From the best World of Warcraft, to... This.

[Deleted]

Thats not true and such arguments mostly come from casual players, like you?

Would you like to provide evidence that I'm a casual player?

Runing m+ on 10+ isnt casual, it’s challenging and rewards better gear then all the wq world boss casual stuff.

Yeah running +10 with 5 blood dks is challenging btw. Doing 4 world quests for 370 + reforge is challenging btw.

Also mythic uldir is pretty hard for a first addon raid tier.

Where did I claim that mythic was easy or for casuals?

I dont see a theme park here or that blizzard is doing easy stuff for all the casuals?!?!?!

Yikes.

[RobertMugabe]

BfA is the most terrible expansion I've experienced to date. I'm looking forward to Classic.

If they do a TBC/WOTLK reboot? Even better, but at this point I'll take what I can get.

Yeah I have to agree. I legit enjoyed WoD waaaay more. The only good Things about BfA were the new art, music, zones (and the leveling) and a couple of the dungeons... but tbh every single xpac so far nailed that part.

[Deleted]

Nice

except the best of WoW was MoP, so you're completly wrong there buddy.

[prwraith]

The games not going back to where it was 10 years ago...MoP and Legion were both better expansions than wrath anyways.

MoP was, but legion was a steaming pile of shit.

[Bigbazz]

Sartharion is the greatest ever encounter? By what measure other than nostalgia?

Step 1 - Frost resistance, or dont bother in WOTLK
Step 2 - Attack boss, textbook dragon mechanics.
Step 3 - Hide behind ice

Repeat and collect loot, how exactly is that the greatest boss ever?

[QUOTE]

MoP was, but legion was a steaming pile of shit.

Legion added more post launch content than any other expansion, MOP gets points for introducing a few new features too but to say either was better than WOTLK is more than a stretch, and to say Legion was a bad expansion isn't looking at it very honestly. Legion was the only expansion that didn't have armies of people crying for it to end on the forums, MOP was rivalled only by WOD in that regard.

[Pua]

Nice

except the best of WoW was MoP, so you're completly wrong there buddy.

You’re absolutely entitled to that opinion, and it’s a personal one. If you say it, it’s true for you.

Personally?

I liked Mists, actually. The Kung Fu Panda influence was daft, but the lore was otherwise wonderfully written and I’m not sure there’s a better patch than the Throne of Thunder.

Sartharion is the greatest ever encounter? By what measure other than nostalgia?.

It was the first encounter that was designed with four scaleable difficulties, and was able to be a single boss with a compelling progress system that was for beginners, intermediate players, and experts.

None of that has anything to do with nostalgia, as you can logically see.

[Echocho]

Ulduar was a turning point indeed. After that the game started to decline, stripping away RPG elements and whatnot

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

Wildstar
#hardcore

Also #dead

[Schattenlied]

Legion added more post launch content than any other expansion

Content doesn't matter much when class design is a steaming pile of shit... The classes are how we interact with all content, if they are shit, it bleeds into everything else... Class designs in WotLK were, by comparison to the garbage we have now, wonderful... Even WoD class designs were better than this trash for all but like 2 specs.

Sartharion is the greatest ever encounter? By what measure other than nostalgia?

Step 1 - Frost resistance, or dont bother in WOTLK
Step 2 - Attack boss, textbook dragon mechanics.
Step 3 - Hide behind ice

Repeat and collect loot, how exactly is that the greatest boss ever?

Sartharion is not Sapphiron, you are thinking of the wrong boss.

- - - Updated - - -

Also #dead

I think it is coincidence. I like hardcore games, a lot, I hated Wildstar's general gameplay mechanics, class design was boring, and had 0 interest in it's setting and lore... It's not hard for me to imagine it failed for reasons other than "it was too hard".

[salate]

I always connect greatness of WotLK with WC3 tbh. For many people killing Arthas was "killing" their childhood and warcraft "died" for them.

I dont know, but I really enjoy wow now more than ever. It might be DH class, maybe Legion made the game better, and BfA took the best thing of Legion (which is the best addon for me).
Yeah, every addon had something I didnt like, some had cool stuff. Blizzard always experiment with things, do some mistakes, etc etc. But well, I dont miss WotLK, I'm really sad I didnt want to do the Immortal Title and didnt know that I had 1 boss kill for Champion of Ulduar... Thats all, lel.

[D3athsting]

It was the first encounter that was designed with four scaleable difficulties, and was able to be a single boss with a compelling progress system that was for beginners, intermediate players, and experts.

That's not totally correct, in Aq40 there was an optional boss, the so called bug trio where the kill order of bosses changed difficulty and loot, this can be considered the first "hard mode" ever introduced in wow...

[sam86]

Except no. Look at MySpace. Things have a "coolness" lifespan with kids. WoW was "cool" back then. It isn't the cool thing anymore.

You are deluding yourself by believing that changes in the game are what had the biggest effect on the player base. WoW just got old. That's all.

I just showed u one of worst bugs in wow that debated in Cata and is still until today not fixed, and u claim problem is just 'wow got old' ? To claim wow got 'old' means that wow is still the same as vanilla, and that isn't true, we literally don't have anything left from vanilla except couple of raids, gameplay is totally different

WoW is regressing while devs call it progress. Survive that.

that would be improvement from what we have

[Bigbazz]

Content doesn't matter much when class design is a steaming pile of shit... The classes are how we interact with all content, if they are shit, it bleeds into everything else... Class designs in WotLK were, by comparison to the garbage we have now, wonderful... Even WoD class designs were better than this trash for all but like 2 specs.



Sartharion is not Sapphiron, you are thinking of the wrong boss.

Class design in Legion was pretty good, with the artifacts and legendaries we had more gameplay options than ever, I loved playing my Warrior in Legion and I've played Warrior in every expansion. I liked WOTLK class design but it was only one iteration removed from the TBC one-button wonder specs. And yep I confused Sapphiron with Sartharion, even still it's a really hard sell to consider that fight the best designed boss.

WOD for DPS Warrior was in every way worse than Legion design, coming off of the back of a pretty good class design in MOP.

[Schattenlied]

Class design in Legion was pretty good, with the artifacts and legendaries we had more gameplay options than ever

More options doesn't automatically mean good, all it meant was we had a lot of poorly designed options... IMO it was the worst it's ever been since TBC ended, by a lot... Having a lot of flavors of shit soup to choose from is still shit soup.


Artifacts didn't provide any "options" at all, there were no options to it, and calling legendaries "options" is fucking laughable... You used whatever RNG gave you until you got your BIS and then that's what you used.

WOD for DPS Warrior was in every way worse than Legion design

Yeah, them and Demo locks were the only specs that weren't done well in WoD. For the vast majority of specs, class design has never been more bland and shallow than it was in Legion, and it's being continued in BFA.

[Marvy]

I agree with much of the OP's post (Ulduar being pinnacle and Sarth being a great encounter) however one part I strongly disagree with is that the entire first half of Wrath minus Naxx was amazing. In my opinion the expansion launched feeling largely like an unfinished beta. The zones and questing were really amazing and levelling was fantastic, right up until the end game which felt largely incomplete. Here are some points that I felt made this entire 6 months (November 2008 to April 2009) a pretty dull time.

-Class Balance: Probably at the worst it has ever been, this was apparent back in TBC when 3.0 launched a month before WOTLK actually launched, stuff was broken then and we were told "Wrath will balance it", well it didn't. This applies both in PvP and PvE, DKs were just extremely broken and OP at everything, ret paladins were not far behind. Certain classes which had been semi unviable to that point and were promised to be viable (such as feral dps), were still not viable.
-Dungeons: Anyone will tell you that dungeons in WOTLK sucked, which is sadly the case, and while visually they are really impressive for the time (such as the Azjol-Nerub ones and Nexus for example), the sadly pathetic lack of difficulty that existed right from day one made them a dull grind for most of the expansion, even in fresh levelling gear you could stomp a heroic with very little difficulty or regard for the mechanics, people got so used to easy dungeons the only "hard" one: Oculus, people didn't even want to do. (Because apparently figuring out a new 3 button rotation is "hard").
-Lag/Instability: Dalaran had inherited a problem apparent since Shattrath, that having a neutral city which is overpopulated causes huge lag and long render/load times, remember SSDs weren't around then. Also during a Wintergrasp battle usually the whole server would lag and crash even in instances, this went on for quite a long time after launch.
-The Raids: Granted you've touched on Naxx being bad already, which it was, but the problem was once again the difficulty across the board. Our realm first Obsidian Slayer was claimed by a trade channel pug of freshly dinged 80s, not even a full raid group. While 10 vs 25 would eventually grow to be a reasonably approved method of splitting raids, at this moment in time it was a fresh concept that they had put little to no thought in what so ever. If a boss had 10 mil health (Patchwerk was close to this) on 25 man, then let's make him have 4 mil health on 10 man right? Since they are 40% of the raid size! But what they failed to consider is that a 25 man raid usually has 17-18 dps, where as a 10 man only has 5-6 dps, which if you do the maths means that the 10 man has to do a lot more damage and only has around 30% of the damage of a 25 man raid not 40%, creating a sort of artificial difficulty for 10 man. This was particularly apparent during Sartharion 3 Drakes on 10 man, which whilst being a great fight, was in my opinon, artificially hard due to this lack of simple mathmatics. Either way the raids were really easy and with only one hard boss to progress on, people got bored really fast.

The 3.1 patch which I won't go into huge detail about, is obviously remembered due to Ulduar being such a great raid. But in reality it fixes a lot of the problems listed above. Class balance was significantly improved this patch, lag and Wintergrasp was sorted out and the 10 v 25 was significantly improved with 10 man becoming a tad easier and 25 man become a bit harder.

[Doffen]

MoP was, but legion was a steaming pile of shit.

MoP was garbage. Legion was awesome.

[Relapses]

MoP was garbage. Legion was awesome.

Funny how opinions work. Check this out:

[Doffen]

Funny how opinions work. Check this out:

That was the point.

2/10 for the effort

Funny pic tho, 10/10.

[Szarala]

Wider audience = People who couldn't achieve anything in the earlier expansions and now like being spoon fed and will vehemently defend the current version of WoW as to not hurt their own fragile ego

Hm.. maybe Wildstar would be more to your liking then..

OH WAIT...

[Pua]

That's not totally correct, in Aq40 there was an optional boss, the so called bug trio where the kill order of bosses changed difficulty and loot, this can be considered the first "hard mode" ever introduced in wow...

Erm... Yeah, I could be talked into that. It's a wildly different stance within the raiding community and approach, with a wildly different set of classes and players, but what you're saying is a fair enough consideration.