Why blizz keeps some classes on Low ?

[Kralljin]

All these people saying try this try that. I main shaman and even if I have more rating /gear /even raid experience, because of my class I dont get invited to m+ or rbgs. Its happened way too often that I'm starting to reroll classes that are auto invite. And yes i queue as healer and dps

Edit. Even the enemy teams dont have shamans. The dude is right. It's like 15x disc compared to shaman. If u look at statistics. For 2k + in arena, almost 25% of players are rogues and disc priests. For 3s and 2s

Source. https://www.worldofwargraphs.com/pvp-stats/classes

Okay, first off, stick to one point, i acknowledged above that Resto Shaman is in fact bad for RBG, so there's that, but suddenly you also throw M+ into mix.
I get it, Shaman sucks in a lot of areas currently, but this doesn't make the discussion any easier.

Regarding those statistics, simply taking two classes and throwing them into one pot is not a good thing, especially as the strength of Disc and Rogue doesn't neccessarily mean Shaman needs to be buffed, it means Disc and Rogue are too strong.

If you actually look at the statistics for 3v3 above 2,2k, you see that Shaman isn't doing that bad.

https://www.worldofwargraphs.com/pvp...v3/2200-rating

Resto Shaman is the 2nd best healer behind disc, Enhancement is also still on the Top 10.
So yeah, if you're up for 3v3 as Shaman, you should find mates, there are viable comps to play as Shaman.

Does this excuse the rest? No it doesn't, but that's another story.

[Druitz]

lol, you're really optimistic!

haha, yes i am Holinka is back and we all know BFA is complete shit compared to legion. They started unpruning, now let's hope they will add 4th honor talent so we can make use of new talents.

Maybe even shark arena will be finally fixed! Sadly i had no issue before it was disabled and now its disaster...

[Rainyhealz]

Okay, first off, stick to one point, i acknowledged above that Resto Shaman is in fact bad for RBG, so there's that, but suddenly you also throw M+ into mix.
I get it, Shaman sucks in a lot of areas currently, but this doesn't make the discussion any easier.

Regarding those statistics, simply taking two classes and throwing them into one pot is not a good thing, especially as the strength of Disc and Rogue doesn't neccessarily mean Shaman needs to be buffed, it means Disc and Rogue are too strong.

If you actually look at the statistics for 3v3 above 2,2k, you see that Shaman isn't doing that bad.

https://www.worldofwargraphs.com/pvp...v3/2200-rating

Resto Shaman is the 2nd best healer behind disc, Enhancement is also still on the Top 10.
So yeah, if you're up for 3v3 as Shaman, you should find mates, there are viable comps to play as Shaman.

Does this excuse the rest? No it doesn't, but that's another story.

It just sucks how far u had to scroll down to see a shaman spec for rbgs above 1800.

And I'm not sure where u see rshaman 2nd. All other healers are above them in 2s and 3s as well except holy

[Deleted]

but its needs a rune and gives runic power. Npcs dont use recources.

Well it also requires a priest. Players don't use other players as a resource yet. This is just something datamined, it could be nothing since the ability is not even flagged as player ability. Also in beta DKs actually had a dispel which later went to DH. Don't think Blizz would add something like that in the middle of a xpac.

[Kralljin]

And I'm not sure where u see rshaman 2nd. All other healers are above them in 2s and 3s as well except holy

In the link within the post you quoted...?

[BlueRemedy]

Classes being only numbers now and being insanely boring amplifies how bad the tuning feels.

It's just a trash game all around

[Deleted]

Well it also requires a priest. Players don't use other players as a resource yet. This is just something datamined, it could be nothing since the ability is not even flagged as player ability. Also in beta DKs actually had a dispel which later went to DH. Don't think Blizz would add something like that in the middle of a xpac.

the priest "requirement" can be cos' its a clone of mass dispel. Who knows, I just want to play my favourite spec since Wotlk again

[Rainyhealz]

In the link within the post you quoted...?

Yea idk how. U aren't reading it right at all

[Druitz]

It just sucks how far u had to scroll down to see a shaman spec for rbgs above 1800.

And I'm not sure where u see rshaman 2nd. All other healers are above them in 2s and 3s as well except holy

Ofc rahaman is 2nd or even best healer atm. There are so mant disc because of rmp and jungle. Rdruid is trash, disc getting nerfed in 8.1. Mw ofc isnt better than rshaman and hpala isnt great since long time.

In 8.1 rshaman is going to be best arena healer.

Edit:rshaman 3244 atm r1 eu

[Elestia]

It's obvious they don't play those class/spec combinations and don't have anyone internally to champion each class, if they did the game would be a whole lot different. This is the case for Overwatch as well.

Shamans get Ion... look where that's landed us. Lol.

[Lilly32]

Okay, first off, stick to one point, i acknowledged above that Resto Shaman is in fact bad for RBG, so there's that, but suddenly you also throw M+ into mix.
I get it, Shaman sucks in a lot of areas currently, but this doesn't make the discussion any easier.

Regarding those statistics, simply taking two classes and throwing them into one pot is not a good thing, especially as the strength of Disc and Rogue doesn't neccessarily mean Shaman needs to be buffed, it means Disc and Rogue are too strong.

If you actually look at the statistics for 3v3 above 2,2k, you see that Shaman isn't doing that bad.

https://www.worldofwargraphs.com/pvp...v3/2200-rating

Resto Shaman is the 2nd best healer behind disc, Enhancement is also still on the Top 10.
So yeah, if you're up for 3v3 as Shaman, you should find mates, there are viable comps to play as Shaman.

Does this excuse the rest? No it doesn't, but that's another story.

im just curious as to why Shadow is so high. How can they be so damn awful in PvE yet own in PvP?

[Kralljin]

im just curious as to why Shadow is so high. How can they be so damn awful in PvE yet own in PvP?

Because PvE is not PvP.

PvE is a lot at less complex than PvP and really dumbs down some classes, which is partially attributed to the fact that in a raid, you're more than 10, whereas in Arena, you're just three.

As example, take abilities like dispel magic and purge, no one really goes "oh man, that's so strong!" in PvE, because you usually have at least one dispeller and that's it, in PvP however, that is not always the case and there are a lot more magical buffs around than in PvE.

Sure, a Hunter might outdps an Spriest, but if the Spriest keeps dispelling Hots / Shields from the focus target, you make the life of the enemy healer a lot more difficult.

Second, CC and stuff matters a lot more, Silence is an utterly strong ability, which is totally irrelevant in PvE.

Lastly, it doesn't matter how much damage you're doing, as long as that damage is lethal.

Best example is Resto Shaman, they aren't so damn strong because they are an OP healer, they are so damn strong because they can do stuff that no (or at least some) healer can do.
Resto Shaman has a range interrupt on a 12 second CD, you don't have to hug the pillar to avoid CC.
You can make your group basically immune against ST spells every 30 seconds for 3 seconds.
They can spam purge on the focus target if the enemy fails make any pressure, which can easily secure kills because as said above, you make a healers job a lot more difficult.

PvE very often just comes down to three factors:
1.Overall Damage / Healing
2.Defense (most notably immunity)
3.Mobility (extra points stuff like Blink)

As soon as at least two of these three points crumble, you're in a bad spot, PvP is different, because it has a lot more room for utility that isn't as needed or simply exists in abudance (like dispels).

[Nightheart]

I remember mop lock was op. The difference it was after rework what happened mostly for 5.2-5.4 where destro lock was a jack of all trades. And your right, its just bad design that they makes classes useless on purpose. There was better and worse classes but never were so bad that it meant free win for you.

It wasn't just Mop where Locks were OP as fuck. Cata and even some of WoD saw them pulling good numbers. I love my locks, I Feel they play great in BFA (Only have played Demo mind you) and that doesn't mean they are pulling GREAT numbers in BFA. I just think Demo plays really good this expac, who doesn't love an army of demons wrecking shit.

[Lilly32]

Because PvE is not PvP.

PvE is a lot at less complex than PvP and really dumbs down some classes, which is partially attributed to the fact that in a raid, you're more than 10, whereas in Arena, you're just three.

As example, take abilities like dispel magic and purge, no one really goes "oh man, that's so strong!" in PvE, because you usually have at least one dispeller and that's it, in PvP however, that is not always the case and there are a lot more magical buffs around than in PvE.

Sure, a Hunter might outdps an Spriest, but if the Spriest keeps dispelling Hots / Shields from the focus target, you make the life of the enemy healer a lot more difficult.

Second, CC and stuff matters a lot more, Silence is an utterly strong ability, which is totally irrelevant in PvE.

Lastly, it doesn't matter how much damage you're doing, as long as that damage is lethal.

Best example is Resto Shaman, they aren't so damn strong because they are an OP healer, they are so damn strong because they can do stuff that no (or at least some) healer can do.
Resto Shaman has a range interrupt on a 12 second CD, you don't have to hug the pillar to avoid CC.
You can make your group basically immune against ST spells every 30 seconds for 3 seconds.
They can spam purge on the focus target if the enemy fails make any pressure, which can easily secure kills because as said above, you make a healers job a lot more difficult.

PvE very often just comes down to three factors:
1.Overall Damage / Healing
2.Defense (most notably immunity)
3.Mobility (extra points stuff like Blink)

As soon as at least two of these three points crumble, you're in a bad spot, PvP is different, because it has a lot more room for utility that isn't as needed or simply exists in abudance (like dispels).

I understand the utility is better in Arena with dispelling and fear and silence but seen some videos of Spriests doing work in BGs. BGs might as well be PvE. Load up DoTs on all the red name plates then DPS down your focus. Or are SPriests not very good in BGs and only perform well in Arena. Just trying to figure out if its worth investing time leveling my level 90 SPriest when I dont really have all that much time to play due to work.

[Strake]

It's because they don't play the game enough.

[Druitz]

Hybrid tax.

Mage & rogue will always dominate arena and blizzard did this intentionally.
They want people to have a reason to roll mage or rogue.

Wait. RMx doesn't dominate bracket atm. Sadly 3v3 is caster bracket atm. World of shadow priests and bala druids

[Tyrannica]

Wait. RMx doesn't dominate bracket atm. Sadly 3v3 is caster bracket atm. World of shadow priests and bala druids

i wonder, if he meant 2s fun. In cata RM was sweet.

But honestly i miss the TBC era most when it comes to pvp and class balance/unbalance.

Unscaled Arenas, 2s fully Gladiator viable, no bullshit bgs with machines and even there, pvp was much more fun, because of the clear strenght and weaknesses and not so powerful healers(except full resi s4 Druids, but thats just 1 season)

Think about it: a time, where a mage or shadowpriest could actually go oom. Especially as fire mage had to drink after each kill, because of low mana and was in full gladiator gear.(that gave me almost no mana)

Ok, maybe this was a tad bit too harsh but casters to never ever go oom is stupid.

[Lilly32]

Wait. RMx doesn't dominate bracket atm. Sadly 3v3 is caster bracket atm. World of shadow priests and bala druids

so Turbo sucks now?

[Druitz]

so Turbo sucks now?

Turbo is tier 1 comp. Yes, you can play it with succes in mid rating but top ladders are rly dominated but shadow priests and bala druids. In 8.1 with shadow buffs and disc/bala nerfs most discs will go shadow for sure until nerfs after 2-3 weeks.

Look at leaderboards. There are no turbos in EU, only US got some enh shamans.

Let's hope holinka will do something about current retarded meta with unkillable sp/bala/rsham. I even liked ele/bala/rdruid during legion more than this op shit now

[Kralljin]

But honestly i miss the TBC era most when it comes to pvp and class balance/unbalance.

Personally, i think that's a "pick your poison" question.
While BC PvP was overall enjoyable, its flaws were horrible and sometimes downright disgusting.

BC Resto Druids were one of the most powerful healer i have ever seen in PvP, neither caster nor melees were able to kill these guys, their utterly insane CC on top of that, they couldn't go oom because Innervate and escaping for them to drink was super easy.
Remember Restokin? You know something is wrong if a class can get away with putting 31+ points into a Dps tree and still call itself "healer".

To this day, i still carry a grudge against the people that had a hand in BC PvP, because Resto druid received no significant nerfs during BC.

Then you have Rogues hopping around in Full PvE Gear+PvP Trinket, who needs Resilience if you have Vanish and Cheat death, right?

SL/SL Locks are immortal, well those Rogues in full PvE Gear can kill them, so they're balanced.

Or shit like Mace spec+Stormherald, random stun procs, one of the worst things in PvP ever.

BC PvP had its upsides, overall slower paced games and so forth, but the bad aspects are something that in my opinion still stand out to this day and luckily Blizzard had to the wisdom to actively avoid those negative aspects of BC PvP since then.

Think about it: a time, where a mage or shadowpriest could actually go oom. Especially as fire mage had to drink after each kill, because of low mana and was in full gladiator gear.(that gave me almost no mana)

Ok, maybe this was a tad bit too harsh but casters to never ever go oom is stupid.

I think it just catered towards classes that couldn't go oom and basically gave them an exit strategy for every game.
"Match seems to reach a stalemate"
"Just wait until one of their dps goes oom, then they're fucked"

And obviously Mana drain / Burn bullshit, eat a fear from a Priest and there goes 20%+ of your Mana.
Or hunters just running around with a scorpion so it becomes impossible to dispel Viper Sting.
(which was still a slotmachine as in BC you only dispelled a single buff instead of all of them)
Try to LoS Drain Mana? Haha, too bad, doesn't work.