Feeling forced to reroll for pushing m+

[DrPeanut]

This entire discussion depends on how high you're pushing. If you're looking to be the best of the best, then I'm sorry, the meta will matter. But gear caps at +10, and achieves cap at +15, and you can get those done with any class and any spec, assuming you're skilled enough. In fact, the first +10 I cleared this expac (must have been the week after they released) had a shadow priest in it, and I remember only taking him because of all of his Uldir boss kills (skilled player). I've seen elemental shamans wreck face too. Would a boomie have been better than either of them? Yeah, probably. Solar beam, b res, and treants are huge utility. But did we need it? No, absolutely not.

We also have a prot warrior (most dumpster tank) who tanks our weekly +10s often better than brewmasters of equal ilvl. I don't know how, but it goes smooth as hell. He must be doing something right. Unless you are looking to go above +15, warriors are fine.

Now, if you're saying there is a group finder bias, then I 100% agree with you. Start your own group. I don't pug into a single dungeon on my monk. I grab what guildies would like to go, and pug the rest myself, offering to play any role that is needed for the group. I have never had a problem.

[Chowder]

This entire discussion depends on how high you're pushing. If you're looking to be the best of the best, then I'm sorry, the meta will matter. But gear caps at +10, and achieves cap at +15, and you can get those done with any class and any spec, assuming you're skilled enough. In fact, the first +10 I cleared this expac (must have been the week after they released) had a shadow priest in it, and I remember only taking him because of all of his Uldir boss kills (skilled player). I've seen elemental shamans wreck face too. Would a boomie have been better than either of them? Yeah, probably. Solar beam, b res, and treants are huge utility. But did we need it? No, absolutely not.

We also have a prot warrior (most dumpster tank) who tanks our weekly +10s often better than brewmasters of equal ilvl. I don't know how, but it goes smooth as hell. He must be doing something right. Unless you are looking to go above +15, warriors are fine.

Now, if you're saying there is a group finder bias, then I 100% agree with you. Start your own group. I don't pug into a single dungeon on my monk. I grab what guildies would like to go, and pug the rest myself, offering to play any role that is needed for the group. I have never had a problem.

Gear might cap at 10, but if you only do 10s instead of trying to push you won't get as much gear, the difference in drops between a 10 and a 15 is HUGE, and less gear means less chance to get stupid titanforged with gems, so yeah not being the meta hurts you no matter what.

[nyc81991]

Good thing Blizzard pruned classes and got rid of "Bring the player not the class"... /s

Terrible expansion with game breaking changes no one asked for.

[swatsonqt]

"LF DK Tank AD 6+, 370+ilev checking rio 1000+ (got 1.5k+ on main, playing on alt)"

This kind of funny stuff in LFG queue

I know these ones..it's unbelievable frustrating. with every minute i play bfa there grows this feeling in me. The feeling that you have to find mates with which you play every time or if you can't do that due to time restrictions...well "gtfo". No content for you

- - - Updated - - -

Maybe, but as a tank I feel no need to bring a frostmage for utility. The slow is nice but not really needed. I do look for a mage but that's only because it's a ranged class and will do competitive damage. It's a meele meta out there and I'm glad for every rdps I get.

Asl me why i started tanking on all my chars xD it makes your life so much easier

[Th3Scourge]

Any relevant content can be done by any class. Did a 14 key the other day with a Frost DK and a fury war in the group. Didn't seem to have any issues.

[Chowder]

Any relevant content can be done by any class. Did a 14 key the other day with a Frost DK and a fury war in the group. Didn't seem to have any issues.

Did you at least plus one it?

[Huanak]

Or you know...not have a single class that has all the tools in the box? Fuck, one would think a 30 year old, successful company with many houndreds of employees and established label of one of the best in the gaming community could learn on their mistakes/failed design but they don't.../wave Ion and the circus.

Rogues had been the most sought after class for M+ of all tiers right behind blood DKs. In BFA they are basically the only class sought directly in dungeon finder with a few exceptions of mages for BL/rdps and DHs. They have EVERYTHING, evey-fucking-single-thing one would want from a class/spec:
-one of the best AoEs
-the best ST
-sap
-fucktone of stuns
-evasion
-self healing
-fucking shroud of concealment
- cheat death to top it all off...and most likely other things I forgot in the absurd amount of utility they have.

It's beyond retarded that such class exists, let alone for so long time, especially when those morons at @blizz push the idea of "competitive M+". Sure rogues could be extremely easily "fixed" (brought down to level of other classes). With all those amazing abilities they have, they should have their DPS nerfed by a lot with an outcome of below average (sort of ele-shaman dpswise).

Please remember nobody want rogue in first year of legion, they just cant get in any M+ group at all similar to shaman dps now.

then suddently they become best aoe class with new lego from new patch... it is very similar to Prot pal, nobody wamt them untill near end of expansion buff.

so anything can change with a simple patch, remember next patch add 5th ring on azrite armor mean people can stack bis trait to crazy level.

[Marrilaife]

Please remember nobody want rogue in first year of legion,

Afaik rogue didn't have aoe stealth until 7.1 or 7.1.5 when they added it back. Since then it became you wanna save 10 min of no-potting take a rogue.

It was the same patch that added back utility traps to non-survival hunters.

[FecundDecay]

If you compare warriors on RIO (I'm comparing Arms here, I doubt Fury is much different) you really get a sense we're not wanted. On my realm, one of the largest in the EU, the highest Warrior has a score of just under 1.3k. Our damage is good but we're just not wanted because we have no utility and can be replaced by the attack power scroll buff. Why would you ever pick a Warr over a rogue/dh/mage/lock etc? They all have our damage and then something extra. It's all you see in group finder 'mage or rogue needed'.

I don't blame people for wanting good classes but it's so tiring not getting into a group when you're really geared and have more than enough xp but you're the wrong class. All we have is the damage. We don't even have shockwave anymore and I feel like I'm weighing my team down because all I can do is dmg. I can't help the group out with skips or slows or anything.

Yeaaaaa - my my husband plays a shadow priest, and he's one of the best on our server - has been for years. He gets insta-declined to any M+ groups over like... 6.
This nonsense is happening to a lot of people right now, and warriors are already doing a lot more damage than others in 5-man content... sooo your complaints seem a little silly to me.

[Sencha]

It's the same for all specs except the 4-5 fotm ones.

[Omedon]

Don’t presume to always be able to PUG M+. It’s capital-T “team” content, not just group content.

If you’re feeling reroll pressure among an actual team of “friends,” make better friends.

[Barnabas]

They need to give us shockwave back for DPS specs.

Naw they need to turn leap into an aoe stun for pve. It would fit the "class fantasy" mold while leaving shockwave special for prot. Also they need to bring back imp shout and make it baseline. That would provide some utility and be far better than scrolls.

[Faesroll]

sometimes affixs aren't on your side.

Did a +9 with two warriors and roflstomped everything

+9... this thread is about 13+

[Esotaric]

+9... this thread is about 13+

that post was made long time ago when +10 was not possible for a large number of people as well as sub-optimal group composition

[Delekii]

Don’t presume to always be able to PUG M+. It’s capital-T “team” content, not just group content.

If you’re feeling reroll pressure among an actual team of “friends,” make better friends.

If you're not feeling reroll pressure amongst a team of friends while playing a shitty spec, be a better friend.

[Deleted]

agreed its literally beyond stupid that certain classes excel at group utility while others have virtually nothing to them

rogues are the forerunners of bad class design, they are superb at everything, from DPS to group utility.. and DH's are almost as bad, the class is literally one of the most easiest melee specs in the game, but deals massive DPS with very good tools ... its just a meme at this stage

[Deleted]

And now Arms is getting a nerf to damage. There's literally no reason to take one, now. Blizzard is utterly clueless.

[Gordetowsky]

And now Arms is getting a nerf to damage. There's literally no reason to take one, now. Blizzard is utterly clueless.

I think fury is way better than arms in M+. Now the gap will get bigger.

[Deleted]

Sadly, from my experience as melee ONLY player is correct.



As having both, fury and frost DK at the same level i must say that their pick rate in pug higher M+ is quite bad as it is. Frost can keep their AoE uptime a bit more, but other than grip has no utility on their own.

However my experience is a lot better as survival hunter. Simply because pure damage that they bring in encounter. With the combination of right traits and pets they can be a bit more selfsustain and hit hard.

As WW i had mixed experience, i either pop my ToK in the right moment and my DPS skyrockets or i miss the window of high damage output from the boss, get my ass served AND do mediocre damage. But aye, definitely A LOT better experience with pugs as Survival/WW than with Fury/Frost.



I guess that this will change with .1 patch. Ion did mention in latest QnA that they think that DKs survivability is higher than they would like and they will look into it.
As well as damage of Vengeance and pWarrs.
The fact is.. that bDKs toolkit is built extremely well for M+ content by it self and if some core things dont change blood will always be good for dungeon content.
Their selfsustain is simply unmatched due to Death Strike/Blood Shield Mechanics. Blizz needs to be reeeaaalllyyy careful how they play around with it because that will either make them gods (as they are now) or break them completely (as majority of the legion).
That will leave then DKs with 3 subpair specs that are practically useless in PvP



Also, sadly true, majority of healers that i have encountered were priests, MW monks and Palas. rShammy here and there if someone bold shows up.
But again, when i was in pugs, leaders did say few times that they would rather wait for another healer over rShammy or pick a bit undergeared healer over them.



Add to that both DKs and Fury which hit as wet noodles without proper traits, stats and good weapon.



Again, with you on this one. Im not even sure why they brought back class specific raid buffs. This kinda makes obligatory to have one monk, DH, warrior and priest in the raid. Compensating poorer classes performance with utility buff is not the solution of the problem at hand.

Is it due to extremely poor design of Azerite gear and majority of the traits, or simply balancing issue, i think that class balance is close to be at its lowest. DPS wise balance is somewhat ok, however class balance is way off.
Its really an issue for a class to depend of few traits to be valuable in the content or having ST and AoE set (fDKs)

Thing is, besides the self healing DK rules in mob control with single grip and massgrip. I like playing my paladin I really do but the sheer amount of control I get vs the not so much control spell like avenger's shield has (god this thing I swear..when it bounces of a mob to another pack 40 yards away)...I'm having a relatively harder time tanking on my paladin (I know some of it is due to L2P)

[M1r4g3]

Whats the difference between a good and mediocre arms warrior? Anyone know?