Bitch, the rest of us LIKE being alive. If you have some secret weapon, you know, that isn't blight, why the hell haven't you at least told us about it?

Do you know anything about war or recruiting allies?
You as Horde you are in Zandalar to recruit the Zandalari to be horde allies and you want to abandon them and start negotiate with the faction that just kill the King of Zandalari ?
If Sylvanas starts to negotiate will be view as a weak leader, especially among the orcs. And in war time weak characters as Baine should not be part of Horde leadership.

Imo sylvanas are the complete idiot for hiding whatever it is she refers to afterwards from the other faction leaders when it could play a vital role in the war.

Imo maybe some leaders but not Baine he betray The Horde when he alerted Jaina about Garrosh and he was caught by Sylvanas having a secret communication with Anduin.


And me as Horde player to be force to negotiate with Alliance. After the SoO fiasco where is stated that The Horde exist only because Alliance let it be. To make The Horde a wimp again NO! My point is i do not care what is Sylvanas motive for war but i know my motive the alliance needs burn to the gound and if Sylvanas wants to raise alliance troops in the process i have nothing agains it, then and only then Baine can start to negotiate.

[Thundering]

Jaina already betrayed the Horde by turning Theramore into an Alliance military outpost. This ship has sailed.

I don't think that they should break the character like they did with Jaina. This is not needed. He should instead die in service of his people, and then either Mayla or Magatha should take control over the Tauren - depending on how grim they should become.

This is bs Theramore was just a harbour city that let the alliance adventures land and use it. The Alliance troops where let to land and move awey from there due to the horde aggression was threatening the city, and that aggression was the thing that destroyed it. It was and always been the horde that betrayed Jaina.

[Aucald]

Jaina already betrayed the Horde by turning Theramore into an Alliance military outpost. This ship has sailed.

I don't think that they should break the character like they did with Jaina. This is not needed. He should instead die in service of his people, and then either Mayla or Magatha should take control over the Tauren - depending on how grim they should become.

Jaina can't really "betray" the Horde as she was never part of it, nor really had any loyalty to it (or expected of her). It was a bad diplomatic move to allow Theramore to become the military hub of the Alliance's push into central Kalimdor, but it is not as if the Alliance had much of a choice as they could either use the infrastructure that existed or built their own - an exceedingly unlikely and most self-defeating choice on their part.

My example of "fixing" Baine fit in with the OP's rubric of making him more partisan and more active in the faction war *without* stuffing him into the proverbial fridge. Personally speaking, I don't think there's an issue with Baine despite my disagreement with his passivity or his willingness to prioritize peace over the safety of the Horde at this point. I think most people don't really understand Baine or where he's coming from. Baine's lack of loyalty to the Horde is the legacy of Garrosh's mismanagement of the Horde and the events that saw Baine acquire the leadership of the Mulgore Tauren - it's an unaddressed schism that will probably soon have to be addressed one way or the other.

[Zaganite]

All my Tauren characters disagree, they rather see Baine get killed so the Taurens can become a true Horde race.

So replace his with Magatha Grimtotem and have everyone give out about another female leader? Right now I can't think of another Tauren who could be leader. Baine is like King Mekka, if he goes there isn't anyone really to replace him so we're better off keeping him around with his pacifist ways

[RangerDaz]

I thought all cool and edgy people in BfA liked to bash Sylvanas. It seems that the new edgy trend now is to bash Saurfang and Baine instead.


i'll will give my contribution for this thread tough. I feel Baine and Saurfang will rejoin and stand up to Sylvanas and say this is not going well at all, and tough decisions need to be made. Maybe at that time Blizzard will finally figure out what to say in relation to the explaination of the reason that made Sylvanas warchief, and which character really wanted her to be warchief.

[sam86]

Good thinking. But why make him lose too much people, in times where there are mages with teleports he would know after slaughter of first vilage. Btw. Ebonhord burning down alliance soldiers stuck in the chokepoint would be satisfying enough and would be similar to the war between Amani and Arathor(you know, anihilation of amani army by human/elven mages).

old wow or current wow lore ?
in wow rpg, creating portal is big deal, let alone mass teleport of ppl, and can happen only on nexus laylines that cross azeroth, it was very clear that teleport 3 times a day (just teleport urself) is very exhausting and can kill u if u not resting and careful (source : cycle of hatred)
right now the rule of kool as usual sh8t on lore so i have no idea what blizz thinks anymore about teleportation and how basically everyone move anywhere, where once only strongest mage in azeroth (or one of strongest) can barely teleport 3 times a day, and very risky and can easily be trapped and warded against, now we have portals to freaking every single spot
blizz seriously need to be clear on teleport, if teleport is that easy now, why do we even need airships or ships, or even carts, a mage will teleport grain, teleport the farmer (and maybe the farm itself) to city and back, since it costs nothing

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So replace his with Magatha Grimtotem and have everyone give out about another female leader? Right now I can't think of another Tauren who could be leader. Baine is like King Mekka, if he goes there isn't anyone really to replace him so we're better off keeping him around with his pacifist ways

to be fair, Magatha is one of strongest female characters in warcraft history since pre-wow itself, if u were following the rpg books (also i didn't read them prior to wow tbh)
I'd say of all females who lead wow now, Magatha is one that deserve that seat the most and is ignored, also i hate how activision bend its ass to SJW and how they just shoved females in our throats in leadership (and sucked in it a lot), Magatha is truly one that can easily fit the role of very strong hard female leader, and with the strongest race under her hands, this will actually be interesting

[Verdugo]

This is bs Theramore was just a harbour city that let the alliance adventures land and use it.

Thats why it was spitting out troops during cataclysm?

[Deleted]

You not liking a character does not automatically make it "bad writing" just because you cannot handle the direction they are going in. Bad writing would be if everything Sylvanas has done and is doing is completely OOC and is dramatically at odds with her personality and beliefs. But it's not. She may be behaving more extreme than what we have seen in the past, and Blizzard may be pushing her to be more universally evil and less nuanced, but that is not "bad writing" - that's just you not liking who she is, period.

She is a character without future thats only killing shit because why the hell not. She does not care about anyone and people in here presence seems to completely ignore everything she does and is perfectly fine with it for no good reason. She's like a big angry meanie without cause that has extreme plot armor because people like how she looks. Have you seen whom resposible for the writing? Its a guy that more or less self inserts himself into Nathanos and calls her his wife. Its extremly disturbing and yes the writing is horrendously bad and thats the reason why I don't like the character not the other way around.

"I will kill anyone who doesn't find my cause just, even tho I know its not. My people have no future but I will still kill because I'm so damn angry"

Thats the depth of Sylvanas writing

[Flarelaine]

I'm taking time off of my busy schedule of shitting on Baine at every opportunity and cribbing an idea from the official forums. Now all of us who don't play Alliance know that Baine is a complete doormat and traitor who is unsuited to be janitor, let alone faction leader or future Warchief. Since I'm sure we'll have plenty of time to rag on about this when more of his dialogue and the Derek cinematic comes out, I pose this question to you. If you were in charge, how would you fix Baine to make him an actually palatable character?

Have him call and win mak'gora.

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Have the forsaken torture him slowly and painfully to death. Then raise him, only to kill him again. Keep his remains somewhere safe. Every year, have a festival where he will be raised again so every citizen of the Horde can pay a fee to throw rotten tomatoes and spit at him. Children can do it for free. Make a premium service where Horde members can unleash all their frustrations on him (with a selection of weapons provided by the Horde leadership hostel style) for 5 minutes. Once the festivities end, have the Tauren he exiled kill him in a manner of their choice. Store his remains for the next year.

Those desires suggest you should see a professional.

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the Horde ethos is "Victory or Death" and even Sylvanas follows that more than he does

Yeah, we saw that at Lordaeron.

[Super Dickmann]

Have him call and win mak'gora.

I actually suggested this in another thread and I'm still fond of the idea. Have him either call Mak'gora or threaten to on the position that A) He knows Sylvanas will cheat and B) If she cheats to win and he's to be considered the heart of the Horde by the more traditional elements, she'd discredit herself massively by killing him. He's ready to die to steer the Horde out of the way if it knows it'll foil her in this fashion and put them on the right path. So instead, he uses that as leverage to force Sylvanas to conduct the war properly and steer towards a possibility where compromise can happen. It'd be Baine doing something successful as Baine. I probably still wouldn't like him but it'd give him a moment of being good at what he does.

[Broken Fox]

If Baine wins a Makgora against Sylvanas I’ll unsubscribe lmao

[Cucultlan]

Jaina can't really "betray" the Horde as she was never part of it, nor really had any loyalty to it (or expected of her). It was a bad diplomatic move to allow Theramore to become the military hub of the Alliance's push into central Kalimdor, but it is not as if the Alliance had much of a choice as they could either use the infrastructure that existed or built their own - an exceedingly unlikely and most self-defeating choice on their part.

My example of "fixing" Baine fit in with the OP's rubric of making him more partisan and more active in the faction war *without* stuffing him into the proverbial fridge. Personally speaking, I don't think there's an issue with Baine despite my disagreement with his passivity or his willingness to prioritize peace over the safety of the Horde at this point. I think most people don't really understand Baine or where he's coming from. Baine's lack of loyalty to the Horde is the legacy of Garrosh's mismanagement of the Horde and the events that saw Baine acquire the leadership of the Mulgore Tauren - it's an unaddressed schism that will probably soon have to be addressed one way or the other.

Making a pact of no agression to the horde with Thrall and breaking it, even if Thrall was no longer the warchief at the time doesnt diminish that she broke it and per se betrayed the Horde by doing it.

[Smallfruitbat]

How to fix Baine?

Have Nathanos go BM and tame him, problem solved. I'm fairly sure most of the player base won't actually notice the transition. -Although given the amount of Nathanos gets, they might be suspicious when the old bull gets more screen time.

[Duckz0rs]

Have him be possesed by Cairne's spirit, completely blocking out all of Baine's personality. Forever.

Yeah, it's cheap, but he doesn't deserve more than that anyway.