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  1. #501
    Looking through this post, I see a couple people suffering from being undergeared for current content, and being caught in the loop that is geared being required to get gear. My suggestion is to focus on where you are and how you enjoy the game, and really consider if certain areas of this game are enjoyable to you.

    But, if after considering that, you feel like you would like to skip into a higher bracket of play from where you are, the pug system is not the place to do it. The pug world is slow, both in speed of progression, the need to repeat progression with different players, the amount of time you devote to joining groups, and the amount of time you spend gearing up. You simply cannot end up anywhere close to the cusp of content (be it gear or achievements) when living in this world.

    If you want to get mythic gear, you have to join a mythic guild. There are definitely guilds out there that will take you in, even as a fresh player, to participate in a trial period to demonstrate your skills, personality, and dedication. A lot of these recruiters won't care about numbers performance, but will specifically clue in to your mechanics and personality.

    If you want to push m+ and get 'invited' to groups really easily, you need to find a small group of players that will take you in and get you progressed gearwise to match you skill. You really can't do it without a reliable group of players, so that should be the focus of your playtime, rather than trying to make the best of what you can living in the pug world. You don't need a guild, but you do need a playgroup. Try and utilize the communities feature.

  2. #502
    Quote Originally Posted by Cathbadh View Post
    And with no proof one way or another, would you hire the unproven carpenter to build your home, investing your resources and own time into it, or would you go with the proven one?

    Most people would go with the proven one. They'd check Angie's List or another review and go with the one who seems best just as many group makers check Raider.io. Few people are willing to risk their own resources, whether its money for a house or a key that would be downgraded with time wasted on an unproven person when plenty of proven people are available.
    When you're paying someone else to play with you, or when their poor workmanship can wind up causing more problems, this analogy will make more sense.

    Lots of folks have an incredibly misguided sense of what their leisure time is worth though, so....
    Cracked polystyrene
    "Get all the trust beat outta you. And you know what the fuckin' world is" -A.S.

  3. #503
    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    When you're paying someone else to play with you, or when their poor workmanship can wind up causing more problems, this analogy will make more sense.


    Lots of folks have an incredibly misguided sense of what their leisure time is worth though, so....
    Cause problems as in killing the key? It may not matter to you but it clearly does to the player who has the key and to those who use R.io to mitigate these sorts of issues. As for your second statement, I don't know what to tell you. I personally value my leisure time quite a bit as I don't get a lot of it. Between work, raising a family, and regular adulting my free time can be very limited. I for one don't want to waste it risking taking unproven people when I have the option of taking a somewhat proven one. IMO the issue is more that lots of folks have an incredibly misguided sent of being entitled to someone else's leisure time.

  4. #504
    No raider IO = no chance of an invite.
    Quote Originally Posted by Breezy Badger View Post
    Fucking joke of a moderator you are.
    Quote Originally Posted by Veshx View Post
    To be fair, this whole sites moderators are a joke.

  5. #505
    Legendary! Tekkommo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alright View Post
    No raider IO = no chance of an invite.
    Yeah I don't get it, if you want to do M+ outside of your guild, why would you block raider.io? You have zero chance of getting invited to a high key, you'd probably be fine making your own group.

    edit: OP said he doesn't really do M+, which makes me wonder why even bother blocking it in the first place.

  6. #506
    Just to point out how ridiculous this all is




    It's inaccurate on almost all of my runs. I checked the requirements of my server and currently I would meet them all. Tol Dagor has a requirement +5, and I undercut WM by 2 minutes.

    My score should be much higher than it currently is.

  7. #507
    I run +10 every week, not using RIO at all, anyone applying mentioning RIO gets instant declined.

    I dont need RIO scrubs in my groups.

  8. #508
    Gear has failed as an indicator of baseline skill.

    Before, getting gear showed some level of competency, that you knew how to play your class. Now I see people above 360 who can't even do 6k dps in dungeons. Its mindboggling.

    I did my time and struggled through dungeons learning them. I don't want to carry people all the time, and raider.io is the only way to ensure that.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by StayTuned View Post
    Just to point out how ridiculous this all is




    It's inaccurate on almost all of my runs. I checked the requirements of my server and currently I would meet them all. Tol Dagor has a requirement +5, and I undercut WM by 2 minutes.

    My score should be much higher than it currently is.
    So, raider.io counts in depletes as part of the score, and the way it was scaled at least in Legion, lower keys that you timed were worth more points than slightly higher keys you depleted. For example, a 7 key done in +2 time might be higher than a +9 depleted key, depending on time it took for completion. Thats likely whats going on here. Also depending on server and when you did keys, lower keys don't get captured. If you doing keys at the end of a week it might not count.

  9. #509
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaigar View Post


    So, raider.io counts in depletes as part of the score, and the way it was scaled at least in Legion, lower keys that you timed were worth more points than slightly higher keys you depleted. For example, a 7 key done in +2 time might be higher than a +9 depleted key, depending on time it took for completion. Thats likely whats going on here. Also depending on server and when you did keys, lower keys don't get captured. If you doing keys at the end of a week it might not count.
    No depleted keys and I made sure that my runs fit the requirements of my server.

    Fuck this. I'm gone to a super low pop server with loads of empty slots. I'm not taking this anymore

  10. #510
    Quote Originally Posted by swatsonqt View Post
    This is exactly where your opinion is wrong. In fact for the greatest part of the community +10s is not easy...doesn't matter for what reason. It simply is not that easy. All the people that gather in this forum, yeah for us it is easy - because this is somewhat the dedicated playerbase. Who actually go to forums and try to improve.

    And so the problem begins... you can't reach 1k rio? -> you're not allowed in anything above +5 -> can't get experience -> low rio -> not allowed into groups fpr higher keys.

    Just please for the sake of the discussion keep in mind: the avarage player can't manage target swaps. They can't tab + kick a certain spell. They don't know how to set focus and are overwhelmed by keybinds. -> +10s are not easy for the current playerbase...
    What are you arguing here exactly?
    People that have no chance of completing the content because it is to hard for them should be taken by others so they can 'fail together'?
    Content that is harder than Jimmy Twotumbs can't complete while munching down his cheetos should not be in game because that would be 'exclusive'?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by StayTuned View Post
    No depleted keys and I made sure that my runs fit the requirements of my server.

    Fuck this. I'm gone to a super low pop server with loads of empty slots. I'm not taking this anymore
    If your run made any leaderboard it will be picked up.
    Leaderboard updates Blizzard side take some time (typical 30 minutes).
    There is a small update delay on the raider.io site. You can force a manual refresh for your character (https://raider.io/add).
    The data you see in the addon is the latest version of the raider.io db you downloaded. If you installed the desktop client app, this will do this for you every few hours. If you did not do this, it will be the data from the last time you downloaded the add on update (probably through twitch/curse). The addon is refreshed daily on curse.
    The addon shows your highest scoring run. A lower key but with better times can outscore a higher one with worse times. You can always check on the raider.io site all your runs and how they scored.

  11. #511
    The Patient Zanarika's Avatar
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    Rating Players based on score from an add-on is so dumb. Back in Legion I used to run +12 and above with no problem by making my own groups. I initially got into a +15 group for the artifact appearance, and they didn't care about my score, by that time the highest I had cleared was a +5 or so because I didn't really care for M+ and together we cleared it on time and it was pretty okay! From then on I kept using my own keys with no problems. Sometimes it became harder due to the affixes which were kinda nasty but apart from that it was chill. If I saw that my group couldn't clear it I'd just let the Key drop one or two numbers of difficulty and go back. It was all just to have some good fun.

  12. #512
    Field Marshal redwolfrain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Price View Post
    How the hell did you do that ?? i don't raid don't do M+, how do yet all the 370 + gear ??
    Unless he is pushing high mythic keys or arena in that hour, the highest Item level gear you can acquire is currently 370 from the from the mythic dungeon week quest, the warfront quest and the warfront raid boss. He could have also bought some high item level Bind on equips or got really lucky with titenforge. But I seriously doubt 379 without raiding. My main is 2/8 mythic and is not even 379 yet.

  13. #513
    I play casually and I'm at 1130 score.
    r.io isn't the issue - try working a bit harder.

  14. #514
    Quote Originally Posted by HuxNeva View Post
    What are you arguing here exactly?
    People that have no chance of completing the content because it is to hard for them should be taken by others so they can 'fail together'?
    Content that is harder than Jimmy Twotumbs can't complete while munching down his cheetos should not be in game because that would be 'exclusive'?
    If this was a single player game, I'd argue you're right.

    But it isn't. I had all of my Shrine of the Storm runs sabotaged on +5 (!!) because people were inapt. Unable to kick, not knowing mechanics... I can only carry people to a certain point. Counterspell has a 30sec CD. The list goes on.

    On the other hand, my other runs average out on about +8. My current Rio rating grew instantly to about 750 after I switched servers so that my runs actually get recorded. Suddenly, the invites have become less of an issue. But SOTS is still a pain, because people see my last run to be a +5 depleted @ 55 minutes. Fuck man.



    And thanks for the other info, I installed the client which seems to help update the runs more smoothly.

  15. #515
    Quote Originally Posted by StayTuned View Post
    It's inaccurate on almost all of my runs. I checked the requirements of my server and currently I would meet them all. Tol Dagor has a requirement +5, and I undercut WM by 2 minutes.

    My score should be much higher than it currently is.
    When did you update the addon? Is the website accurate?

    For security reasons, there is no way for an addon to contact the Internet from within WOW, and thus there is no way for the addon to keep itself up-to-date. What these guys do is essentially publish an "addon update" every day that contains a gigantic dump of player data that is up-to-date as of the previous day. The website should catch itself up relatively quickly*, but the addon will always be at minimum one day out of date and that's assuming you update it every day.


    * If you're top 500 in your leaderboard, blah blah blah.
    “Nostalgia was like a disease, one that crept in and stole the colour from the world and the time you lived in. Made for bitter people. Dangerous people, when they wanted back what never was.” -- Steven Erikson, The Crippled God

  16. #516
    Quote Originally Posted by Xar226 View Post
    When did you update the addon? Is the website accurate?

    For security reasons, there is no way for an addon to contact the Internet from within WOW, and thus there is no way for the addon to keep itself up-to-date. What these guys do is essentially publish an "addon update" every day that contains a gigantic dump of player data that is up-to-date as of the previous day. The website should catch itself up relatively quickly*, but the addon will always be at minimum one day out of date and that's assuming you update it every day.


    * If you're top 500 in your leaderboard, blah blah blah.
    No this is blizzards fault. I was doing runs on a server with extreme high requirements and people I've run with usually ended up being from high pop servers.

    Now that I've switched to a low pop server (because who cares), there are sooo many slots open and all my runs get updated pretty quickly, usually within an hour or so.

    Blizzard only shows the first 100. No idea why their API doesn't allow tracking of top 1000.

  17. #517
    Quote Originally Posted by StayTuned View Post
    No this is blizzards fault. I was doing runs on a server with extreme high requirements and people I've run with usually ended up being from high pop servers.

    Now that I've switched to a low pop server (because who cares), there are sooo many slots open and all my runs get updated pretty quickly, usually within an hour or so.

    Blizzard only shows the first 100. No idea why their API doesn't allow tracking of top 1000.
    The API tracks 500, but it should track more or have character API with their fastest run in time or something. Go to https://raider.io/mythic-plus/realms/us/current and hover over how many slots are left. Aerie Peak has 479 open for KR and if you click it, they have 21 recorded times. Blizzard's site only shows 100, however.

  18. #518
    Quote Originally Posted by Battlebeard View Post
    Well, you can go to youtube and find amazing guides, something that every raider should check. Before doing a boss, I always read upon tactics and what to do as my role. You can get ALL information by watching these videos. So, even if I don't have an achivement, I still know what to do. That PLUS previous expansions experience, should mean more than people who link achiv without impressive previous experience.

    That's my entire point, you should TALK to one another.

    As a group leader, what sounds best, the guy who know tactics very well from watching many kill videos AND who has Cutting Edge achivs etc from previous expansions, or a guy who just link Ahead of the curve, that he/she could just have bought and that person might be clueless and awful at the game.

    If you TALK to people, you can find out who is the best option to invite.
    Knowing how to do something in theory doesn't mean that you are actually able to do it. If that'd be the case, reading a guide for a mythic raid would result in a oneshot kill. You need to learn to actually execute the strategy proposed in the guide, and while a lot of it is coordination between guild members, it's also learning to respond to certain situations in the correct way through experience.

    So yeah, while the guy linking me AotC might've gotten carried, there's still a huge chance he'll perform better than someone who hasn't done the fight before. It's also about validation. I can't validate that you're a good player. I can't validate that you'll be able to execute the proposed strategy. I don't know anything about you. It's the same with the other guy, but if he links me AotC, at least I know he has seen the fight once before.

  19. #519
    Quote Originally Posted by reauxmont View Post
    Knowing how to do something in theory doesn't mean that you are actually able to do it. If that'd be the case, reading a guide for a mythic raid would result in a oneshot kill. You need to learn to actually execute the strategy proposed in the guide, and while a lot of it is coordination between guild members, it's also learning to respond to certain situations in the correct way through experience.

    So yeah, while the guy linking me AotC might've gotten carried, there's still a huge chance he'll perform better than someone who hasn't done the fight before. It's also about validation. I can't validate that you're a good player. I can't validate that you'll be able to execute the proposed strategy. I don't know anything about you. It's the same with the other guy, but if he links me AotC, at least I know he has seen the fight once before.
    Of course you have to do it in practise as well as knowing it in theory. But what I say is having ANY Cutting Edge achiv means more than having AotC: Ghuun, even in Uldir, as that Mythic raider is a better player. If he or she can do Cutting Edge, that person will obviously be able to handle ANY heroic boss, even better than the guy who has Curve.

    A raid with curved people might have needed 25 tries to get Curve, while a raid with Cutting Edge players might get it in 2-3 tries.

    A AotC raider will likely do better than someone without achiv, but if that person has Cutting Edge from any previous tier (or just high mythic raid exp), that person is obviously good and better than the AotC (assuming the AotC guy doesn't also hav mythic experience).

    Maybe we reason different, but this is how I see Mythic+ as well. If we do a dungeon +15, lets say Waycrest Manor, I would take in 100 of 100 times a guy who have done +25 Kings Rest but never Waycrest over someone who has done a +15 Waycrest but never a higher key.

    Mythic exp > Heroic exp, always, regardless of what raid.
    High keys exp> lower keys exp, always, regardless of what dungeon.
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