Why do people have a problem with titanforging?

[tclphz]

Titanforging in its current state is very unhealthy for the game imo due to following reasons:

1) There is no cap on TF, which means any item dropping can be a 400 ilvl item if you're lucky enough. Raid trinkets atm are quite lackluster, which means doing WQs for a shitty 320 trinket is important if you want to maximize your character in case this one time it TF to 400. Arcano Crystal in Legion is a great example of why TF is a terrible feature without a cap.

2) It inflates ilvl a lot. This means that new raids will have to take TF somewhat into consideration and increases power growth by an absurd amount. LFR gear in the new raid already invalidates all of Uldir bar mythic, which is hilariously bad game design, as it flat out removes content in the current expansion.

3) It creates a situation where getting a non TF item from a boss feels bad. The boss drops the same item for you and your bro, but his item TF, leaving you with a sour taste in your mouth. In the old days it was all about getting that one piece to drop and it felt great when it did. Now the item has to drop with TF + socket or you want to ragequit.

I'm sure there are multiple other reasons for other people, but imo these are the 3 worst situations for me.

While you have good points, I'll point out that there is a cap on TF, as you noted 400 ilvl (I'm pretty sure it's actually 395 is the cap).

Your second point existed without TF. LFR on the next tier will likely drop 355 (which would be similar to prior expansions) which invalidates LFR, it becomes on part with normal.

Finally, I have difficulties with the third point. I guess to me, TF is a bonus, not something that makes me feel bad. Still rather it not be in the game as I think (mostly because I don't think anything should drop above mythic raid ilvl). But if a 385 drops off mythic that's an upgrade for me, I'm happy, if it's titanforged (I guess it could only be warforged), I'm ecstatic.

[Jervaise]

Yes, you do. Why do you think you don't?

Let's say I'm farming for a haste/crit piece to have reorigination array proc haste for me. Then a random mastery/versatility piece drops with 395 + socket. I have to wear that since primary is so important. The game already decided what I'm gonna wear forever, unless I get lucky with RNG so that I get a 395 + socket with stats I want.

Do you really not see the lottery game here?
If these items were all same ilvl for the content I'm doing + there were badges / vendor / upgrade system / reforge system, then I had control.

[tclphz]

Blizzard has spent so much time catering to the worst of its playerbase without ever asking itself why it bothers to. Progression outside of a extremely limited section of the game is dead and for what?

A slot machine system coupled with a grind that would embarrass Korean game devs?

Now we see were this road blizzard went down since sunwell leads to its ultimate consolidation. A dull bland world of instant empty gratification. What worse is those who ravaged the game so hard who demanded it be made this way with bellows of " everyone needs to see the content" were the very first to flee from it like a sinking ship.

Offer them no quarter or shelter in classic for they will return to invest and rot the game from within again it is all they know.

I'm confused where there was progression previously. I started during BC, so if I recall, you can gear up in heroic for Karazhan, then further progression is available only through raiding. Some crafting pieces were nice, but made obsolete by raiding. At least we have M+ now.

- - - Updated - - -

Let's say I'm farming for a haste/crit piece to have reorigination array proc haste for me. Then a random mastery/versatility piece drops with 395 + socket. I have to wear that since primary is so important. The game already decided what I'm gonna wear forever, unless I get lucky with RNG so that I get a 395 + socket with stats I want.

Do you really not see the lottery game here?
If these items were all same ilvl for the content I'm doing + there were badges / vendor / upgrade system / reforge system, then I had control.

You would only wear the 395+socket if it sims better for you. If it doesn't you would wear something else.

[Lime]

Are you ever really BiS? Even if you are, you're only gonna be for a short time until the next raid releases.

An obtainable goal vs an unobtainable goal. People who strive the best typically care about the former and not the latter.

Prior to WF/ThF/TF, if you ran content enough, you could get your BiS. Now it's basically impossible. You not only have to be just as lucky (even luckier considering PL), but then you have to hope it rolls higher multiple times.

For one piece of gear, it doesn't look that bad. For every piece of gear, it's a nightmare.

You can't really play this game with the mentality of ever getting BiS anymore. Because of Blizzard, you basically have to stop caring about BiS or risk burnout due to dealing with random drops with slot machines stacked on slot machines.

[Franzy]

because i miss having a proper BiS list to aim for, and actually completing it in a tier.
instead it's a system to make people continue to do lower content because they can still offer huge upgrades if they proc.
I don't find that fun.

[Dusty tome]

I'm confused where there was progression previously. I started during BC, so if I recall, you can gear up in heroic for Karazhan, then further progression is available only through raiding. Some crafting pieces were nice, but made obsolete by raiding. At least we have M+ now.

- - - Updated - - -



You would only wear the 395+socket if it sims better for you. If it doesn't you would wear something else.

Depends on your class to be honest. I am not arguing that raiding is the end of the line. It just used to be the end not the start and finish.

[Deleted]

But if you've finished the tier, gear no longer matters until you come back for the next one? I get the completion argument to some extent, but i don't think it enough to remove the system at all.

Well, forging is nice, when it is not wild and loose. I am wearing my world.quest trinket, which I got from world quest before m+ opened. It sucks. I am 6/8M. I basically was running around and hitting mobs with my lances and I got it. It felt nice, but when all your gear is based on luck with 0 control... it really sucks after those initial 30seconds of bragging about tf in guild chat.

[MyndZero]

What does itemlevel inflation mean? That from beginning to the end of the expansion the itemlevel gets so high? What does that have to do with titanforging? That seems to be causes be the fact we have 4 difficulties.

It definitely is because of the 4 difficulties, but it's essentially 5 because titanforging goes above the top difficulty. The game honestly doesn't need LFR, nor does it need item level higher than what the top difficulty provides baseline.

[Rotted]

This post is very confusing. Are you respecting the item or the item level? It is still possible to tell where a piece of loot came from, you know.

There's no confusion about it at all. I'm assuming you didn't play in vanilla or TBC? otherwise you'd know that exact feeling he's describing of seeing someone decked out in raid epics. It used to be a real "woah" moment when you were entering a city to rank up or buy something and you saw someone in the city decked out with gear. You'd stop for a good few minutes to inspect them in awe.

Now some people might say we still have that with people wearing all mythic gear, but it's completely different; one the reasons why? Titanforging. Take this as an example. We were running heroic the other night and we're short 2 people. So we decided to pug 1 while waiting for our guild to get online, then just let the pug stay. Taloc goes down, the pug gets a titanforged trinket. 395. 10 ilvls higher than mythic base line. We've seen the same through out legion, items titan forging stupidly high. It just takes away from the game in my opinion.

[HuxNeva]

I think the problem you mention goes hand in hand with the master loot removal. If you could trade a piece no matter what, there would be guilds who would order you to give it away even if it's good for you. That's why they made it so you can't trade things that are ilvl ups and tier that you didn't already have.

Was that not to counter split raiding?

[ellieg]

Because ppl think this video game is a job. They talk abt how they "worked" just as hard as the guy next to them but their reward got titanforged and his didnt so it's not fair.

Idk if the majority of the players are new, but imo titanforge is good for the game. Let's say u are 365 ilvl. U have done heroic raids for the week. Except for 1 or pieces that could drop from normal raid off of 1 or 2 bosses, u have no reason to be do the normal raid. With titanforge, every activity can potentially provide an upgrade.

Ppl just salty because one guy got a 395 from lfr with ridiculous lottery luck that will never happen again. I swear ppl assume totanforging happens way more often than it actually does. They just assume they are unlucky themselves, and everyone else is super lucky.

[IceMan1763]

Idk if the majority of the players are new, but imo titanforge is good for the game. Let's say u are 365 ilvl. U have done heroic raids for the week. Except for 1 or pieces that could drop from normal raid off of 1 or 2 bosses, u have no reason to be do the normal raid. With titanforge, every activity can potentially provide an upgrade.

There are people who FUCKING HATE doing irrelevant, easy content they have already done for a small chance at proc'ing TF.

Just because you like it doesn't mean everyone does.

[barackohmama]

Somebody worse at the game running normal, should not get a better trinket than u when u are running mythic. That's why it is bad. It really isnt that confusing

Those running normal are always going to have worse gear than those running mythic though. It's much easier to TF to ilvl cap running mythic than it is for someone running normal. Those odd cases when someone gets a good TF from normal are so rare I don't see why you should get upset about it.

[Naked Snake]

It definitely is because of the 4 difficulties, but it's essentially 5 because titanforging goes above the top difficulty.

If TF didn't exist, I'm sure they would spread out itemlevel differently. If the itemlevel is higher than they want it to be, I'm sure they're gonna adjust it.

The game honestly doesn't need LFR

The majority of players only do LFR. If anything then the game doesn't need mythic raids. I don't see how the removal of either would be good for the game though.

nor does it need item level higher than what the top difficulty provides baseline.

It makes the rewards cooler.

[Arnoux]

I don't know, it feels good to get a titanforged item occasionally. There is no problem with it. Also people get mythic level items? I don't do mythic raid, so I like to get mythic level items and not having to play this game like it was a job.

[Deleted]

People keep saying it's bad but I don't get why it is. I like it when I get a good upgrade.

The issue is not people getting upgrades, it s the fact that it ruins progression, especially raid's one (where in wow you traditionally used to get ilvl X for a tier of content and if you wanted better ilvl you needed to move to higher tier of content). And it leads to the ilvl creep requirement in order to join PUGS.

Also, no, it doesn't feel good getting mythic raid ilvl gear from the same LFR raid (it happened to me).

[Naked Snake]

Let's say I'm farming for a haste/crit piece to have reorigination array proc haste for me. Then a random mastery/versatility piece drops with 395 + socket. I have to wear that since primary is so important. The game already decided what I'm gonna wear forever, unless I get lucky with RNG so that I get a 395 + socket with stats I want.

Do you really not see the lottery game here?
If these items were all same ilvl for the content I'm doing + there were badges / vendor / upgrade system / reforge system, then I had control.

The game upgraded an item, that otherwise would have been useless, to something useful instead.

You're basically saying that you wanted item 1 because the stats were better, but instead item 2 dropped and was upgraded so much that, while otherwise useless, now it's a better option than item 1.

Saying that that means the game is deciding what you are gonna wear forever is absolutely nonsensical. You might as well say that the game decides what items you are gonna wear because certain stats are made to be better for you than others, or because Blizzard created this particular piece of gear. The game always decided what items you want to wear, because some items are better than others.

[Arnoux]

So we decided to pug 1 while waiting for our guild to get online, then just let the pug stay. Taloc goes down, the pug gets a titanforged trinket. 395. 10 ilvls higher than mythic base line. We've seen the same through out legion, items titan forging stupidly high. It just takes away from the game in my opinion.

What is the problem with it? Did you expect the pug to contribute to the kill and have no chance of the loot? If you don't want to share your loot with all of the participants then don't invite pug, and cancel your raid because not every guild member are there. I seriously don't understand your problem.

[Flarelaine]

There's no confusion about it at all. I'm assuming you didn't play in vanilla or TBC? otherwise you'd know that exact feeling he's describing of seeing someone decked out in raid epics. It used to be a real "woah" moment when you were entering a city to rank up or buy something and you saw someone in the city decked out with gear. You'd stop for a good few minutes to inspect them in awe.

I did play in Vanilla and I know exactly what you're talking about, but the post was somewhat incoherent, which is why I asked. Because if the point is having the "elite" version of the item, an inspect will still tell you if it's the hardcore, mythic version of a lucky LFR knockoff. Telling just by the looks was shot to hell with transmog anyway and has nothing to do with titanforging.

[Ergunk]

Because it is a stupid thing implented in the game to only keep you playing and farming the same content over and over because the item you grinded and worked hard for only dropped as base item level. Instead of being happy that you finally got your item you are left a bit bittersweet that you got your item but it didnt upgrade.

Getting the item you been wanting should be exciting and make you feel better, not feel bad that it didnt proc WF or TF.

All this is ofc just my opinion but this is why i hate the system. I prefered the Valor point system where the content you did rewarded you with points which you could use to upgrade your item.