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  1. #221
    Deleted
    Well... i don't see a big problem with curve. But the addon is pretty cancerous. I have never used it, nor will, but it does look like it's toxic to scan players like that and give people points for doing whatever the addon creators say. If players are having to comply to this design, this is not the wow developers design and really should be squashed.

  2. #222
    Raider.io is extremely bad for the game.

    The way the game is SUPPOSED to work is the game should encourage experienced players to tutor new players on how to run dungeons. This creates a positive environment for everyone, increases the size of the playerbase, is ultimately more fun for everyone involved and puts more money in Blizzard's pocket as subs increase.

    M+ does everything wrong. It PUNISHES people if they want to tutor new players because of the time limit. It trains people to look at inexperienced players as a pain in the butt to be eliminated instead of new players to be brought along and trained. It encourages antisocial play and creates a very negative environment for new players.

    M+ is almost literally cancer for WoW.

  3. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by JajaBongs View Post
    And Gearscore couldn't be cheesed by being carried? Okay, of course not.
    Beside that, Gearscore weighted items god damn wrong so many times. You could simply have crappy high ilvl trinkets and your gearscore went up while it would have been worse in bis gear.

    Also, GL getting carried in everything above +10. If the whole group does not do what they have to do they won't have success.
    But why would you care about raider.io scores if you can get high scores while getting carried? Then you should have a high score, right?
    1.) I literally stated that all these systems can be cheesed. LTR.
    2.) Can we stop pretending that your average joe tries to get into a +14 group atm? That is just a ludicrous strawman. Everyone and their mother is currently aiming for the +10 to get a shot at a mythic raiding level item and that's it. You can wank yourself silly with your 2k score for all I care but that is simply not the reality of the current meta ingame.

  4. #224
    It's not ruining the game, i reserve the right to not play with shitters and to have a quick and easy run.

  5. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by Aedomys View Post
    Yes. Because like at the WOTLK period, ilvl is an obvious secure way to be sure someone knows his shit, like, I mean, you totally can't get into a group while being a total retard, get carried and ending up with the raider.io or curve progression. This shit is flawless you see.
    The number of people getting carried is relatively low. If I find a player with a m+ score of 1k then the chance of him being a good player is very high.

  6. #226
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by ToxicFlame View Post
    if i fail it because of a legit emergency that's obv not a problem, although verifing the truth can be rather difficult.
    If you leave randomly "cuz you have to go eat" i think you deserve a temporary ban from group content.

    people use knifes in a stupid way, doesn't mean we ban them. Don't punish those that do it properly because some fucktards abuse it
    Admitting it or not, it will be abused, mostly by fucktard. And in a way it is. Not complaining i cant get into a +11, complaining about getting into low keys , that the problem you get with "normal" players.

    Gear-score, itemlvl etc, was , is , became, shit , not because people used it correctly , it - is / became . shit because people abused it .

    Mostly who "suffer" from that kind of shit are the "casuals" people who have family's , are nearly 30 etc and play the game over a decade, and cant afford to play it 4-8 h a day , and spam stuff, and hope that RNG is good.

    Ya before it was hard, you got loot , you got ninja d, but in the end when you got something you GOT it.

    Still i blame Blizz for poor optimization, gear invention, upgrading, stats, ( cool effect that are usable etc ) if gear , and titan-forging would not be bullshit, item lvl etc would disper

  7. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    Raider.io is extremely bad for the game.

    The way the game is SUPPOSED to work is the game should encourage experienced players to tutor new players on how to run dungeons. This creates a positive environment for everyone, increases the size of the playerbase, is ultimately more fun for everyone involved and puts more money in Blizzard's pocket as subs increase.

    M+ does everything wrong. It PUNISHES people if they want to tutor new players because of the time limit. It trains people to look at inexperienced players as a pain in the butt to be eliminated instead of new players to be brought along and trained. It encourages antisocial play and creates a very negative environment for new players.

    M+ is almost literally cancer for WoW.
    I don’t want to tutor people when I come home from a long days work. I want to play with other people who are on the same level as me. And I’m allowed to do that without being called a bad person.

  8. #228
    I would counter and say that it's not those features that ruin the game but bad/lazy players who don't want to put the effort in and make it necessary to rely on the above mentioned ways.

  9. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by Verkaik View Post
    Considering I sold carries for 10 years and have a balance of over 40 million gold and several tgc mounts resting in a bank from when I exceeding the old realm gold cap I'm not sure I am poor.

    Sales for mounts and transmog were things. The concept of using them as a gearing method is fairly new. I don't really recall it taking off till wod to unlock mythic caches.

    You might be right on garrosh I only sold mounts not heirlooms that tier.
    I have 40,000,001 gold, so I'm richer because this is the internet and you can make up whatever you need to.

    The first sale runs I've done in WoW were in Molten Core and in EverQuest 7 years before that. Buying has been around a long time and it was very accessible to anyone that looked for a means for more than 10 seconds.

  10. #230
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    Raider.io is extremely bad for the game.

    The way the game is SUPPOSED to work is the game should encourage experienced players to tutor new players on how to run dungeons. This creates a positive environment for everyone, increases the size of the playerbase, is ultimately more fun for everyone involved and puts more money in Blizzard's pocket as subs increase.
    Different players, different view points. I commend people that want to tutor others but at the same time I don't chastise those who don't. The game is there to enjoy as you see fit, if it's forcing you to act a way that you don't particularly enjoy then that's far more detrimental to your game experience.

    M+ does everything wrong. It PUNISHES people if they want to tutor new players because of the time limit. It trains people to look at inexperienced players as a pain in the butt to be eliminated instead of new players to be brought along and trained. It encourages antisocial play and creates a very negative environment for new players.

    M+ is almost literally cancer for WoW.
    Tutoring does exist for M+, it's just about teaching people the optimal routes and the most time efficient way of dealing with affixes. The only thing is that doesn't happen much on high keys, which is fine as the difficulty curve there is significantly higher.

  11. #231
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    I don’t want to tutor people when I come home from a long days work. I want to play with other people who are on the same level as me. And I’m allowed to do that without being called a bad person.
    You don't want to play an MMO then. An MMO thrives if is a social game with a strong community. You are playing the wrong game. There is literally no advantage for an MMO to cater to your type of player. You'll just make a toxic environment and drive customers away. Why do that?

  12. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    You don't want to play an MMO then. An MMO thrives if is a social game with a strong community. You are playing the wrong game. There is literally no advantage for an MMO to cater to your type of player. You'll just make a toxic environment and drive customers away. Why do that?
    How is he creating a toxic environment.

    He just wants to play with people that are on the same level, not boost people or get carried.

  13. #233
    Quote Originally Posted by QuiksLE View Post
    How is he creating a toxic environment.

    He just wants to play with people that are on the same level, not boost people or get carried.
    Helping other people is part of the deal in an MMO. If you aren't doing that, you're toxic.

  14. #234
    Deleted
    With the current way of gearing, there's really no way of telling who is bad and who is good. An achievement isn't exactly telling, but raider io and curve are currently the only real/best ways of knowing who you should invite to maximize your chance of success.

  15. #235
    If anything that data should be bought into the game so we don't need external sites to do it.

    You own record for M+ and raiding should be right there in the game API, ready for display in the group finder.

  16. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    You don't want to play an MMO then. An MMO thrives if is a social game with a strong community. You are playing the wrong game. There is literally no advantage for an MMO to cater to your type of player. You'll just make a toxic environment and drive customers away. Why do that?
    I’m raiding 3 nights a week with my guild and I enjoy that very much. Playing with 20 other people on equal level is really fun. I think you are making some wierd rules of what a MMO should be. I enjoy WoW very much but I just don’t want to tutor random people. If someone joins our guild raid team and is a bit behind then of course I don’t mind helping him or her out. But I don’t want to tutor some random person in a m+ who I am never going to meet again.

  17. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    Helping other people is part of the deal in an MMO. If you aren't doing that, you're toxic.
    So you're saying that I'm toxic, if I don't boost a fresh 120 with no gear and no idea how dungeons work through a +10?

    EDIT: Also by that logic I am toxic because I am in a guild

  18. #238
    Brewmaster Alkizon's Avatar
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    Thumbs down

    Another logical consequence of changes. Akin to the stupid oQ, auto-quests party and others system.

    1) Main reason still is cross realm activity, destruction of community, irresponsibility for their own actions, indifference to themselves and others. Progressing go-go-go mentality (system drives/shepherd by itself), aggravated by devs' decisions. I don't want to go into much details, but point is that due to destruction of game basic paradigm of relationships (mechanisms/conditions that responsible for it), crutch become needed. No, no one obviously is going to reset the limb

    2) Automation is bad. I understand, that with such a “fast” gameplay and ever-increasing needs of its acceleration, templating/routine the process it's happen, that appears demand on systems that will take a certain part of functions from person (ex. memorizing people, but why if there're so many different people that they can't just be remembered for a day, but even no meaning for that, since meeting will unlikely ever be repeated, why not rely on a system that helps you to “count points” then, but it still shows only “shadow”, not the player, is it possible to get relationships with person by only seen the shadow?). But anyway, do you want to play yourself or watch how game does everything for you/controls you? In this case, you shift to automation the process, which initially had significant place and importance in game relations system, of course it slowed down your game progress in a natural way (content absorption rate), but also enriched your experience and knowledge, expanded your personal skills, taught you, trained your behavior. I suppose that final decision still remains with person, but anyway this is devil sitting on your shoulder commenting/trying to impose/incline you to its side. Maybe it’s better not to let him do this, refrain from information, enrich own experience, take initiative? Are you sure there are enough variables? Are you sure that it will take into account all possible factors? How much can you rely on this information? Does decision not lose its "soul"/human part? How far can it go and how much human experience do you lose in exchange for time? Is the deal fair? Is it useful for you/community/game?

    Next <1> <2> <3> + 4 + <5> <6> <7>

    ps. Will this decision be accurate? Yes, it's very possible. But will it be right? I doubt it very much.

    <How to solve this issue>
    Last edited by Alkizon; 2020-05-12 at 05:29 AM.
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  19. #239
    Dreadlord JackWest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    Helping other people is part of the deal in an MMO. If you aren't doing that, you're toxic.
    There is difference between "helping" and "hand-holding" or "boosting"

    Showing your tank a better and more optimal route, for example, is one thing. However, them having no idea what to do with trash(interrupt or stun), have 0 clue what bosses do, so end up dying all the time. All that because they wanna jump straight into a +5 for example, instead of reading the journal, doing the dungeon on m0, then on 2-3, and then go higher. I am not gonna do people's work for them, and tbh expecting to be hand-held through everything in the game is 100x more toxic than wanting to spend your time with like minded individuals

    P.S. I am not making this up. In legion I legit met a person, who after dying to every trash pack, admitted he's never done the dungeon before. Ever. Yet, he joined for a +15....I only took him back then because I felt like giving a low scored person a chance. Ironically, thats how it turns out most times
    Last edited by JackWest; 2018-10-10 at 11:35 AM.
    Raider and multi-classer currently on:
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  20. #240
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Aedomys View Post
    People really need to stop using Raider.io and Curve, in fact, Blizzard should just shut them down or block APIs to keep them from scanning chars. People are turning into litteral mongoloids using this and it ruines the game. It's just like the mess the game became at WOTLK when the addon Gearscore was introduced, people went ape shit with delirious prerequisites to enter raids or M+. Just look at Uldir, the next week after it's opening, people were already checking Raider.Io, Curve, or whatever aids was invented to scan progression, and if you didn't down G'huun the first week, well you are fucked.

    I don't know if Blizzard guys get onto this forum, but really, Raider.io and Curve need to be put down for the sake of the game not being ruined by morons that can't bear to just be decent people and just play without being monkeys and ask for every dungeon to be a literally a carry.
    Raid was released 5 weeks ago, we're now in the 6th week, I hit 120 3 weeks ago, and got curve last week (in a pug may I add).

    Judging by how you're speaking to people here, I imagine you don't have curve, and you don't get along with pug groups, or get invited to them, perhaps it's because your attitude is bad? Idk.

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