Why did M+ players become so toxic with BFA?

[Deleted]

Last time someone asked me to join for m+, I went, ended up having to use my own key, because no one had a 10 so had to burn mine, and 2 people decided to relog their alts that 1 plays a poor class for m+ and another was undergeared, so the key got depleted despite this week being quite easy.

I'm just sad when everyone says tanks are the douchebags, while it's the tank that ends up being used and abused to carry people's alts to their weekly +10.

As a fellow tank, let me just say I feel you. I really do.

I used to be the go-to guy for years. had an alt that needs equip? Ask me and I tank some dungeons for you. I even help you get your nhc/hc raid run. I have equipped dozens and dozens of alts over the years.

But when I had an alt that wasn't a tank or heal, it would be nigh impossible to find someone to help me.

Eventually, i stopped doing that. The great thing about being a tank is that people need you. An over the past 10 years, my friend list has grown. I now have my premade m+ group, and run my keys with them. I do not help other people gear their alts anymore. I only do that when i have an alt lined up, and then I communicate my expectations clearly, like "I will do five dungeons with you, but make sure to repay the same for my alt <insert name here> by the end of this week". I'm sorry if thats inconvenient for people, but after ten years of gearing other peoples alts, I'm done.

[BananaHandsB]

Hah, I stopped PUGing a long time ago, I recommend all do the same. The vast majority of high-level puggers are angry people who do not possess the social skills to find a guild and maintain relationships with other people. Let them all PUG together.

[TomBrokovski]

We are barely past the first month of mythic+ being out and you will get criticized so hard if you don’t know the exact pulls/routes/skips/interrupt/dispel/fear pathing/aggro range/charm/cc without any voice or pre-planning. Some groups do things totally different.

For example I did a +14 TAD last week and I had never seen T-Rex boss tanked by the stairs and didn’t know to run under them during fear so I spawned some raptors going to where I normally have. I got lit up so hard and called a brain dead tart jabrony among other things... oh it’s not like we even wiped either.

That's why people are so toxic this early into the expansion. At the end of Legion everyone knew all routes to take, what to skip, what to pull, what mobs in each pack were the most dangerous. We're still very early into this expansion, people are still learning so a lot more mistakes will be made which turns into more people raging in chat.

[Nurasu]

They just buckle under the cognitive load.

If this isn't the shining example of the elitism the whole thread is about, I don't know what would be. Congrats, your brain is much more capable than those of 'raiders'.

[Denso]

After doing thousands of M+ I've found that if you just avoid French servers and the server Outland 90% of your worries are gone Horde-side EU. I've been doing that for a while now, and barring one experiment with a restoration shaman all my groups have been clean so far in BFA.

[dayne87]

I think it could be one of a few things. But first a caveat - I haven't done M+ yet and don't plan to.

In terms of toxicity in general (that could also be affecting M+):

-It's faster to gear up for Mythics. I was 320 just doing world quests, etc within a week of hitting 120. I was 340 probably 2 weeks after dinging 120. That was from doing nothing but solo content and normal dungeons for world quest dailies and later LFR and doing the Warfront quests, world bosses and Arathi rares. If poorly skilled players are doing the same and ending up in Mythic they could be souring other players and/or they (the poorly skilled ones) are the ones being toxic.

-Perhaps their memories of Legion Mythics are still too fresh. They're used to doing high key level mythics and being uber powerful with their faux-legendaries and it hasn't caught up to them yet.

-The instant gratification world we live in. People want stuff NOW and don't want to wait. It's not just a "millenial" problem, either.

-Younger player base. There could be new generations of players (teenagers or younger even) who are used to being toxic in COD or Fortnite or wherever and bring it to WoW.

-Veteran players. There could be veteran players (like me) who have raided at high levels and done cutting edge dungeon content (not really me for the past several expansions) who ARE elitist because they've proven themselves in challenging content in past expansions and their ego is a little inflated.

I don't see this problem going away any time soon unless they make M+ like the MOP Challenge Dungeons (cosmetic rewards only, no tangible upgrades) and thus kill the number of people running them. But that wouldn't fit with their treadmill game design policy right now.

[veloreum]

Raids are so much nicer! Even on pugs, it's not even close how much people are less toxic on raids.
I usually just do one or two high m+ dungeons a week for the weekly cache, my gear is mostly just from raids and some random titanforged.



I mean...

You turn off the threat aura and taunt and use Voidwalker on trash when you don't need utility from another pet. Voidwalkers Consuming Darkness ability allows it to do significant aoe damage. The more you know.

[meowfurion]

No it isn't. It is Blizzard tying a reward outlier to it (the weekly cache) so people who are not interested in M+ at all feel entitled to a carry. They don't want to run M+ at all as the reward for investment for the normal runs is subpar, but they want that one +10 run for 'their chest'.

- - - Updated - - -



Why the hell would you join that?

I know. talk about a glutton for punishment. I learned my lesson.

[ydraw]

The primary reason is that M+ is a lot tougher than it was in Legion, especially in lower keystones. It was trivially easy to level a key to 10 in legion, because of the absence of Tyrannical/Fortified below that level. People are feeling the pressure a lot more, 10+ keys are a lot more valuable than they were previously. Mistakes are punished more harshly and the penalty for failure is a lot more severe.

The lack of availability of azerite armour has also led to significant stress since M+10 cache is the best way to get it for people who don't mythic raid.

[Barnabas]

I only ever get mad when people make super obvious stupid choices in succession. That or they die every fucking pull. Once or twice I brush it off but when it gets to the point I see the key being depleted I find my hearthstone. Sorry but it's not worth my time to sit an hour while you learn a dungeon at 9+ when you were obviously too stupid to figure out when you did 2-8. If it's a situation that a friend or friend of a friend needs carry I have a complete different attitude.

[dirtybrew]

It's a symptom of m+ being more difficult. M+ players are more toxic because M+ is much more difficult, time consuming and has a greater margin for error than Legion. Asmongold said it best; they went overboard giving every other trash pack 3 different mechanics that wipe you if you mess up one. It's overwhelming, tiresome and breeds toxicity when people make a slight mistake. I feel mentally fatigued tanking two BFA dungeons whereas in Legion I could run them all day.

[Magicpot]

It's a symptom of m+ being more difficult. M+ players are more toxic because M+ is much more difficult, time consuming and has a greater margin for error than Legion. Asmongold said it best; they went overboard giving every other trash pack 3 different mechanics that wipe you if you mess up one. It's overwhelming, tiresome and breeds toxicity when people make a slight mistake. I feel mentally fatigued tanking two BFA dungeons whereas in Legion I could run them all day.

Side effect of wanting M+ to be an equal endgame partner in comparison to Mythic raiding, completly ignoring the fact that mythic raiding is a very niche activity for friends and social groups that has almost no pug activity, for that very reason. Yet, people are pugging mythic+. The source of friction is obvious.

[gdr441]

Seriously, i cant wait for they day RAIDER IO crap goes to trash and all the toxic elitest POS people who depended on it DIAF...so tired of it.

[PlazaPlaza]

After doing thousands of M+ I've found that if you just avoid French servers and the server Outland 90% of your worries are gone Horde-side EU. I've been doing that for a while now, and barring one experiment with a restoration shaman all my groups have been clean so far in BFA.

Outland Alliance EU are often friendly and the Horde side are really salty I can confirm that French players are often obnoxioux, pushy and kick quick if you make either 1 small mistake or they kick random people too add more French players or something… Germans and English are often nice.

I don't have anything against French players, I lived in France and I have a couple of French people as friends before we gonna have an another discussion about it...

The worst realm imo is Sylvanas Alliance EU, Jesus what a bunch of idiots are there.

[D3athsting]

Mythic raiding and m+ pushing community is toxic as shit and that's the reason i quit, i can't stand coming back from a working day to log in and have a 22 yr old psychopatic and frustrated raid leader swearing at me or at the whole raid for a fucking shitty game, fuck you and your progress guy, i play for fun i don't play for a living...