Do you find MW a bit barebones this expansion?

[ribthanwa]

What extra did it have in it's kit? We lost effuse that's it.

2 minute revival, LC putting applying all of our hots, 13% damage reduction while sooming, and 60% slows around transcendance, and effusive mists were all pretty nice. BUT I'm fine trading most of that for the BFA soom changes. I miss the LC trait the most, honestly.

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Honestly with the long-ish GCD on Soothing Mist it almost feels like hardcasting Env/Vivify. I really didn't mind hardcasting in PVE for Legion, could still get Soothing Mist (AMA) for PVP.

Soom currently only incurs a 1 second gcd. Considering enveloping mist is a 2sec spell to cast, you should ALWAYS soom first as you save a second off the cast time and you get the soom healing.

[Frosteye]

2 minute revival, LC putting applying all of our hots, 13% damage reduction while sooming, and 60% slows around transcendance, and effusive mists were all pretty nice. BUT I'm fine trading most of that for the BFA soom changes. I miss the LC trait the most, honestly.

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Soom currently only incurs a 1 second gcd. Considering enveloping mist is a 2sec spell to cast, you should ALWAYS soom first as you save a second off the cast time and you get the soom healing.

Well yeah, but back in Legion you could TFT>EnvMist, and with a small amount of haste it was a bit less than 2 sec anyways.

SooM(AMA pvp talent) in Legion had a gcd of .5sec
SooM (BFA) has a gcd of 1.0 sec

For those of us dual pve/pve players SooM just feels slow af.

I didn't mind hardcasting in Legion anyway. Thunder focus tea gave us good flexibility when we needed it.

[ribthanwa]

Well yeah, but back in Legion you could TFT>EnvMist, and with a small amount of haste it was a bit less than 2 sec anyways.

SooM(AMA pvp talent) in Legion had a gcd of .5sec
SooM (BFA) has a gcd of 1.0 sec

For those of us dual pve/pve players SooM just feels slow af.

I didn't mind hardcasting in Legion anyway. Thunder focus tea gave us good flexibility when we needed it.

I mean, to counter your point, it may feel slower, but Soom does heal for pretty much the same amount of hps as evm (ignoring the %healing buff) for wayy less mana

[Powerogue]

Maybe it being simpler will mean I can finally figure out how to do it properly. I'm an awful healer.

[Frosteye]

I mean, to counter your point, it may feel slower, but Soom does heal for pretty much the same amount of hps as evm (ignoring the %healing buff) for wayy less mana

Sure, but in PVP it means you spend twice the amount of time juking/casting.

And since I used AMA a lot in Legion, I'm used to the faster GCD. Waiting for an artificial cooldown doesn't feel fun in BFA.


Bottom line Mistweaver has 2 less healing spells in BFA, and a LOT of lost bonus traits from the artifact that added some depth to our rotation. I also think the new Thunder Focus Tea bonuses are complete crap.

[Madelein]

MW isn't bad right now, but it does feel barebones.

Legion had a lot more in the healing kit, and it was overall a lot more fun I think.

It had more in the healing kit, but it was not worthwhile to have.

Legion MW was terrible for having spells that we simply ignored because they were not effective.

What we have now is usable, and worthwhile for us to use in raids and dungeons. There is more depth now with less spells, than it was in Legion when it had those two extra spells (one of which had such a long cast time, by the time it ended, 3/4 of the time in a raid, another healer had already topped up the person we were healing).

The only changes I would want, would be a slight boost to Revival and to bring our green dragon visual back when Revival is used, just for nostalgia really.

[Moxal]

I still really enjoy our kit.

My only lament is the Vivify-Mist interaction because of how few Mists we have out these days.

[Kithelle]

A lot of specs feel kinda bare bones with the loss of artifact weapons...some more than others as not ever spec even got access to any abilities from theirs.

[Raiz]

What we have now is usable, and worthwhile for us to use in raids and dungeons. There is more depth now with less spells, than it was in Legion when it had those two extra spells (one of which had such a long cast time, by the time it ended, 3/4 of the time in a raid, another healer had already topped up the person we were healing).

This is exactly why I don't miss that artifact ability at all.

[Frosteye]

It had more in the healing kit, but it was not worthwhile to have.

Legion MW was terrible for having spells that we simply ignored because they were not effective.

What we have now is usable, and worthwhile for us to use in raids and dungeons. There is more depth now with less spells, than it was in Legion when it had those two extra spells (one of which had such a long cast time, by the time it ended, 3/4 of the time in a raid, another healer had already topped up the person we were healing).

The only changes I would want, would be a slight boost to Revival and to bring our green dragon visual back when Revival is used, just for nostalgia really.

This is exactly why I don't miss that artifact ability at all.

What spells did you "not use" in Legion? I'm really curious because I used pretty much every healing spell that was given to us (yes including Sheilun).


You don't miss our artifact ability? You mean the 100% mana-efficient "nuke" heal that we had? If I combo'd EnvMist>Sheilun it would heal even a tank to full HP from near-death, and would cleave-heal another person for a pretty big amount. Or I could use it at lower stacks as a free heal. I don't know why you wouldn't miss it, unless you just weren't playing your class properly.

Also if your biggest gripe was "My heals were too slow to go out, and other healers were healing people up before me", that's a bit lame. Sure if you're farming Heroic Antorus for the 20th time, it's probably not going to be too difficult. Maybe your raid needs to bring less healers if there's not enough for you to do.


Personally I find the "less is more" mentality a bit insulting. I don't need my class streamlined so monkeys with an IQ of 50 can learn it, and bind all of their important abilities to an Xbox Controller.

[Rife]

Feels to me like Blizzard made MW a complete and properly fleshed out spec by reducing it to a 2-dimensional snooze.

Raid gameplay is 90% EF.
PvP is 90% Surging.
M+ is 90% Env/Viv.

I can't do much more than 1 or 2 keys at a time on my MW regardless of how strong it is because playing whack-a-mole with Viv/Env without any real spell interaction or synergy is boring. If I enjoyed MW DPS it would be a different story but 2 button DPS depth is just as bad as the 2 button healing depth.

If it wasn't for Disc priest being around I wouldn't be healing in WoW tbh.

[Raiz]

You don't miss our artifact ability? You mean the 100% mana-efficient "nuke" heal that we had? If I combo'd EnvMist>Sheilun it would heal even a tank to full HP from near-death, and would cleave-heal another person for a pretty big amount. Or I could use it at lower stacks as a free heal. I don't know why you wouldn't miss it, unless you just weren't playing your class properly.

Also if your biggest gripe was "My heals were too slow to go out, and other healers were healing people up before me", that's a bit lame. Sure if you're farming Heroic Antorus for the 20th time, it's probably not going to be too difficult. Maybe your raid needs to bring less healers if there's not enough for you to do.


Personally I find the "less is more" mentality a bit insulting. I don't need my class streamlined so monkeys with an IQ of 50 can learn it, and bind all of their important abilities to an Xbox Controller.

Say it all you like, it was simply useless. As lame as it sounds, there were simply better effective healing spells than this crappy artifact one. At best, It was just a lay on hand to top someone from maybe 90% life because that's the life he would have by the time you finish casting your EnvMist>Sheilun.

Also, never said less is more. I said I didn't miss it. I wish BfA didn't make all of the classes more simple to play. But Sheilun is a good ridance. And there are a few others that need to disappear. But hey, We all know Blizz is lazy with the changes.

[Extremite02]

I'm trying to get in to healing on my monk right now but I just can't stand the way Renewing Mist works. I'd much prefer if it didn't have a charge system (or CD for that matter) or if it stayed on the target I threw it on.

[Madelein]

What spells did you "not use" in Legion? I'm really curious because I used pretty much every healing spell that was given to us (yes including Sheilun).

Effuse.. Rarely ever used it.

And Gift.. Again, rarely ever used it. For reasons already stated.

You don't miss our artifact ability? You mean the 100% mana-efficient "nuke" heal that we had? If I combo'd EnvMist>Sheilun it would heal even a tank to full HP from near-death, and would cleave-heal another person for a pretty big amount. Or I could use it at lower stacks as a free heal. I don't know why you wouldn't miss it, unless you just weren't playing your class properly.

If you were solo healing, sure.

But we did not. 3/4 of the time, that big "100% mana-efficient "nuke" heal", which took so long to cast, was a waste of cast time, since by the time it had finished casting, another healer had already used their much faster cast heal, to "nuke heal" that same target, leaving me gritting my teeth at the waste of time Gift happened to be.

You obviously liked it and perhaps you were somewhat attached to it, and that's great that it worked for you. It's terrific that someone got some use out of it. But I did not.

Also if your biggest gripe was "My heals were too slow to go out, and other healers were healing people up before me", that's a bit lame. Sure if you're farming Heroic Antorus for the 20th time, it's probably not going to be too difficult. Maybe your raid needs to bring less healers if there's not enough for you to do.

Or the cast time of the heal, our supposed big "nuke heal" could have not been as long, and it would have worked much better for us? Considering we are very mobile healers to begin with, giving us a heal that required us to be in a proper position, with sufficient stacks, and then required us to stand still for what seemed like an indeterminable amount of time to cast it, half the time, another healer has just used one fast cast heal to top them up in the meantime, meaning it went to overheal.. It was not exactly a well designed ability, given the ramp up time.

Personally I find the "less is more" mentality a bit insulting. I don't need my class streamlined so monkeys with an IQ of 50 can learn it, and bind all of their important abilities to an Xbox Controller.

It's actually trickier to play now than it used to be back in Legion.

Those less spells requires you to be a bit more aware and coordinated in what you cast and when. Maybe you liked playing it like it was a Holy Priest? I think the way the class works now, allows us to actually think about how we heal. For example, EF is now a much more powerful spell when talented, gives us more range, it packs a much harder punch, and is much more effective and mana efficient in the long run. The manner in which vivify interacts with renewing mist, makes it a fun spell to use and is exceptionally good healing. The same applies with enveloping mist, with SooM, on a tank in a raid when there's heavy tank damage.. It feels like we are actually casting something, that isn't a stupidly long cast time and it works well with our class.

I am even enjoying MW more than my Disc at the moment. Sure, disc can wipe the floor with most MW, but at least with MW I'm having fun, I can switch from tank healing to raid healing with one EF and a few vivify's.. while still having my statue pump SooM into the tank.. By which point, I've left the disc and pally for dust, I go back to soothing on the tank, maybe a bit of dps to get my mana back in that downtime, while keeping renewing up. I enjoy that interaction now, instead of waiting for Gift to charge back up and then hope like hell the other healers were distracted enough for me to actually get the heal off..

To each their own I guess. You miss Legion MW.. I don't at all.

[Frosteye]

I question the competency of any Mistweaver who says they never used Sheilun or Effuse in Legion.

I guess there were too many Mistweavers "Doing it wrong" in Legion, so they had to make cuts in BFA.

[Caprix]

EF > spam effuse > quick 6+ stack sheilun was very mana efficient especially at the end of legion (with the last artifact traits + both t21 bonuses), indeed.

mana spells > chi spells > mana tea charges was very cool in wod

but... I still prefer having a toolkit suitable for almost all situation like it is now. WOD was horrible for any spot/tank/dungeon healing (bit better with the overpowered t18 set). Legion was meh. Now it simply works.

[ReD-EyeD]

But since BFA I just can't play this spec without feeling a bit bored.

Try DPSing if you're bored. You know, the thing you're supposed to do as a modern healer now. If you're standing still while just throwing heals around you're playing the game entirely wrong.

[ttylol]

Soom currently only incurs a 1 second gcd. Considering enveloping mist is a 2sec spell to cast, you should ALWAYS soom first as you save a second off the cast time and you get the soom healing.

That's my pet peeve, those buttons could basically be combined. They need to add some "friction" there, as Ion would say. And Thunder Focus Tea is almost as bad, ReM usually the best "choice" :\ (A.D.D bird animation is my other pet peeve)

So I think MW design could use a bit higher skill ceiling. Auto-targeting Essence Font and auto-jumping Renewing Mist is most of our raid healing, which is just too effective for how easy it is. Some ideas:

[Frosteye]

EF > spam effuse > quick 6+ stack sheilun was very mana efficient especially at the end of legion (with the last artifact traits + both t21 bonuses), indeed.

mana spells > chi spells > mana tea charges was very cool in wod

but... I still prefer having a toolkit suitable for almost all situation like it is now. WOD was horrible for any spot/tank/dungeon healing (bit better with the overpowered t18 set). Legion was meh. Now it simply works.

I agree with your assessment about WOD. However I found Legion MW to be viable in pretty much every situation (M+ or Raiding).

Spot Healing was pretty easy with Enveloping Mists, it also felt quite a bit stronger in Legion, but maybe it's just me.

I don't find the REM/Vivify mechanic to be "fun" or really consistent for that matter. Depending how the REMs jump around it can be fairly annoying to manage. Also if I want to heal into my Enveloping Mist I have to burn vivify which just feels wrong since it's my AOE Heal.

I agree that BFA Mistweaver is "functional", but it's very apparent that they cut corners and streamlined things when they didn't need to.

That's my pet peeve, those buttons could basically be combined. They need to add some "friction" there, as Ion would say. And Thunder Focus Tea is almost as bad, ReM usually the best "choice" :\ (A.D.D bird animation is my other pet peeve)

So I think MW design could use a bit higher skill ceiling. Auto-targeting Essence Font and auto-jumping Renewing Mist is most of our raid healing, which is just too effective for how easy it is. Some ideas:

Good ideas. I agree about Surging Mist/Lifecycles. I wish Thunder Focus Tea was also more of a utility spell still, rather than a throughput bonus.

tft
EM: Instant Cast
Vivify: Something other than mana cost?
Surging Mist (PVP): PLEASE GIVE IT A BONUS
EssenceFont: Reduce channeling time (similar to Legion, might have to be altered for Upwelling)

[Caprix]

I agree with your assessment about WOD. However I found Legion MW to be viable in pretty much every situation (M+ or Raiding).

Spot Healing was pretty easy with Enveloping Mists, it also felt quite a bit stronger in Legion, but maybe it's just me.

it's just stronger now, especially on single target. By the time your envM landed in legion you now already have 2s of soom+statue, and 1s of envm hot rolling. Next vivify is coming in 0.5s only (so 1s earlier), and will heal twice because of the rem, and statue and soom will continue healing while you "cast" it. If you ever need to refresh envm and continue healing the same target you gain 0.5s+ once again soom and statue not stopping every time you cast. You are way, way ahead of legion healing.
With a bit of setup your cleave is also better as you can heal 4 or all 5 (not so reliable for 5) targets with it.

I mention statue because you can use it as it does real healing now. It also helps a bit in cleave as you can leave it on a priority target (which you couldn't in legion if you ever tried to use it)

A few things are missing from Legion here: the big Sheilun once in a while, EnvM on the move with TFT, damage reduction from soom.. that's it.