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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Caprix View Post
    it's just stronger now, especially on single target. By the time your envM landed in legion you now already have 2s of soom+statue, and 1s of envm hot rolling. Next vivify is coming in 0.5s only (so 1s earlier), and will heal twice because of the rem, and statue and soom will continue healing while you "cast" it. If you ever need to refresh envm and continue healing the same target you gain 0.5s+ once again soom and statue not stopping every time you cast. You are way, way ahead of legion healing.
    With a bit of setup your cleave is also better as you can heal 4 or all 5 (not so reliable for 5) targets with it.

    I mention statue because you can use it as it does real healing now. It also helps a bit in cleave as you can leave it on a priority target (which you couldn't in legion if you ever tried to use it)

    A few things are missing from Legion here: the big Sheilun once in a while, EnvM on the move with TFT, damage reduction from soom.. that's it.
    I mean if the ramp-up for EM in Legion was a problem you always had TfT to make it instant cast. The CD on TfT really isn't that long.

    Also REM randomly jumping around can be problematic if I want it to be on a certain target to spot-heal.

    There are just a lot of extra boxes to check, and overall we feel less versatile. We could respond to all of the same situations in Legion, and more.

    Being able to TfT>EM in Legion was huge and offered a lot of emergency healing potential. The 1 Sec SooM>ENVMist is not the same in BFA. Not to mention it doesn't have the same initial burst heal it had in Legion, unless you waste TfT.

    We honestly feel hog-tied to the Global Cooldown now, whereas in Legion you could heal on the go a lot better.

    For example if our group got into a sticky place in Legion that came up unexpectedly, I could TfT and double EnvMists two people beginning IMMEDIATELY. Now I have to: Cast SooM > Wait 1 sec > EM > change target > Cast SooM > Wait 1 sec > EM, etc.

    It's just slower and clunkier when responding to things. In the majority of situations hard-casting EM/Vivify was fine. But old-TfT let us respond to those emergencies a lot quicker than what we have now.
    Last edited by Frosteye; 2018-10-17 at 08:06 PM.

  2. #42
    Deleted
    Just to add to the OP quuestion, everything is barebone this expansion. I've returned after MoP and did level upgrades for my 2 heroes and its so scaled down. Lots of what i assumed as core abilities and functions are gone. what the crap is going on here with this exp and the direction they are taking...

  3. #43
    better place or not, perhaps they should have gotten it right in one of the last 15 incarnations of the class? Like... why is it we re-design every class/spec every single expansion? Sometimes even mid expansion? jesus they wonder why people quit. Money cant buy consistent design/quality testing evidently. imagine a longer beta period. Juuuuust kidding, that wouldnt change anything. Problem is deeper yet.

    /minirantoff

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Frosteye View Post
    I mean if the ramp-up for EM in Legion was a problem you always had TfT to make it instant cast. The CD on TfT really isn't that long.

    Also REM randomly jumping around can be problematic if I want it to be on a certain target to spot-heal.

    There are just a lot of extra boxes to check, and overall we feel less versatile. We could respond to all of the same situations in Legion, and more.

    Being able to TfT>EM in Legion was huge and offered a lot of emergency healing potential. The 1 Sec SooM>ENVMist is not the same in BFA. Not to mention it doesn't have the same initial burst heal it had in Legion, unless you waste TfT.

    We honestly feel hog-tied to the Global Cooldown now, whereas in Legion you could heal on the go a lot better.

    For example if our group got into a sticky place in Legion that came up unexpectedly, I could TfT and double EnvMists two people beginning IMMEDIATELY. Now I have to: Cast SooM > Wait 1 sec > EM > change target > Cast SooM > Wait 1 sec > EM, etc.

    It's just slower and clunkier when responding to things. In the majority of situations hard-casting EM/Vivify was fine. But old-TfT let us respond to those emergencies a lot quicker than what we have now.
    Well if you compare with TFT then it's still better now as you just trade 1s of envm vs 1s of soom+statue+bonus heal on the TFTenvm. Then you were 1s ahead in vivfys in legion but as now they double heal with rem+ soom and statue continue while you cast them.. it's not just ramp up, sustained healing on ST is stronger now.
    And rem doesn't randomly jumps, it only jumps if the target is full hp and another one is not in range.

    TFT on envm advantage in legion is only (but it was great to have) that you could use it totally on the move, while now you have to "stutter" (but with 1s "only" it's ok most of the time), it was not an hps/burst advantage.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by klepp0906 View Post
    better place or not, perhaps they should have gotten it right in one of the last 15 incarnations of the class? Like... why is it we re-design every class/spec every single expansion? Sometimes even mid expansion? jesus they wonder why people quit. Money cant buy consistent design/quality testing evidently. imagine a longer beta period. Juuuuust kidding, that wouldnt change anything. Problem is deeper yet.

    /minirantoff
    Yeah... I dunno either.

    Legion had GREAT class fantasy, and they threw it all away

    For better or worse, Mistweaver feels "less complete" compared to Legion.

  6. #46
    I am Murloc! Schattenlied's Avatar
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    Just about every spec is barebones this expansion... welcome to "modern" WoW.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frosteye View Post

    Legion had GREAT class fantasy
    highly subjective, I disagree entirely... Actual class fantasy has been in the dumpster since the Legion prepatch landed as far as I'm concerned... We had great class fantasy before Legion, it got thrown away with the pruning.
    A gun is like a parachute. If you need one, and don’t have one, you’ll probably never need one again.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Schattenlied View Post
    Just about every spec is barebones this expansion... welcome to "modern" WoW.

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    highly subjective, I disagree entirely... Actual class fantasy has been in the dumpster since the Legion prepatch landed as far as I'm concerned... We had great class fantasy before Legion, it got thrown away with the pruning.
    Honestly I think Legion was better than WOD in *some* ways regarding class identity, but yes there was another round of pruning you're correct. After all was said and done though, class gameplay was still decent.

    But yeah, less and less abilities seems to be the norm for each new expansion. Soon WoW will be a MOBA.

  8. #48
    WW is 1 expansion behind enhance shaman with pruning. Legion WW was as good as MoP enhance. Enhance is terrible playstyle atm while in legion it was still semi fun. WW is currently semi fun stage. Next xpac it will be butchered to the no fun playstyle, ofc I hope I am wrong.

  9. #49
    This is the first expension since TBC where I main something other than my Holy Paladin (BfA HP is a dumpster fire...).
    I've played all heal specs, and the closest I got to plating something else was a RDruid.
    But the balls to the wall tank healing, nice mobility and good healing rotation makes MW the be-all healer for me atm.
    Even the RM into Vivify feels kinda like BoV but with less downtime and more control.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hightotemz View Post
    WW is 1 expansion behind enhance shaman with pruning. Legion WW was as good as MoP enhance. Enhance is terrible playstyle atm while in legion it was still semi fun. WW is currently semi fun stage. Next xpac it will be butchered to the no fun playstyle, ofc I hope I am wrong.
    Wrong spec, buddy.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Frosteye View Post
    I question the competency of any Mistweaver who says they never used Sheilun or Effuse in Legion.
    Okay..

    I guess the word "rarely" means something completely different for you than it does for everyone else.

    I get it, you were attached to those spells and you miss them. There is no need to be insulting about it to those who did not use them in raids that often. I find the current toolkit to be way more worthwhile and the spells and abilities actually mean something and I have to think about what I am casting and when instead of spamming effuse and then casting gift while hoping another healer did not do a fast nuke heal on the tank, rendering my heal essentially useless.

    Effuse was okayish in M+, for quick ST spot healing. But in a raid environment, was rarely ever used. If you looked at the logs from back then, you'd see that the majority of monks were not spamming it or using it that often in raids. Sheilun's gift was a gift when the spell was able to hit. I don't miss those spells at all.

    I much prefer it now as it is a lot more interactive and requires a bit more thought than playing whack-a-mole.

    I guess there were too many Mistweavers "Doing it wrong" in Legion, so they had to make cuts in BFA.
    Yep.

    That's why they changed it..

  11. #51
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Frosteye View Post
    I mean if the ramp-up for EM in Legion was a problem you always had TfT to make it instant cast. The CD on TfT really isn't that long.

    Also REM randomly jumping around can be problematic if I want it to be on a certain target to spot-heal.
    I don't agree with this. REM is not needed on the target you need to spot heal, it's an extra amount of healing someone else, who DOESN'T need spot healing right then, gets for free. For spot healing you vivify, with or without SM (plus EM if needed).

    Quote Originally Posted by Frosteye View Post
    It's just slower and clunkier when responding to things. In the majority of situations hard-casting EM/Vivify was fine. But old-TfT let us respond to those emergencies a lot quicker than what we have now.
    "Clunkier" seems a bit of a subjective term i don't know exactly how to address. You have a lot of control on how much healing you dish out on a specific target. That's great. You don't do very well if a lot of people decide to stand in crap at one time and refuse to move (to wreck the dps meters). If they do that, you will probably have to drink after every pack in m+ and in raids you have the holy priest(s) to deal with that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smag View Post
    This is the first expension since TBC where I main something other than my Holy Paladin (BfA HP is a dumpster fire...).
    I've played all heal specs, and the closest I got to plating something else was a RDruid.
    But the balls to the wall tank healing, nice mobility and good healing rotation makes MW the be-all healer for me atm.
    Even the RM into Vivify feels kinda like BoV but with less downtime and more control.
    This.

    Don't expect monks to be raid healers. It's now a tank healer that is (in my opinion) more fun, more mobile, more versatile, more accidental raid healing holy paladin.

  12. #52
    Deleted
    Antorus MW was fun to the max with legendaries and artifact. Velen+Revival every ~2 minutes was godly, and popping a 13mil sheilun's gift on a blood DK in purgatory with vampiric blood up? Magnificent.

  13. #53
    I just switched to monk from Hpally. Havn’t done mythic raids as a monk yet, but so far monk feels like such a better class. Healing with wings is fun but outside of that you basically manage a whole bunch of cds. As a monk you don’t have as many cd’s so it feels like it’s more important when I use them and I still feel like I can heal for crazy ammounts even when I have no cooldowns to hit.

  14. #54
    still loving my MW monk till this day more and more

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Powerogue View Post
    Maybe it being simpler will mean I can finally figure out how to do it properly. I'm an awful healer.
    On that note, yes it did. Mistweaver is now the only spec on any alt I have where I can actually heal with anything resembling competence.

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