Voting Rights for Felons

[zenkai]

Voting matters in every republic and there's been a lot of discussion of problems with certain groups not being able to vote, such as attempts to make it harder for some to vote. There's also been a lot of discussion over undocumented individuals attempting to vote. However, one demographic that doesn't get discussed often is felons.

The fourteenth amendment allows states to adopt rules for felony disenfranchisement for "participation in rebellion or other crime". This leads to situations where some people have their ability to vote removed entirely. In Florida alone, there are 1.5 million ex-felons that could not vote during the state election.

There is currently a ballot to change Florida's constitution, amendment 4, which would restore the right to vote to ex-felons in Florida, excluding those convicted of murder or sex offenses.

Florida isn't alone in voting restrictions for felons. While felons in most states are allowed to vote after completing their sentences, Alabama, Delaware, Iowa, Kentucky, Mississippi, Nevada, Tennessee, Virginia and Wyoming continue to have restrictions that limit voting.

During 2008, 5.3 million people were unable to vote, which comprised 2.5% of the potential voters in general.

Some states go further to protect voting rights though. For example, Maine and Vermont allow felons to vote from prison.

Should those currently incarcerated be allowed to vote at all, or should they only be able to vote once their sentence ends? Or should felons permanently lose their ability to vote?

I am fine for non violent felons to be able to vote once they serve their time and are off parole, all the rest can eat a dick.

[Machismo]

I am fine for non violent felons to be able to vote once they serve their time and are off parole, all the rest can eat a dick.

There you go, hating on freedom again. So sad.

[cubby]

I am fine for non violent felons to be able to vote once they serve their time and are off parole, all the rest can eat a dick.

So, as usual, outside of politics, we find agreement. Really messes with me at times. Anywho . . .

I agree half way - why only non violent felons?

[Masark]

I agree half way - why only non violent felons?

So only the white collar criminals get to vote.

[Shadowferal]

You two make some interesting arguments. Why are we punishing people who have already served their time? Not trying to attack either of you, in case it sounds that way, just generally curious.

Some crimes aren't forgiven.
Another example...felons that have committed child sex crimes may serve their time but have to register in the local area as a "registered sex offender." There's a good reason for that. And they are on my own list for losing the right to vote. And they can't even leave the country either to escape that.

[cubby]

So only the white collar criminals get to vote.

I hate to say it, but Zenny has a very rational side when it comes to non-political issues. I'm usually blown away during these discussions. And he is aware of it, too. It's almost like we have two separate worlds of communication. We both think the other is insane on political issues, and then we sit down and have a beer and discuss everything else.

- - - Updated - - -

Some crimes aren't forgiven.
Another example...felons that have committed child sex crimes may serve their time but have to register in the local area as a "registered sex offender." There's a good reason for that. And they are on my own list for losing the right to vote. And they can't even leave the country either to escape that.

I agree - some crimes aren't (and can't be) forgiven. Let's, for this discussion, skip the highly emotional ones - murder/pedophile/sex-assault, if that's ok. I'm not trying to bail, I just recognize my own upcoming hypocrisy - if that makes any sense.

I think one of the best violent crime examples is Armed Robbery. Violent. Thief. Aside from killing someone, you hit all the major highlights.

Should they have a right to vote post prison/parole?

[Shadowferal]

I think one of the best violent crime examples is Armed Robbery. Violent. Thief. Aside from killing someone, you hit all the major highlights.
Should they have a right to vote post prison/parole?

I'd demand a judge make the call, case-by-case.
No one died as a result of robbery...that's a positive.

[TEHPALLYTANK]

Isn't, you know, being in prison, supposed to be the punishment for crimes done?

What's the logic in wanting to continue to punish people after they've done their sentence?

For the purpose of holding on to power; voter disenfranchisement is put into place by elected officials, and it is kept in place so they can hold onto power. The Republicans are quite guilty of this in the past couple of decades.

[cubby]

I'd demand a judge make the call, case-by-case.
No one died as a result of robbery...that's a positive.

So, and let me say I KNOW this is a loaded/leading question up front, at what point do criminals fully pay for their crimes? When are they free and clear of their mistake, after having paid the penalty?

And don't get me wrong, I have some serious bias towards former criminals in hiring and other areas. So I'm just looking for a discussion here, I promise.

[Shadowferal]

So, and let me say I KNOW this is a loaded/leading question up front, at what point do criminals fully pay for their crimes? When are they free and clear of their mistake, after having paid the penalty?

Depends on the crime.
A criminal that commits murder or rapes a child will never pay for that crime regardless of a lifetime in jail.

[cubby]

Depends on the crime.
A criminal that commits murder or rapes a child will never pay for that crime regardless of a lifetime in jail.

Ok, but eliminating those crimes - murder and child related and sexual assault. What about those crimes? Do they punish the offender for a lifetime? It seems they do right now. But is that fair?

[Shadowferal]

Ok, but eliminating those crimes - murder and child related and sexual assault. What about those crimes? Do they punish the offender for a lifetime? It seems they do right now. But is that fair?

The victims have to live with it for a lifetime, why shouldn't the felon? (Families of a murdered victim can be seen as victims themselves)

[Mafic]

The victims have to live with it for a lifetime, why shouldn't the felon? (Families of a murdered victim can be seen as victims themselves)

Taking away voting rights is a more severe punishment than jail IMO. It should not be done.

[Shadowferal]

Taking away voting rights is a more severe punishment than jail IMO. It should not be done.

o please...too many don't even bother to vote. Had they the choice of going to prison or giving up voting, they'd gladly give up voting.
Note; at one point most of those that worked under me were coming from prison. And I've had long talks with almost every one of them.

[Mafic]

o please...too many don't even bother to vote. Had they the choice of going to prison or giving up voting, they'd gladly give up voting.
Note; at one point most of those that worked under me were coming from prison. And I've had long talks with almost every one of them.

The choice should be there. You can take someones freedom away with jail or capital punishment. But taking away voting is telling them they do not belong in society. Basically why even release them from jail?

[Deletedaccount1]

I am voting no on restoring their right to vote. It just doesn't sit right with me that people who have gone out of their way to undermine society and the law should have a say in organizing it.

[Shadowferal]

The choice should be there. You can take someones freedom away with jail or capital punishment. But taking away voting is telling them they do not belong in society. Basically why even release them from jail?

WTF?
Perhaps murderers and child rapists don't belong in society.

[Dontrike]

I am voting no on restoring their right to vote. It just doesn't sit right with me that people who have gone out of their way to undermine society and the law should have a say in organizing it.

This is hilarious, considering the kind of people you support, because by your own logic none of them should be allowed to organize, let alone work for, it.

[Deletedaccount1]

This is hilarious, considering the kind of people you support, because by your own logic none of them should be allowed to organize, let alone work for, it.

Who are you referring to?