Toxic masculinity: Life as a man isn’t always easy either

[Deleted]

An important topic to acknowledge

Stories of the difficulties of being a modern woman are often told, but how much do you read about the downsides of being a man?

A searingly honest conversation unfolded online this week as men shared the negative impact of "toxic masculinity" on their lives.

It was a rare chance for many to express how societal expectations of toughness, sexual virility and emotional reserve lead to isolation, loneliness or just feeling uncomfortable around mates.

It all started when British columnist and feminist Caitlin Moran put out a call for men on Twitter to talk about the drawbacks of being a guy today.

We spoke to some people sharing their thoughts and feelings.

A Super Bowl for feelings
James Livitski, from Toronto, Canada was really happy to see the topic so widely talked about on Twitter:

"I've been saying this forever. There's a stigma about men talking about feelings. We're born into thinking that a man should be 'tough', and push his feelings aside because it isn't 'manly'."

James, 32, says he's seen countless times the impact of social norms that men should not be emotional or vulnerable.

"I've heard of so many relationships ending because the man can't express the way he feels.

"We need to be more open to listening to how a man is feeling and push more for them to understand that it's OK to feel things."

Although his own dad is a "really sensitive man", he says that many are not taught how do that without fear they will be judged.

"We're all humans and we all feel. You shouldn't never be afraid to say what's on your mind. Men should have a Super Bowl for feelings," he suggests.

Increased attention has been paid to men's mental health in recent years.

Men and women experience many of the same mental health issues, but men with depression or anxiety may hide emotions and express anger or aggression instead, according to the US National Institute of Mental Health.

Missed connections
Another pressure is that men who express their love for family or friends are considered feminine and emasculated, according to Phil Chan, a digital artist from California.

"My dad never told me that he loved me, even though I know he does. He hadn't hugged me either. Even now that he is in his eighties, I would love to hear him say it."

"After I told my closest friends how I feel about them, if anything, it brought us closer together. We hug on a regular basis!"

Phil also explained that when caring for his baby nephew, women in public would assume he was clueless about looking after an infant.

At a party with his nephew, a group of women criticised him, giving instructions on how to "properly" change and hold the baby. He worries this negatively affects men's hopes about fatherhood.

The everyday sexism I face as a stay-at-home dad
"I do think if us men were taught to be more vulnerable, we could be more compassionate and empathetic," he suggests.

Mark Pursey, 46, from Sydney, Australia, also suggests that men find it difficult to foster friendships when they meet a new person, in stark contrast to many women who enthusiastically exchange contact information.

"I've definitely got a mental list of 'missed connections' where I met some guy at a random thing and got on really really well. Then it's like 'see you later dude' and we never meet again."

He says that in many cases this overwhelmingly leads to loneliness and isolation.

Mark says that's because men are "not learning the emotional labour stuff", adding, "we like to show off but not put in the boring maintenance work in relationships.

"It's like we still need play dates organised for us."

Sexual virility
Another issue talked about is men feeling uncomfortable when peers blatantly check out or sexualise women, commenting on their appearance.

"It can get toxic easily, and as a guy we're expected to contribute. It's happened a lot and it's so uncomfortable. Just being around that conversation makes me feel dirty," commented Alan Gretch, 21, from the US state of Nebraska.

Alan says these conversations are common especially when there are no women around: "They can range from 'this person is hot' to more graphic descriptions of girls."

He says it's difficult to challenge men when these conversations begin. "It's either bully, be bullied, or stay silent. It's a no win situation," Alan explains.

Anxiety about expectations of sexual virility was raised by several contributors on Twitter.

"The idea that if you're not: drinking heavily, trying to shag everything that moves, living and breathing sport, solving problems with violence, competing with other men to be the 'alpha', then you're not a man," wrote Neil Walsh.

Another user added that assumptions of sexual advances are often made when he tries to be "just friends" with women, adding "Yes I know there are very good reasons for this."

I don't want to be a daddy
Gin Lowdean, from Edinburgh, Scotland, revealed that her four-year-old son told her he doesn't want to be a dad when he grows up. Instead he's "excited to be a mummy".

When Gin pointed out that most men don't become mothers, he became sad because "Daddies have to work all the time, they never get to dance and nobody hugs them."

Gin explained that she was shocked because her husband is very affectionate with his sons, but she presumes her son picked up the idea from nursery and television.

"His dad was devastated, he hugs him all the time and loves to dance," she explained, adding that to try to rectify the issue by purchasing books about how to express feelings and stories that challenge traditional masculinity.

By Georgina Rannard, UGC & Social News

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-45908983

[The Stormbringer]

I mean... yep. Sadly I don't have much more to say on the subject, the article covers it pretty well. It doesn't even go into things like how a man watching over children will be many times more likely to be seen as a predator or creeper rather than a parent or guardian, whereas the same almost never happens for a woman.

[Eggroll]

At least we are at a point where discussions like these happen. This would probably have been impossible one or two decades ago. Slow and steady...

[prwraith]

I mean... yep. Sadly I don't have much more to say on the subject, the article covers it pretty well. It doesn't even go into things like how a man watching over children will be many times more likely to be seen as a predator or creeper rather than a parent or guardian, whereas the same almost never happens for a woman.

This is one I think about sometimes. If I ever have a kid, god help me if its a daughter, its bad enough if its a son and I'm seen alone with them.

[McFuu]

An important topic to acknowledge



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-45908983

Complaining about issues that affect men on this website will get you labeled a red piller or whatever fucking lines of dialog are cool today.

My unpopular opinion: men's life aren't supposed to be fair. Men are shouldered with unreasonable burden because we can take it. Historically so, we are responsible for ensuring the survival of family, community, tribe etc... When war comes to our doorstep, men fight because we are built for it...
Point is that while the climate is changing, millions of years of natural instinct isn't going to change over night, or really in a span of 20 years that men's rights have become a problem.

[Theoris]

Yep, pretty spot on.

[IIamaKing]

I mean... yep. Sadly I don't have much more to say on the subject, the article covers it pretty well. It doesn't even go into things like how a man watching over children will be many times more likely to be seen as a predator or creeper rather than a parent or guardian, whereas the same almost never happens for a woman.

Oh man, the looks I get with my 4 year old going to the park, and Im a fairly good looking (yes really) well kept guy, Its not much an issue now as the moms who frequent the parks near me recognize me, but new parks or moms? Not the warmest welcome.

[Natta Lmo]

lol... men have a far easier life than women... if i was born a man then my life would have been easier...

[prwraith]

lol... men have a far easier life than women... if i was born a man then my life would have been easier...

In what ways would your life have been easier?

[Coolthulhu]

Another issue talked about is men feeling uncomfortable when peers blatantly check out or sexualise women, commenting on their appearance.

"It can get toxic easily, and as a guy we're expected to contribute. It's happened a lot and it's so uncomfortable. Just being around that conversation makes me feel dirty," commented Alan Gretch, 21, from the US state of Nebraska.

Alan says these conversations are common especially when there are no women around: "They can range from 'this person is hot' to more graphic descriptions of girls."

He says it's difficult to challenge men when these conversations begin. "It's either bully, be bullied, or stay silent. It's a no win situation," Alan explains.

This is excessive. One can call people hot without being toxic at all. But there's some truth to the rest, I suppose.

[LiiLoSNK]

So tl;dr some guy crying about how his dad doesn't kiss him on the lips and how he has no friends because anybody who doesn't wanna hang out with a crybaby man is "toxic"?

[IIamaKing]

So tl;dr some guy crying about how his dad doesn't kiss him on the lips and how he has no friends because anybody who doesn't wanna hang out with a crybaby man is "toxic"?

Unintentional irony or were you trying to model the behavior being discussed?

[Independent voter]

"I've been saying this forever. There's a stigma about men talking about feelings. We're born into thinking that a man should be 'tough', and push his feelings aside because it isn't 'manly'."


It isn't manly. You need to get drunk off your ass before you share your feelings. That's socially acceptable.

[Spectral]

While this is all anecdotal, I've personally found being a better embodiment of classic masculine virtues to be helpful for my health, happiness, and emotional stability. I suppose the counter to that is, "well, that's not toxic masculinity then", but at some point, that gets fairly tautological. I like being physically fit and strong, stable and calm when others are wound up, the head of household and able to support my wife, someone that's skilled and athletic enough to engage in competition, and so on. Each of these has a positive framing and another framing that can be construed as "toxic", but I don't see any of these being things that are typically advocated as virtuous by the sorts of people that think eliminating "toxic masculinity" would be helpful.

[LiiLoSNK]

Unintentional irony or were you trying to model the behavior being discussed?

I skimmed it and was asking for clarification. I was right, right?

[Socialhealer]

So tl;dr some guy crying about how his dad doesn't kiss him on the lips and how he has no friends because anybody who doesn't wanna hang out with a crybaby man is "toxic"?

you're one of those "alpha" men we get it, i've seen your posts you act like you're the toughest person alive, but it's the internet so you look like a joke.

[Natta Lmo]

In what ways would your life have been easier?

people would trust i can do something i say i can do instead of questioning, wouldnt be downplaying ur skills and knowledge because ur a woman... more opportunities, more money to make... less indecent suggestions or behavior from male coworkers or customers in ur work... wouldnt have to think as much about how u behave when u are drinking or risk being sexually assaulted... women arent put off if men take initiative in dating but if women take initiative in dating a lot of men are put off... if u are upset about something then people wouldnt try to blame it on ur cycle... i would be stronger naturally without exercise...

[LiiLoSNK]

you're one of those "alpha" men we get it, i've seen your posts you act like you're the toughest person alive, but it's the internet so you look like a joke.

I'm so alpha because I don't go cry on the internet about how people with different interests than me don't want to be my friend?

The bar for alpha for you is incredibly, yet understandably, low lol.

[Dextroden]

I was going to say what a good article that's going to end up shit on because of the subject matter. And Lilo made it a reality.

Edited: And Joskue makes two.

[LiiLoSNK]

You're so alpha that you cant display emotions in public. Good 2 know.

Where did I ever say that? The imaginations on these kids today, I swear.