1. #1

    Activating Deadshot trait

    Hello math people,

    Not sure if it was answered before, is it worth to cast Between the eyes with 1combo point (right after 4/5 finisher) to get the deadshot buff when NOT aoeing?

  2. #2
    BtE is also a finisher so you shouldn't use it with 1 combo point when you can use it with 4/5 and still cast pistol shot with DS buff.

  3. #3
    not sure if it worth to spend 5combo points on BtE while its un-buffed by roll the bones, thus using 5cp on Dispatch instead and 1cp on unbuffed BtE to activate the trait.
    Just wondering if worth or not

  4. #4
    Finishers cost the same whether at 1cp or 5 (or 6) cp. Use BtE it at 4-5 cp. RtB Buff doesn't matter. In fact, If you have deadshot or ace up your sleeve, BtE preempts re-rolling RtB.

  5. #5
    My point is, is it worth to build up to 5cp and 'waste' it on un-buffed BtE, while I can quickly spend 1cp on it to activate the Deadshot buff fast and assume normal rotation once again.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by omri1212000 View Post
    My point is, is it worth to build up to 5cp and 'waste' it on un-buffed BtE, while I can quickly spend 1cp on it to activate the Deadshot buff fast and assume normal rotation once again.
    Feelcraft here:

    I did this. Unless I had RP, I used 1cp BtE with 3 Deadshot traits (before the nerf, then I moved to two Ace Up + Archive of the Titans). The good thing is that using a 5cp finisher (either RtB or w/e Outlaw Eviscerate is spelt) gives you 1cp, perfect for BtE and buffed Deadshot activation.

    I did not simulate anything, this just was my "feeling". I didnt want to lose any empowered Pistol Shot.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by omri1212000 View Post
    My point is, is it worth to build up to 5cp and 'waste' it on un-buffed BtE, while I can quickly spend 1cp on it to activate the Deadshot buff fast and assume normal rotation once again.
    Deadshot doesn't buff BtE, it buffs Pistol Shot. You need to use BtE on cooldown to buff as many pistol shot procs as possible. Because BtE has a cooldown and as such, limited casts, never use it at anything less than 4-5 CP. You'd be dealing less damage with absolutely no additional benefit. If you're worried about not using BtE the INSTANT it comes off cooldown, that's what pooling energy is for. When you're at a few seconds left of the cooldown with max combo points, hold off and pool energy until BtE comes off cd, provided you can do so without overcapping energy.
    Last edited by shadowboy; 2018-10-16 at 01:05 PM.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowboy View Post
    Deadshot doesn't buff BtE, it buffs Pistol Shot. You need to use BtE on cooldown to buff as many pistol shot procs as possible. Because BtE has a cooldown and as such, limited casts, never use it at anything less than 4-5 CP. You'd be dealing less damage with absolutely no additional benefit. If you're worried about not using BtE the INSTANT it comes off cooldown, that's what pooling energy is for. When you're at a few seconds left of the cooldown with max combo points, hold off and pool energy until BtE comes off cd, provided you can do so without overcapping energy.
    probably un-buffed BtE means non-RP BtE (no crit buff). There are still situations where 1-cp BtE is desirable IMO: You have 2-3 Deadshot traits (if you have Ace Up, you will ALWAYS want 5cp BtE), BtE is off-cd, around 5 seconds without True Bearing. Then, applying 5CP Dispatch will advance the cd on BtE, and give 1 CP due to the passive. In this situation, without RP, I would use 1-CP BtE to proc Deadshot and keep SS until an Opportunity proc.

  9. #9
    No. You never want to use a 1cp BtE, even with deadshot. Between the Eyes costs the same energy whether it's 1cp or 5 cp, but a 5cp BtE does 5x as much damage.

    Let's look at my rogue's tooltip damage for a moment: I have a 385 piece with deadshot, so let's assume someone has 3 of those. This means deadshot increases pistol shot damage by 8685, multiplied by 2.5x because of SS procs with quick draw talent, for a total of +21712.5 damage (on top of my rogue's base 2689 PS damage). This means pistol shot would do 24,402 damage, modified by my 22.24% crit chance for an average damage of 29,829. My between the eyes has a tooltip damage of 1454 damage at 1cp and 7273 damage at 5cp. This means a 1cp and 5cp damage factoring crit would be 2424 and 12,126, respectively. The damage difference is 9702 damage. You're basically saying "do 10k less damage to hit BtE 1.5 seconds sooner."

    In my case it'd never be worth it because I have 1x deadshot and 2x ace. And I'm using deeper stratagem.

    Although, if you really want to know, you could just edit the simulationcraft apl and see if this scenario is a meaningful gain. That's what the tool is good for.
    Last edited by shadowboy; 2018-10-16 at 05:20 PM.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by omri1212000 View Post
    My point is, is it worth to build up to 5cp and 'waste' it on un-buffed BtE, while I can quickly spend 1cp on it to activate the Deadshot buff fast and assume normal rotation once again.
    Yes it is still worth using BtE at 5CP without RP buff when you're wearing DS pieces.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowboy View Post
    No. You never want to use a 1cp BtE, even with deadshot. Between the Eyes costs the same energy whether it's 1cp or 5 cp, but a 5cp BtE does 5x as much damage.

    Let's look at my rogue's tooltip damage for a moment: I have a 385 piece with deadshot, so let's assume someone has 3 of those. This means deadshot increases pistol shot damage by 8685, multiplied by 2.5x because of SS procs with quick draw talent, for a total of +21712.5 damage (on top of my rogue's base 2689 PS damage). This means pistol shot would do 24,402 damage, modified by my 22.24% crit chance for an average damage of 29,829. My between the eyes has a tooltip damage of 1454 damage at 1cp and 7273 damage at 5cp. This means a 1cp and 5cp damage factoring crit would be 2424 and 12,126, respectively. The damage difference is 9702 damage. You're basically saying "do 10k less damage to hit BtE 1.5 seconds sooner."

    In my case it'd never be worth it because I have 1x deadshot and 2x ace. And I'm using deeper stratagem.

    Although, if you really want to know, you could just edit the simulationcraft apl and see if this scenario is a meaningful gain. That's what the tool is good for.
    On very rare cases, I missed Opportunity procs (missed understood as the buff expiring without using it) waiting to build 5 cp BtE. In that scenario I believe its worth to use 1cp BtE to exploit the Opportunity 10 second window.

  12. #12
    You don't wait for the BtE to use the opportunity proc. You use it immediately, build the 5CP, then cast a 5cp BtE. Then use the deadshot proc on the next opportunity proc. The chance of not getting another opportunity proc before the next BtE is extremely tiny. Deadshot is not a temporary buff, it stays on you until you consume it with a pistol shot. Even out of combat or when logged out.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowboy View Post
    Deadshot doesn't buff BtE, it buffs Pistol Shot. You need to use BtE on cooldown to buff as many pistol shot procs as possible. Because BtE has a cooldown and as such, limited casts, never use it at anything less than 4-5 CP. You'd be dealing less damage with absolutely no additional benefit. If you're worried about not using BtE the INSTANT it comes off cooldown, that's what pooling energy is for. When you're at a few seconds left of the cooldown with max combo points, hold off and pool energy until BtE comes off cd, provided you can do so without overcapping energy.
    He didn’t say that deadshot buff BtE.

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