Raider.io and Curve are ruining the game, wake up people.

[dacoolist]

If you can't get into a group: Make your own group for Heroic/Mythicc+ and move on.. I don't see a problem RIGHT

[Surreality]

For a game that is supposely a MMO, people playing together. People are creating tools to segregate themselves into smaller groups.

I find it rather hypocritical for the community as whole where people are complaining about the state of community etc and yet embrace and promote the use of add on that segregate and screen out people they do not want to associate with.

That is my view anyway.

Finding ways to segregate ourselves is what humans do. We've done it throughout the entire course of our history. We are a combative species, not a competitive one. If we don't create things to argue and fight about, then we... well, I don't know what because I've never personally seen a day go by where some person isn't trying to harm, exploit, or belittle someone else.

[Gref]

I returned to game around the end of legion after had to quit at SoO. I had no idea what was raider.io and mythic. Because when I quit, they meant nothing but cosmetics. I came back and when I tried a mythic for the first time after understanding it is the new challenging content in the game. People were was this thing called io score. Looked for it, downloaded, did some reading and I worked my score up to near 950. All by myself + and 4 randoms. 950 both as tank and dps. I did it as a casual. I have a crazy wife and a job that lets me only be available for 2 hours in weekdays each night - supposing I can play. Weekends are sometimes not possible too. I can only raid on saturday sunday nights. but I got heroic aotc as well.

anybody complaining about raider.io should git gut. simple as that. it hurts to accept but if i could do it, anybody can do it. I sucked, I made mistakes, I got kicked etc. but in the end I now sit at 950 io. It is my aim to make it over 1k before the season ends.

be patient, dont expect instant gratification. do keys on your level. it really makes difference in higher keys. I swear no +2 people can pull off what is necessary in a +11. skill, technique, ilvls all of that. simply impossible. you would be asking others to carry you. this is a fact. raider.io has no problem. it is doing its job. you just need to get better and be patient. I have been working on my io since bfa start. and still have 950 this late.

[Lubsin]

I started a group for a +2 shrine, didn't bother checking io or even asking for some ridiculous item level requirement like "350+" because it's a +2. Sad to say, we didn't make it to the second boss lol. Sooo with that being said, I'm all for raider.io

[Gref]

I started a group for a +2 shrine, didn't bother checking io or even asking for some ridiculous item level requirement like "350+" because it's a +2. Sad to say, we didn't make it to the second boss lol. Sooo with that being said, I'm all for raider.io

absolutely.I have wasted 6 keys in siege of boralus because people did not know that they have to lure first boss to the bombs.

[Acidmetal]

Raider.io m+ score is probably the only progress I do in WoW right now. The game itself does not offer any features or content to progress in. Mythic raid is the only other thing to progress in, we're at mythic Zul and raids happen only during certain times of the week.

If there would be no Raider.io score, there would literally nothing to do in WoW, running m+ would have no meaning, pushing high m+ keys would have no meaning, since Blizzard does not reward you for doing high keys. The 370 gear that drops from at the end of every dungeon offers no upgrades because the chance of procing up on correct stats item is too low. We run literally 3-4 15+ keys almost every single day, not seen an upgrade from the dungeon end chests, nor weekly chest for months now.

[Marrilaife]

The problem is that the reward system is attracting both players to the same activity. Everyone wants to get better gear, thus everyone will want to do a m+10 each week, best player and worst player. Sadly there are only 2 solutions, one is the current one with artificial numbers put next to the name. Which works to some degree, but obviously also blocks out capable players from content. The other solution would be to reduce the difficulty where the good players can carry the bad players and just need the warm body for some extra DPS. At this point prestige is long gone and there are groups carrying these bad players for gold anyway. Might as well let good players just carry bad ones without much hassle.

The game already throws free gear at people from braindead content like warfronts and worldbosses, so let's dumb down the dungeons too or award top gear from daily heroic because everyone wants their gear? The reward structure is already deep into welfare state and participation award area with titanforging and free handouts. Next step is giving gear to people for being subbed and logging in, because they want the gear, and Blizz wants the subs and the login metrics. "Why should I work for anything, I pay 15$ a month already isn't it enough?" type of excuse.

Gearscore, Raider.io, Curve etc are just a consequence of how grindy the game has become.

No, they're the consequence of erosion of social bonds in the game, so when it comes to constantly grouping with unknown players you can't vouch for, you start needing extra tools to figure out whether they're capable or not. However, there is no perfect tool when it comes to replacing knowing the person. Unfortunately, that's what the "community" wanted, to have no community, to not be dependent on guilds and other social ties, and have "1 click to group & go" accessibility. Next step is people want auto-matchmaking for everything because grouping apparently isn't simplified enough.

The problem I see with your argument (and Marxism in general) is that there is no objective truth, just an opinion that people should not be selfish and that systems should (and could) be made which would force people to stop being selfish.

Unfortunately the success of the whole system relied on everyone to be honest and not abuse it. And that's why it always fails, every single time. In the perfect communist utopia weaker people are "carried" or catered to, and their needs are covered, but in exchange they do their best to contribute the best they can in their limited capability. However every single human community always has leeches, beggars, exploiters of others' good will, lazy people who don't care to give anything back as long as they can get away with it, etc. And that's why marxism, communism and idyllic utopias always crumble or turn into despotic caricature of itself.

[Qnubi]

The game already throws free gear at people from braindead content like warfronts and worldbosses, so let's dumb down the dungeons too or award top gear from daily heroic because everyone wants their gear? The reward structure is already deep into welfare state and participation award area with titanforging and free handouts. Next step is giving gear to people for being subbed and logging in, because they want the gear, and Blizz wants the subs and the login metrics. "Why should I work for anything, I pay 15$ a month already isn't it enough?" type of excuse.

No, that's not what I was going to follow up with. Just that gear as a reward is a bad idea for the highest content, gear is something everyone craves and wants to get to become stronger. The highest endgame should reward something desirable unrelated to power. Be it mounts/Titles, or exclusives hangouts like an order hall where only +10 players that beat every dungeon can go to. Hell, it could even be unlocking FLYING prior to the masses. Let's assume +7 yields the weekly 380 ilvl from the chest, this would be pretty easy (compared to +10). If you end up in a sucky group you will still most likely finish it with maybe 1-2 wipes instead of 5+.

Gear is the MAIN factor people want to do content they are not qualified to do, it's so alluring that they even pay money/gold to get it. I predict the game to improve vastly in terms of community if the gear would cap at +7 m+ and for example heroic raiding. Mythic raiding and high mythic keys should still unlock stuff, but it could be anything from shorter CD for the whistle, to mounts/titles to special places and unlocking flying prior to patch 8.x.

You even help my argument by saying that gear has lost all it's meaning and value in terms of prestige, so it does not even work as a way to determine who is good/bad. (that's why people use RIO and not ilvl to pick players)