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  1. #481
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    If they were ever made playable, I agree that neutrality would be the best choice, given that's how our own characters approach Covenants.

    I don't know about the ascension idea though. I saw T&E talk about it, and it makes sense but involves a lot of permanence that I don't think people are going to want to adopt. Shadowlands is going to be less relevant as we move forward to different expansions, not more relevant. To me, the shadowlands races are gonna be like Hozen/Jinyu being asked for as playable races when MoP was hot. Legion's races all got the benefit of being Allied Races following into BFA which made a big deal out of it, but I expect the focus to shift for the next expansion to something bigger than just Allied Races or Covenant carry overs.

    I honestly feel like them doing the Allied Race thing for the Shadowlands races is just gonna bloat what they've already been unable to handle. Like content-wise, this expansion has already been suffering, and I don't see them drawing it out and dedicating more resources to elaborating these races into playable form when they could easily be spending that development time on pushing out the next big content theme instead. I feel like with 9.2 not even talked about yet and with 9.3 possibly completely cut out, a lot of these Covenant stories might not even get the proper story conclusions after we leave Shadowlands. They'll more likely be left behind as entry-level NPCs like Sethrak and Drust, while the primary focus of the 9.2 content will be straight into the Maw.
    Honestly I agree; Shadowlands races just feel less likely to become Allied Races than everything we have seen, but I don't discount the idea that they might want to push playability for them in order to have something shiny and new to keep people engaged during the hiatus.

    I think that's the question for me; do they move as quickly as they can to the next exp, or do they try to milk more content from Shadowlands for the hiatus? I would go with the former, but yeah who knows.

    It just might be that since the SL races are indeed reworked existing races (sans Venthyr) they could milk them a bit further.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mungho View Post
    But, you just said in your opening paragraph that you'd like the Shadowlands AR's to be neutral, but then show them being divided by faction.
    I'm just saying it could potentially have a factioned approach; I literally say that I prefer neutrality, but I can see a way how it could work under the faction dichotomy.

    Like this is all speculation; SL AR's are far from a certainty, and while I'd personally like that if they happen they would be neutral, I really can't assure anything. I'm speculating on how they could be implemented.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Yes, i get it. They are beings of a different realm. The afterlives are not that mysterious anymore. and the beings there are not that special.
    I really don't think you do. They are literally beings with a higher purpose that goes beyond the political struggles of ONE mortal world. Like any proposal that doesn't try to approach the metaphysical and ideological divide feels shallow, and you don't go into any sort of depth into what motivation and context would make these races want to come to Azeroth and join a faction war.

    Not applicable, as it would mean that the Shadowlands races would be able to be every class.
    lmao or maybe there's just a restriction as to what classes can "ascend"

  2. #482
    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post
    Honestly I agree; Shadowlands races just feel less likely to become Allied Races than everything we have seen, but I don't discount the idea that they might want to push playability for them in order to have something shiny and new to keep people engaged during the hiatus.

    I think that's the question for me; do they move as quickly as they can to the next exp, or do they try to milk more content from Shadowlands for the hiatus? I would go with the former, but yeah who knows.
    I'd love for the latter to be the case since I think there's a lot of lore potential in Shadowlands, and exploring more than just the 4 realms. We've only scratched the surface of the afterworld here.

    But realistically speaking, things have been moving slower than a snail's pace, and it's absolutely backwards to expect us to stay any longer than necessary when most people are already waiting on the next expansion and sick and tired of the main Sylvanas-centric storyline as it is.

    Any aims for new races should really be placed on what could be coming up next, as it really should always be. Races being added in retrospect of the expansion just feels like 'filler', like they couldn't plan anything better for that expansion so they have to take the best bits of the last one to fill in the gaps. That's exactly how I felt about the Race additions in BFA. It wasn't as much a crowd pleaser as much as fulfilling a status quo for (a lack of) Expansion Features
    Last edited by Triceron; 2021-10-19 at 11:09 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  3. #483
    Quote Originally Posted by Mungho View Post
    Oh, I can't believe I forgot about the Stoneborn! Them playable would be so awesome, but I worry about what others say about inhabitants of the Shadowlands fighting for Horde/Alliance.



    But, you just said in your opening paragraph that you'd like the Shadowlands AR's to be neutral, but then show them being divided by faction.
    That how fellow Horde enjoyers think, "MUH HORDE IS NOT MONSTERS. THEY ARE GOOD GUYS" then proceed to ask for monster races that specialize in rape,cannibalism or genocide.
    Just ask 100 people from horde which faction would neutral vampires join, and i bet 99 of them gonna play it like.... "you know monster races are all at horde, and blood elfs almost got their almost vampire race so so, let goats and angels go alliance but not like we are bad guys but we don't want any goody two shoes races at horde, how we gonna play victim then?"
    I want these classes in new x-pac Necromancer,RuneMaster,Warden,BladeMaster,DarkRanger,Dragonsworn,Alchemist,Bard,Spellbreak er

  4. #484
    Titan Maxilian's Avatar
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    Damn, the Allied Races that I mostly ones are "repeated" skeletons, but mostly because I want some races to be "complete", like the Ice Dwarfs in Stormpeak or the Taunka and Yaungol, and many of the other Troll clans

  5. #485
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxilian View Post
    Damn, the Allied Races that I mostly ones are "repeated" skeletons, but mostly because I want some races to be "complete", like the Ice Dwarfs in Stormpeak or the Taunka and Yaungol, and many of the other Troll clans
    These are some of my favorites, too! Another would be Fel Orc ...

    Let's face it. Blizz has a problem by having too many interesting races. Making them playable would be a great new feature, but demand a ton of resources to be done right. I mean skins, models, areas and lore. It isn't that Blizz couldn't do it, but it would demand a change of philosophy and an effort to balance things out.

    Thinking about balance made reconsider the options for Covenant Races: Wouldn't it be better if we got six? Venthyr, Stoneborn and Skeletons(or Gladiators) as Horde and Sylvars, Winged Kyrians and Stewards as Alliance?

    It might sound like a joke, but consider this: The Horde got Vulpera, a smaller, fluffy race. Why shouldn't the Alliance get another? They are practically made to serve and so fit right in to some of the Alliance's more light-oriented factions.

  6. #486
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    An Ogre female model would most likely be based on the female Kul Tiran skeleton.
    I also dont see that happening.. the kul tiran arent realy popular.. Looking at the rexxar model which looks way better. Hopefully they go that route and not kul tiran female. Right now there is no female version, but its possible we just dont know.

    Who says we get maldraxxus as a covenant playable or any at all? We have no confirmation that they will. Besides the maldraxxus covenant has no real focus on 1 race, they are just a bunch of undead creatures and the gladiators are just guards.. so idk man.

    They would need to be made playable.. kyrian and venthyr seem more likely, but even they use alot of attachted armor pieces and not very player gear ready. So they need work.. and the question is: will they even?? No one knows, its just speculation.
    Please read this blizzard: https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...m_source=share also what could have been possible with Nightborne--> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLr5dDXn5nE

  7. #487

  8. #488
    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post
    I really don't think you do. They are literally beings with a higher purpose that goes beyond the political struggles of ONE mortal world. Like any proposal that doesn't try to approach the metaphysical and ideological divide feels shallow, and you don't go into any sort of depth into what motivation and context would make these races want to come to Azeroth and join a faction war.
    And yet, we are the only mortals there who impact that realm. We are special. We are the chosen ones. We are the champions, heroes and stuff... You treat us like we haven't been upgraded into literal god-slayers. It's not just any world. It's Azeroth - the mortal of which saved their entire realm from damnation. The reason is very simple (as was with the other allied races): we helped them. We gained reputation with them. We peaked their interest. We allied with them and we forged a bond with them. The Kyrian even say how they want to visit our planet. There's no need for a complex explanation like you make it seem like.

    lmao or maybe there's just a restriction as to what classes can "ascend"
    Which, doesn't make sense. Why would one and not the other? any class can die and become a covenant "champion". There's no distinction in the Shadowlands.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hardwing View Post
    Thinking about balance made reconsider the options for Covenant Races: Wouldn't it be better if we got six? Venthyr, Stoneborn and Skeletons(or Gladiators) as Horde and Sylvars, Winged Kyrians and Stewards as Alliance?
    Not going to happen. It's one from each covenant.
    Stoneborn use the Metamorphosis/Arrakoa skeleton, which is not on a playable standard.
    Skeletons, while they use the Kul Tiran skeleton, do not have a female model (and cannot have, since skeletons lack genders).
    Stewards do not posses two gender models, as well.
    You're unlikely to get winged Kyrian, but the wingless ones.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alanar View Post
    I also dont see that happening.. the kul tiran arent realy popular.. Looking at the rexxar model which looks way better. Hopefully they go that route and not kul tiran female. Right now there is no female version, but its possible we just dont know.

    What does popularity have to do with it? They added new Kul Tiran skeletons for that occasion exactly, while all other allied races were rehashed ones. By the way, Rexxar is using a Kul Tiran skeleton.

    Who says we get maldraxxus as a covenant playable or any at all? We have no confirmation that they will. Besides the maldraxxus covenant has no real focus on 1 race, they are just a bunch of undead creatures and the gladiators are just guards.. so idk man.
    One from each covenant. Only the Gladiators have a male and a female counterparts. And, they are very likely, since these races are almost on par with playable ones.

    They would need to be made playable.. kyrian and venthyr seem more likely, but even they use alot of attachted armor pieces and not very player gear ready. So they need work.. and the question is: will they even?? No one knows, its just speculation.
    So is almost every race before it becomes playable. Hardly a reason against.
    All things point to them becoming playable sometime in the future.
    I'm tempted to apply for a moderator position, just so i can go moderator on your asses.

  9. #489
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    And yet, we are the only mortals there who impact that realm. We are special. We are the chosen ones. We are the champions, heroes and stuff... You treat us like we haven't been upgraded into literal god-slayers. It's not just any world. It's Azeroth - the mortal of which saved their entire realm from damnation. The reason is very simple (as was with the other allied races): we helped them. We gained reputation with them. We peaked their interest. We allied with them and we forged a bond with them. The Kyrian even say how they want to visit our planet. There's no need for a complex explanation like you make it seem like.



    Which, doesn't make sense. Why would one and not the other? any class can die and become a covenant "champion". There's no distinction in the Shadowlands.



    Not going to happen. It's one from each covenant.
    Stoneborn use the Metamorphosis/Arrakoa skeleton, which is not on a playable standard.
    Skeletons, while they use the Kul Tiran skeleton, do not have a female model (and cannot have, since skeletons lack genders).
    Stewards do not posses two gender models, as well.
    You're unlikely to get winged Kyrian, but the wingless ones.




    What does popularity have to do with it? They added new Kul Tiran skeletons for that occasion exactly, while all other allied races were rehashed ones. By the way, Rexxar is using a Kul Tiran skeleton.



    One from each covenant. Only the Gladiators have a male and a female counterparts. And, they are very likely, since these races are almost on par with playable ones.



    So is almost every race before it becomes playable. Hardly a reason against.
    All things point to them becoming playable sometime in the future.
    I mean this is just your own opinion that you think its likely, again there is no reason to believe that. Yes they use kul tiran model and happen to have a female model, but that is no reason to believe they will become playable.. they are just guards and nothing else and honestly.. they have no faces at all! They just never felt like playable material to me. If any.. would be these skeleton dudes with hair and unique bone features, but even that doesnt scream playable to me. They could be.. but at this point its any ones guess, but saying its likely is a bit to much.

    Yes its just speculation.. maybe we get all covenants, maybe just 2 or none at all. Legion ar didnt give us Vrykul or broken when they were more likely then covenant races are in general, but we also didnt got them.

    Popularity is and will always be a motivator for devs why do you think void elves excist?
    Last edited by Alanar; 2021-10-20 at 03:46 PM.
    Please read this blizzard: https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...m_source=share also what could have been possible with Nightborne--> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLr5dDXn5nE

  10. #490
    Quote Originally Posted by Alanar View Post
    I mean this is just your own opinion that you think its likely, again there is no reason to believe that.
    Are you aware of Allied race addition pattern?
    Male and Female counterparts? ✓
    Up-to-date textures and animations? ✓
    Several customization options? ✓
    Unique animations? ✓
    Usage of pre-existing skeletal rig?✓
    Unplayable fantasy creatures? ✓

    Yes they use kul tiran model and happen to have a female model, but that is no reason to believe they will become playable.. they are just guards and nothing else and honestly.. they have no faces at all! They just never felt like playable material to me.
    Guards... they have an entire house dedicated to them.

    If any.. would be these skeleton dudes with hair and unique bone features, but even that doesnt scream playable to me. They could be.. but at this point its any ones guess, but saying its likely is a bit to much.
    Skeletons would not become playable. You cannot differentiate between genders.

    Yes its just speculation.. maybe we get all covenants, maybe just 2 or none at all. Legion ar didnt give us Vrykul or broken when they were more likely then covenant races are in general, but we also didnt got them.
    Why would you give 2 and neglect the others? Unless further patches introduce new possible races, the four covenant one are the best options we have.

    Popularity is and will always be a motivator for devs why do you think void elves excist?
    Because of Dark elves in fantasy RPG, that's why.
    Last edited by username993720; 2021-10-20 at 04:25 PM.
    I'm tempted to apply for a moderator position, just so i can go moderator on your asses.

  11. #491
    Quote Originally Posted by Alanar View Post
    I also dont see that happening.. the kul tiran arent realy popular.. Looking at the rexxar model which looks way better. Hopefully they go that route and not kul tiran female. Right now there is no female version, but its possible we just dont know.
    This hit the nail on the head for me.

    I don't see why anyone would lobby for a faceless Maldraxxian Gladiator when they're literally using the same bodytype as Rexxar, and the Mok'nathal have a much deeper connection to the Horde already as well as having a functional face and animations to go with.

    The Shadowlands races are all tied to the Shadowlands, and the whole Gladiator thing is kind of messed up lore since we see major lore characters in the House of the Chosen choosing their own forms rather than be the faceless Gladiator variety. Lady Vashj is literally there telling you how she chose her form. Draka and Morgraine also retain their old forms. That should speak volumes about how the Houses operate, and every other faceless soldier NPC is literally a faceless soldier.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  12. #492
    The Insane Val the Moofia Boss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    You're unlikely to get winged Kyrian, but the wingless ones.
    A flying race like the Kyrians would be cool. Aion let you play as angels and being able to fly around was a ton of fun. Just make it into a glider mechanic similar to the way GW2 did flying mounts, or Demon Hunters in WoW.

  13. #493
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    A flying race like the Kyrians would be cool. Aion let you play as angels and being able to fly around was a ton of fun. Just make it into a glider mechanic similar to the way GW2 did flying mounts, or Demon Hunters in WoW.
    Perhaps a racial trait, but not part of the model.
    We would get blue and purple variants, however.
    I'm tempted to apply for a moderator position, just so i can go moderator on your asses.

  14. #494
    "Skeletons would not become playable. You cannot differentiate between genders."

    Erasing the differences between genders is a new trend they could follow with that

  15. #495
    Quote Originally Posted by DatToffer View Post
    "Skeletons would not become playable. You cannot differentiate between genders."

    Erasing the differences between genders is a new trend they could follow with that
    It really should be something they should consider.

    Broken Draenei, Ogres and Furbolgs would all benefit from this. Just avoid gender classification altogether and treat them neutrally. I don't think we need a female Ethereal if they make a model that is androgynous enough to represent either sex
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  16. #496
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    I'd love for the latter to be the case since I think there's a lot of lore potential in Shadowlands, and exploring more than just the 4 realms. We've only scratched the surface of the afterworld here.

    But realistically speaking, things have been moving slower than a snail's pace, and it's absolutely backwards to expect us to stay any longer than necessary when most people are already waiting on the next expansion and sick and tired of the main Sylvanas-centric storyline as it is.

    Any aims for new races should really be placed on what could be coming up next, as it really should always be. Races being added in retrospect of the expansion just feels like 'filler', like they couldn't plan anything better for that expansion so they have to take the best bits of the last one to fill in the gaps. That's exactly how I felt about the Race additions in BFA. It wasn't as much a crowd pleaser as much as fulfilling a status quo for (a lack of) Expansion Features
    Yeah, I would hardly call any of the added AR's deep content, but it does generate engagement. I still remember how many people were leveling their Broken Isles Allied Races during the pre-expansion Hiatus. If anything, I see the possibility of SL AR's as a retention measure, less so to do with the lore content of the Shadowlands themselves. I don't see SL going past 9.2 tbh, so I do think it's possible we see some new AR's to milk a bit more content and retention out of it before 10.0

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    And yet, we are the only mortals there who impact that realm. We are special. We are the chosen ones. We are the champions, heroes and stuff... You treat us like we haven't been upgraded into literal god-slayers. It's not just any world. It's Azeroth - the mortal of which saved their entire realm from damnation. The reason is very simple (as was with the other allied races): we helped them. We gained reputation with them. We peaked their interest. We allied with them and we forged a bond with them. The Kyrian even say how they want to visit our planet. There's no need for a complex explanation like you make it seem like.
    Honestly as long as you dismiss the simple fact as to why any of the SL races would care about the faction war -which is specifically the point, not whether would they care about Azeroth or not and would like to come, hence, the neutrality idea- this conversation is fruitless.


    Which, doesn't make sense. Why would one and not the other? any class can die and become a covenant "champion". There's no distinction in the Shadowlands.
    Then they should be all classes! Like either way, being ascended or proper kyrian themselves, they SHOULD have every class available nonetheless.

  17. #497
    Quote Originally Posted by DatToffer View Post
    Erasing the differences between genders is a new trend they could follow with that
    Well, not in WoW. Not yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post
    Honestly as long as you dismiss the simple fact as to why any of the SL races would care about the faction war -which is specifically the point, not whether would they care about Azeroth or not and would like to come, hence, the neutrality idea- this conversation is fruitless.
    Why do Mechangomes, Lightforged Draenei, Mag'har Orcs, Highmountain Tauren and Nightborne do? they had nothing to do with it and were simply pulled into the situation. They care because they are part of a faction, that's all.

    Then they should be all classes! Like either way, being ascended or proper kyrian themselves, they SHOULD have every class available nonetheless.
    You do realize how senseless this is, right?
    All 4 Shadowlands races having Druid forms, all 4 Shadowlands races being Demon Hunters with unique Metamorphosis, Venthyr being able to be Paladins when they burn from exposure to light, Necrolords being Paladins when they are undead creatures. Sylvar and Kyrian being Warlocks when they are so pure and kindhearted.
    You clearly haven't thought this through - like T&E.
    I'm tempted to apply for a moderator position, just so i can go moderator on your asses.

  18. #498
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Why do Mechangomes, Lightforged Draenei, Mag'har Orcs, Highmountain Tauren and Nightborne do? they had nothing to do with it and were simply pulled into the situation. They care because they are part of a faction, that's all.
    It's like talking to a wall.

  19. #499
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post

    Why do Mechangomes, Lightforged Draenei, Mag'har Orcs, Highmountain Tauren and Nightborne do? they had nothing to do with it and were simply pulled into the situation. They care because they are part of a faction, that's all.


    .
    What? Your arguing against half of your own points.

  20. #500
    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post
    It's like talking to a wall.
    Highmountain Tauren, Nightborne, Lightforged Draenei and Mechagnomes, literally, got aid from both factions.

    You put too much emphasis on the "otherworldly" connotation when we're, in fact, talking about a fantasy RPG game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Napee View Post
    What? Your arguing against half of your own points.
    Please do explain.
    I'm tempted to apply for a moderator position, just so i can go moderator on your asses.

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