Why did M+ players become so toxic with BFA?

[Sastank]

Elitism and addons or other means of excluding people didn't start with BFA. Whether it's people asking for 1200 io for a +5-10 on "alts" or AOTC 370+ for normal/heroic "blast" the community itself harbors pretty radical elitism in large part due to people thinking they're better than they are or thinking some arbitrary things determine success rate for certain activities.

With things such as boosts and carries being so rampant in the game today you never REALLY know a person's true "skill" or experience level until it's possibly too late, or so much time has been wasted it's not worth it in the end.

For example, Timmy has a lot of gold. Timmy has school and homework as well. He cannot grind M+ or join a dedicated heroic progression guild. Timmy sees people flooding trade selling these things. He buys M+ runs weekly, and AOTC once. These addons will "Reward" Timmy simply because he "did" a lot of +10s eventually.

The same exact thing applies to ilvl as well. Being declined entrance on an alt, or even main for some people, to a PUG Heroic or Normal raid because your ilvl is "too low". Or the group leader is a "5/8M raider!!one" but just so happens to be on an alt, and essentially needs carried, thus producing a hypocritical scenario simply because he made the group by clicking a few buttons.

In a perfect world the need for so many PUGS for many casual players would cease to exist, and the wannabes could sit around figuring out other ways to feel good about themselves. And no, I am not one of the people who needs to PUG or gets declined due to ilvl or io score or whatever, before you jump to conclusions and assume I'm some salty casual. I do not pug.

The amount of times you see ACTUALLY good players doing this is low. I'm aware some top end players who stream do this with "community" runs or "Viewer raids" and have a higher than needed ilvl but at that point it's more about taking people to serve the streamer's needs or what they feel is best for the run to be as smooth as possible.

Asmongold, as popular as he is, is likely one of the WORST possible streamers to look at for this sort of thing, as he frequently requires absurd ilvls for ANYTHING he does, and he's always being carried while he "Entertains" his stream and reads chat. I'm sure there are examples that show both extremes, for better and worse, but I don't watch enough lower end raiders on stream to know this, forgive me. I chose one I knew a lot could relate to or may have seen themselves.

That's all that comes to mind on this topic, sorry for the blog post I don't usually post this long

[Turtel]

I joined a +3(super high) got kicked 3 trash pulls in for using my voidwalker on trash and was whispered this little gem

That's hilarious considering that they wouldn't have been able to invite another DPS to replace you (at least that's how it worked in Legion). They would have either had to finish the entire dungeon with only 2 DPS, or they would have had to fail the key. They effectively punished themselves more than they punished you. Justice was definitely served in that case .

[drakath]

I had a player abandon his own key before the first pull in atal'dazar because I (blood dk) wanted to do Dino before zombie. I feel like I run into as many nice, fun to play with, decent players as I do complete elitist idiots, so it's not the worst, but I feel like some people are popping off over almost nothing sometimes. Feels pretty extreme compared to what I remember from mid legion.

[The7]

Raids are so much nicer! Even on pugs, it's not even close how much people are less toxic on raids.
I usually just do one or two high m+ dungeons a week for the weekly cache, my gear is mostly just from raids and some random titanforged.

I joined a +3(super high) got kicked 3 trash pulls in for using my voidwalker on trash and was whispered this little gem

I mean...

[Lochton]

Mythic+ players were always toxic, nothing has changed.

Yeah, been so since M+ came to. But the attitude itself has been so in all online games.

[vashe9]

Play mm+ with people you know

/thread

Random people are jerks in online games? Thanks captain, it's a breaking news.

[xindralol]

I've only had positive experience doing M+ with lfg players (which was almost every mythic plus I've done in bfa).

[Deleted]

I joined a +12 WM pug today. Everything went smoothly but when we got to the last boss we were 2% short because the tank didn’t pull enough trash because teaming calculation was off. The healer who didn’t say a word the whole run goes off on the tank calling him an idiot, trash tanking etc I forget all the expletives, and then leaves the group with 5ish minutes left on the timer to down the boss and get 2%.

I have been running keys up to level 23 by the end of legion and I have never seen the levels of elitism and raging among random groups like I do now. We are barely past the first month of mythic+ being out and you will get criticized so hard if you don’t know the exact pulls/routes/skips/interrupt/dispel/fear pathing/aggro range/charm/cc without any voice or pre-planning. Some groups do things totally different.

For example I did a +14 TAD last week and I had never seen T-Rex boss tanked by the stairs and didn’t know to run under them during fear so I spawned some raptors going to where I normally have. I got lit up so hard and called a brain dead tart jabrony among other things... oh it’s not like we even wiped either.

I have never seen such a level of insults/toxicity/rage quitting over even minor events in dungeons. I got my raider.io to 1123 so far on my own... but I’m starting to not have fun anymore and am starting to think it’s not worth it to try and push further. I feel like you have to walk on eggshells, be absolutely perfect and pray the way you know to do things is the same as the groups or else it’s a bust. And in B4 run with a guild group or make your own- because of the times I play I’m not able to keep a consistent m+ team together.

I don’t remember legion being anywhere close to this bad. Has the MDI and focus on raider.io causes this or have toxic players just driven most reasonable people out? M+ was my favorite part of the game coming out of legion and I was so excited for all the new dungeons and comps going into BFA... I’m feel very salty now.

So back to the title..

Because they are White Knight Blizzard Fanboy Elitist people who in the end will play alone this Expansion after 8.0.1 comes out, With there r.io third party site, and still be delusional idiots, that's why. Egoistic Narcissistic Cancer people

- - - Updated - - -

Raids are so much nicer! Even on pugs, it's not even close how much people are less toxic on raids.
I usually just do one or two high m+ dungeons a week for the weekly cache, my gear is mostly just from raids and some random titanforged.



I mean...

In truth , Yes , fucking Yes, it's actually very weird? Seems all the Toxic Egoistic Cucksucker went to m+

[kamuimac]

I joined a +12 WM pug today. Everything went smoothly but when we got to the last boss we were 2% short because the tank didn’t pull enough trash because teaming calculation was off. The healer who didn’t say a word the whole run goes off on the tank calling him an idiot, trash tanking etc I forget all the expletives, and then leaves the group with 5ish minutes left on the timer to down the boss and get 2%.

I have been running keys up to level 23 by the end of legion and I have never seen the levels of elitism and raging among random groups like I do now. We are barely past the first month of mythic+ being out and you will get criticized so hard if you don’t know the exact pulls/routes/skips/interrupt/dispel/fear pathing/aggro range/charm/cc without any voice or pre-planning. Some groups do things totally different.

For example I did a +14 TAD last week and I had never seen T-Rex boss tanked by the stairs and didn’t know to run under them during fear so I spawned some raptors going to where I normally have. I got lit up so hard and called a brain dead tart jabrony among other things... oh it’s not like we even wiped either.

I have never seen such a level of insults/toxicity/rage quitting over even minor events in dungeons. I got my raider.io to 1123 so far on my own... but I’m starting to not have fun anymore and am starting to think it’s not worth it to try and push further. I feel like you have to walk on eggshells, be absolutely perfect and pray the way you know to do things is the same as the groups or else it’s a bust. And in B4 run with a guild group or make your own- because of the times I play I’m not able to keep a consistent m+ team together.

I don’t remember legion being anywhere close to this bad. Has the MDI and focus on raider.io causes this or have toxic players just driven most reasonable people out? M+ was my favorite part of the game coming out of legion and I was so excited for all the new dungeons and comps going into BFA... I’m feel very salty now.

So back to the title..

the answear is simple - people are burned out and bored with mythic + and do it only for gear.

mythic + fails as interesting system - it only works because of MDI but overall its a failure for general playerbase - and is utilised mainly by mythic raiders.

the idea was good but wow playerbase as always completly twisted it into toxic puddle so a lot of people are actively avoiding mythic + atm due to them being way to hard compare to rewards they offer.

failed system is failed just like raiding. this is why wow is tanking so hard because blizzard is once again catering only to top 5% .

[Price]

This.

When Blizzard caters to the elitist assholes in the game, guess who shows up? I'll give you a hint: It's the elitist assholes.

This is only correct answer

[kamuimac]

Because they are White Knight Blizzard Fanboy Elitist people who in the end will play alone this Expansion after 8.0.1 comes out, With there r.io third party site, and still be delusional idiots, that's why. Egoistic Narcissistic Cancer people

hm and here i disagree. i mean they are egotistic greedy people but the main reason for it game is leading them into behaviour like this by not giving any alternative to people.

imagine if for example blizzard would put VP into mythic + and then let people farm it intensively (with weekly cap but cumultative one so week 1 - 1000 cap - week 2 2000 cap week 10 10 k and so on )

this would lead to birth of completly new type of mythic + runners - those who wouldnt aim and +7 or +10 but who would aim at +2 or +4 while earning way to progress their toons

lets go further what if blizzzard let people not only buy VP gear but also upgrade the one that they currently have and maybe put in sockets and tertiary on each single piece while using VP .

this would gave people alternative game styles and other ways to play game .

but this would require having at least a bit of brain by devs which is impossible with the team that have only "mythic raid or die" mentality

why the only content in game to pgoress has to be extremly competitive and hardcore one ? where is the sense in this.

[Cosmic Janitor]

I had a player abandon his own key before the first pull in atal'dazar because I (blood dk) wanted to do Dino before zombie. I feel like I run into as many nice, fun to play with, decent players as I do complete elitist idiots, so it's not the worst, but I feel like some people are popping off over almost nothing sometimes. Feels pretty extreme compared to what I remember from mid legion.

I mean it is against the usual meta of the dungeon, he probably lost all hope for a fast clear at that point. While I don't agree with throwing in the towel, I'm shocked at how many people opt for the worst possibly strategy in many cases and declare it to be the right way, and I'm not even talking about some elaborate tricks to bypass trash that only work half of the time, clear things which have become the meta because it has proven to be the most effective way.

[Aensland]

I joined a +3(super high) got kicked 3 trash pulls in for using my voidwalker on trash and was whispered this little gem

I got yelled at twice for having my voidwalker out. I promptly told the tank my pet taunt is automatically turned off. The second time, the tank called me a retard and I repeated what I said the first time, followed by "now STFU and pull". After a few more kind words exchanged, we ended up finishing the key w/no other problems.

Ppl need to know locks mainly use their voidwalker for their AOE on trash. This is often the case when interrupts aren't needed.

[evermynd]

Yeah I find it really frustrating to do any keys above a +10 because they have such a high failure rate. The second one person makes a mistake someone will rage quit. In my experience is usually between the tank and healer getting pissed at each other while us dps just sit there and pray that they don't leave. Because it is higher than +10 it seems the only thing they care about is getting a good time and since tanks/healers can find a group in seconds they don't think twice about leaving and screwing over the dps.

[Kyanion]

I mean it is the idiot's way of doing the dungeon, he probably lost all hope for a fast clear at that point. While I don't agree with throwing in the towel, I'm shocked at how many people opt for the worst possibly strategy in many cases and declare it to be the right way, and I'm not even talking about some elaborate tricks to bypass trash that only work half of the time, clear things which have become the meta because it has proven to be the most effective way.

I mean I've seen plenty of high level m+ atal go right for the dino on the pull. If you drop down right away you get the dino right by the stairs to never have to move him because of the ease of LoS'ing. The reason to rush to him is because of when the dungeon starts and how long it takes him to do his little patrol. There is a perfect clearing path after the dino to go right along to zombie and get all the trash you need. So.....yeah it isn't the "idiots way". There are quite a few different ways to do many of the dungeons and your way isn't always right.

[Price]

I got yelled at twice for having my voidwalker out. I promptly told the tank my pet taunt is automatically turned off. The second time, the tank called me a retard and I repeated what I said the first time, followed by "now STFU and pull". After a few more kind words exchanged, we ended up finishing the key w/no other problems.

Ppl need to know locks mainly use their voidwalker for their AOE on trash. This is often the case when interrupts aren't needed.

I might be wrong since i don't play my lock that often , but when i did dungeons i always used my imp instead of voidwalker isn't that correct any longer? voidwalker opperates as tank it's like a hunter not turning off growl.
Correct me is this is wrong nower days.

[Kyanion]

I might be wrong since i don't play my lock that often , but when i did dungeons i always used my imp instead of voidwalker isn't that correct any longer? voidwalker opperates as tank it's like a hunter not turning off growl.
Correct me is this is wrong nower days.

From what I understand with all pets that have a taunt it is automatically turned off during dungeon content.

[vlobben]

I might be wrong since i don't play my lock that often , but when i did dungeons i always used my imp instead of voidwalker isn't that correct any longer? voidwalker opperates as tank it's like a hunter not turning off growl.
Correct me is this is wrong nower days.

Voidwalker is the only pet with AoE damage, making him the better choice in many situations.

[Rotted]

They've always been toxic but I'd imagine its worse in BFA for one simple reason.

In legion keystones were brand new and we started from scratch, struggling to do +5s working our way up to 20+ over the course of the expansion. Now we're back to the start. I'd imagine people like this healer are used to 20+ and get easily triggered when failing a 10 because they think it's "beneath" them, despite the gear ratio at the end of legion to their gear now in terms of being able to do keys.

While I despite raider IO, I don't think you can shift the majority of the blame to it, some of it at the initial stages yea, but not when you're running 10+ keys.

[Shelly]

In my opinion the problem is two fold.

1) The dungeons are generally a lot more of a pain in the ass right now. There are few easy skips for a group without a rogue. Trash is packed in tighter than a Nun's ass. They swapped around affixes to make them generally more problematic.

2) M+ is no longer something new that people are just feeling out. It now has dedicated runners that play it out to the highest level possible and if you harsh their mellow they'll freak out.

I think the second one is actually pretty rare. Most of these complaint threads are about things that affect mostly those who complain about them.

The first problem though is straight up design. Everything feels like the last dungeon in Legion now and that one was the biggest pain in the ass. Now I burned out on dungeons in general back in BC farming daily for months to get my Suneater in Mechanar and haven't quite ever found a good chill group to roll with since, but damn do these dungeons just make my ass pucker as both DPS and tank.