Unholy in Mythic v Heroic

[Drutt]

I was just looking over the WCL rankings for Uldir, and it seems like Unholy is doing quite a bit better in Mythic than Heroic.

Given that I haven't played my DK in a raid yet (still gearing up), I was curious as to what that is. Anyone able to offer some insight on that? In heroic at 75% percentile Unholy is bottom 5, yet in Mythic it's showing upper middle and if you narrow specifically to boss damage it's one of the highest non-outlier (i.e. not beating everyone else by 10%+) specs for single target.

Anyone able to explain why? Thanks!

[Kronik85]

Adds probably, usually more of them with higher uptimes.

[Prothynyas]

nah unholy is still hard to play in mythic

[Drutt]

nah unholy is still hard to play in mythic

That's what I've heard, but the WCL data tells a different story and I'm not sure why. There's also a large disparity between Unholy on Heroic and Unholy in Mythic.

Perhaps Kronik has it: add uptime, although that doesn't explain why Unholy is doing reasonably well at boss damage in Mythic vs Heroic.

[ymn]

Frost is better all the way.

- Taloc is easy as anything, disregard this boss.
- MOTHER, DKs heavily benefit from the opening burst into the later burst (if you do the group room to room strategy). Unholy is relatively viable here due to mass cleave required on adds - Frost is way better if put in the last group to go through so that it can get its full burst off
- Vectis, BoS cleaves quite nicely and lining it up with the add spawn just puts Frost's numbers way over what Unholy can do
- Zek'voz, BoS cleave is amazing if timed correctly - however, try not to use it when there's movement required, Frost beats Unholy here
- Fetid Devourer, just DON'T play Unholy here. Period. Frost is leagues above Unholy here as it can sit on the big egg and unleash its entire burst while Unholy is on small-egg duty with your non-existent mobility and really low DPS
- Zul, it seems DKs are required here, but with the amount of adds, Unholy can do some nice AoE

Mythrax and G'huun, no idea on Mythic. But judging from Heroic, Mythrax can be a bitch as Frost (if you get targetted with Mind Control) while G'huun is Frost all day every day for the huge laser burst.

Keep in mind that all these bosses are doable as Unholy. It's not that inferior, but you'd be better off with Frost on most bosses. With that said, I think Uldir is one of the most melee unfriendly raids in the last couple of years.

[Deleted]

Zul is not a cleave fight / aoe fight.
Mythrax it'a nice to have a strong cd for p1 adds
Ghuun is all about p3 not the p2 beams which aren't important at all.

[Marrilaife]

- Zul, it seems DKs are required here, but with the amount of adds, Unholy can do some nice AoE

DKs are not "required" for Zul by any stretch of imagination.

Just world top parses on this boss are done by frost mages and unholy dks padding on adds so they can rank, but it's absolutely not necessary for killing the boss. You don't want to nuke the crawgs. You want to keep them alive as a combo point machine for your 7 sub rogues (nowadays can be less but early progressions 6-7 was the norm). You want to nuke prio adds like crushers. DK could be useful to grip hexers but depending on setup you might just cc them and ignore them (lots of rogues = skipping another wave of hexers = just cc both spawns and recc at 40%, forget them).

Tbh in my guild our dps dk was just swapping to rogue alt on that boss because it's just so damn broken.

You might as well use your dk as blood as the 3rd tank, most guilds use a dh but that job can be done as dk, pala or monk as well, you just want to pick up crawgs and offtank them and kite them if you'd take too much damage (however when you take damage they heal, preventing them from dying too fast, and you don't want them to die too fast). For example one of the world top dps dks, Verrsdk is going blood on that fight. So no, you don't need a dps dk.

[ymn]

DKs are not "required" for Zul by any stretch of imagination.

Just world top parses on this boss are done by frost mages and unholy dks padding on adds so they can rank, but it's absolutely not necessary for killing the boss. You don't want to nuke the crawgs. You want to keep them alive as a combo point machine for your 7 sub rogues (nowadays can be less but early progressions 6-7 was the norm). You want to nuke prio adds like crushers. DK could be useful to grip hexers but depending on setup you might just cc them and ignore them (lots of rogues = skipping another wave of hexers = just cc both spawns and recc at 40%, forget them).

Tbh in my guild our dps dk was just swapping to rogue alt on that boss because it's just so damn broken.

You might as well use your dk as blood as the 3rd tank, most guilds use a dh but that job can be done as dk, pala or monk as well, you just want to pick up crawgs and offtank them and kite them if you'd take too much damage (however when you take damage they heal, preventing them from dying too fast, and you don't want them to die too fast). For example one of the world top dps dks, Verrsdk is going blood on that fight. So no, you don't need a dps dk.

The time I was writing this, my guild was about to set their eyes on Zul - we downed it after 2 nights and I ended up being Blood and letting Rogues do the carrying.

What you say is correct, DKs are not needed, especially if you're doing the Rogue tactic.

[msdos]

DKs are not needed

Now that is a stunning discovery.