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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Baconeggcheese View Post
    Did we play the same game? All 3 specs had clear strengths and weaknesses, what are you even on about?

    There is no mechanical state of any spec in this game that can't be elevated or destroyed by tuning, so this is absolute nonsense.
    OK then, what was 5.4 Destro weakness? Go ahead, tell me.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by dolfke View Post
    most are asking (pvp view) to add Circle and Demon skin to be put baseline. So having 2 more buttons (circle) is bloating for you ??
    Pvp crap should stay in pvp talents. And when it comes to circle, that is the worst ability ever added to the warlock class. Requires 2 buttons to use, doesn't remain after death and it's a fucking movement ability that requires earlier setup. There's nothing more annoying to me in the game than having to place a portal (and gateway) before every boss pull. Especially having to reset the boss just so warlocks can place their shit. Idiotic game design. And being balanced around it in pvp means we are always going to be a free kill to every melee in the open world (if we are not then we are overpowered).

    Quote Originally Posted by dolfke View Post
    What happens to the new gamers these day's having problem to memorise 8 buttons ?? Watch some arena pvpers (specialy healers) with there Target / dispel / cc marco's
    I'm not a new gamer by any means. Having to have a million of macros to be able to do something is, again, idiotic game design. No wonder wow pvp is so popular.

  3. #103
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by burek View Post
    Pvp crap should stay in pvp talents. And when it comes to circle, that is the worst ability ever added to the warlock class. Requires 2 buttons to use, doesn't remain after death and it's a fucking movement ability that requires earlier setup. There's nothing more annoying to me in the game than having to place a portal (and gateway) before every boss pull. Especially having to reset the boss just so warlocks can place their shit. Idiotic game design. And being balanced around it in pvp means we are always going to be a free kill to every melee in the open world (if we are not then we are overpowered).
    Crazy that you find it a stupid ability. I found it more usefull and more cheating way than blink. It do found it more easy to use in pve when you could place it with your eyeball. Must be a flavor taste then, if you find it a stupid ability. I loved it in pvp and pve.

    About early setup, al BG's have flavor for circle to be usefull and not insta charged back vs blink. (house , roof ,... ) and for world pvp: when you are jumped, you used to coil, fear , place portal , start kitting away from your portal, when melee reached u, use portal, when back to you use coil again with fear etc ..

    But something tells me you played on pve server / warmode off



    Quote Originally Posted by burek View Post
    I'm not a new gamer by any means. Having to have a million of macros to be able to do something is, again, idiotic game design. No wonder wow pvp is so popular.
    Again must be a flavor/style of gameplay that is differend than mine, and i'm ok with it. Just that i hope that you are ok with it, that we asked for some little change to make it more durabel for us in pvp. And for pve i'm ok with the little use of button's (though i liked f&b toggle gameplay of mop)

  4. #104
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by burek View Post
    Why? What's the point of even more abilities? Why do we need 28 instead of 25?

    We have way too many abilities already. A game like diablo works with 6 abilities, why would wow need 5 times as many?
    Because diablo talent system allows to actually customize each spell you have, which isn't the case in WoW. Saying "just pick shadowburn or roaring blaze and there is your customization" is a complete farce, the talent trees in this game are far from good in terms of tailoring your gameplay experience. And a part of the WoW community for some masochist/fanboyish reason prefer to settle with mediocrity rather than making an old dusty MMO more interesting for once in its lifetime. Its not about imposing to others because it would be done via talents. But talents in WoW do not live up that what they are supposed to deliver unless people's standards are so low they are actually excited to pick garbage that barely changes anything gameplay wise.

    WoW gameplay is so blatantly boring and braindead for anyone who cares about more than just killing bosses that people want more buttons to cheat the boredom. Its that bad

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baconeggcheese View Post
    Did we play the same game? All 3 specs had clear strengths and weaknesses, what are you even on about?

    There is no mechanical state of any spec in this game that can't be elevated or destroyed by tuning, so this is absolute nonsense.

    Especially since the whole "weakness and strengths" of Blizzard people like to parrot is completely broken and will never work. Some classes currently have way more powers than weaknesses, its just unbalanced and will always be because some classes are mechanically superior to others and have baseline more tools than others. Like the typical mage vs elemental. Or rogue vs feral.
    Last edited by mmocc90fcf6aa1; 2018-10-29 at 10:38 AM.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by lateralsx5 View Post
    Because diablo talent system allows to actually customize each spell you have, which isn't the case in WoW. Saying "just pick shadowburn or roaring blaze and there is your customization" is a complete farce, the talent trees in this game are far from good in terms of tailoring your gameplay experience. And a part of the WoW community for some masochist/fanboyish reason prefer to settle with mediocrity rather than making an old dusty MMO more interesting for once in its lifetime. Its not about imposing to others because it would be done via talents. But talents in WoW do not live up that what they are supposed to deliver unless people's standards are so low they are actually excited to pick garbage that barely changes anything gameplay wise.
    I agree with that. The talent system in this game is bad. There are some other stuff that are bad too compared to other rpgs, like gear for example. Gear in wow is boring crap. It's been like that from the start. And I'm afraid it's going to stay that way. Any attempt to change things a bit to make them more interesting is met with extremely negative feedback. Look at legendaries, look at wearing 2p/4p from two tier sets, look at azerite. Better than stupid stat sticks but all hated for some reason or another.

    And talents (or any other choice) are meaningless in a game where everything is pre-simulated to determine what is the best choice. And where other people's success and enjoyment also depend on you making the right choices.

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by burek View Post
    What I consider as bloat currently is having a 3min CD, a 2 min CD and a 1.5min trinket CD. Or having both a healthstone and a health potion instead of just 1 of them with 2 charges. Or 4 pets with important utility to switch around. And having tons of little procs you can't react to in a meaningful way.

    But I'm not sure what are you arguing for, have we ever had a rotation with 10 buttons every 30s? Maybe as demo with switching in and out of meta to gain new abilities.
    Trinket cd's have existed since forever, not to mention racials and then your class CD's. Since your definition of having some infrequent abilities that you consider to many as bloat, I doubt we can come to an agreement.

    And yes, I am a demo main players, so I enjoyed that aspect. I also enjoyed cata and mop or even WoD affliction many times more than I did this current abomination and BfA destro is just a further pruned Legion destro.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    OK then, what was 5.4 Destro weakness? Go ahead, tell me.
    Ok then, what was aff aoe like in 5.4? 5.3? 5.2? 5.1?

    I don't get what you're getting at with this man, its nonsense. There literally is no way to argue that you can't tune any of those specs to be hot garbage in the current game even with their old designs. Again there is no design that can't be elevated or destroyed via tuning.

    the fact that you're trying to cherry pick a specific spec in a specific patch out of 4 years worth of those specs being designed the same pretty much speaks for itself.

    Quote Originally Posted by lateralsx5 View Post
    Some classes currently have way more powers than weaknesses
    If we're talking currently, I don't think they're even attempting to have that kind of thing anymore. At least not anywhere near as pronounced as it was.

    Currently lock has 3 specs that almost do damage in the same way outside of very very specific situations. So you tend to want to approach fights the same way, except aff just does it better because tuning + slightly more flexibility.
    "I've carefully played this game to an endless despair"

  8. #108
    Doesn't it bother anyone else that the most overpowered AoE ability in existance, Bane of Havoc is accessible when you do world quest, but not in dungeons or raids. Just so odd to lose power like that, like going from AoEing the whole screen for 100% of your damage to hitting 1 target for 60% feels really shitty.

  9. #109
    Going from "totally overpowered" to "just regularly powered" does tend to feel bad, yeah. See for reference: The way everyone clings to MoP.

  10. #110
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Besides Destruction as is - is at good place and can pump damage without relying on massive crutches and I do actually like that.
    How can I contact you? I have some gameplay questions. Thanks

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Tramzh View Post
    Doesn't it bother anyone else that the most overpowered AoE ability in existance, Bane of Havoc is accessible when you do world quest, but not in dungeons or raids. Just so odd to lose power like that, like going from AoEing the whole screen for 100% of your damage to hitting 1 target for 60% feels really shitty.
    What was worse for me was using focused chaos out in the world and having CB start to feel like CB again only to go into instanced pve and.. yeah...

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    Quote Originally Posted by bio347 View Post
    Going from "totally overpowered" to "just regularly powered" does tend to feel bad, yeah. See for reference: The way everyone clings to MoP.
    Don't get that reference, that'd be implying that we were "regularly powered" during wod, or legion, or now when we've pretty much always had at least 1 top performing spec the entire time.
    "I've carefully played this game to an endless despair"

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Moksha View Post
    How can I contact you? I have some gameplay questions. Thanks
    Sup,

    I suggest to go warlock discord for such things, it's the best place for it. They will guide you to correct resources and answer questions.

    Here is the link: https://discord.gg/BlackHarvest

  13. #113
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Sup,

    I suggest to go warlock discord for such things, it's the best place for it. They will guide you to correct resources and answer questions.
    thanks buddy :-)

  14. #114
    I just wish the scrapped incinerate and brought back searing pain with no threat modifier. I hate that the majority of our abilities have the longest travel time.

  15. #115
    I actually find the above to be a fair feedback, I do think at least Incinerate travel time could be sped up by a good 25% or so and maybe CB too at that. I don't think Searing Pain is the answer, because basically Immolate is pretty much that anyway.

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaelexi View Post
    I just wish the scrapped incinerate and brought back searing pain with no threat modifier. I hate that the majority of our abilities have the longest travel time.
    Definitely a double edged sword, isn't great mechanically but it looks way cooler. Affliction has the opposite issue in that regard.

    For me I think the longer travel time lends itself well to the slow heavy hitting version of destruction from the past, but it feels out of place with the current version. At least CB travels waaayy faster than it used to, iirc this new incinerate takes a decent bit less time than the old incinerate as well which used to snake around a lot more.
    "I've carefully played this game to an endless despair"

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