Does it feel like BM hunters are falling off?

[Auryiel]

um fire mage?

Remind me again what's BM's equivalent to fireball?

BM's mobility is unrivaled.

On top of that, they can move during their immunity, mages cannot.

BM has access to a far wider range of utility spells, partly thanks to pets and the BfA revamp.

It is only natural that a spec that has so much to offer besides top tier damage does not have top tier damage. To what extent their damage should be taxed, opinions may differ, but I would wager most people agree BM does not deserve to do as much damage as specs that are nowhere near them on the other metrics.

[Queen of Hamsters]

What do you except for 1 button mongoloid huntard spec? You can't be top with the easiest spec ever been in history of WoW.

You being special enough to play the spec using just 1 button =/= that's the design of the spec.

[mmocfd1b0ab5a3]

I don't still get it why do people think having a good mobility should punish class' overall damage on boss.

Let's take a look at two players. One player is BM and another one is class X:

0-60 seconds into fight: Both players do their rotation during first minute of encounter, class X is doing better damage.
at 60 seconds: BM and class X do the same mechanic but class X can't do full rotation while BM can so he will catch class X in damage done. The only difference is that class X don't have to worry about rotation while BM do.
After they have handled the mechanic now both can do a full rotation again, class X will take the lead again.
Rinse and repeat.

So in the end why should BM be punished with overall damage. Just because he could do the rotation in addition to doing mechanics? Class X will do better damage anyway during full rotation phase so it doesn't matter if BM could do damage while moving.

Isn't it a easier for class X because he didn't have to worry about the rotation during mechanic phase?

[hulkgor]

I don't still get it why do people think having a good mobility should punish class' overall damage on boss.

Let's take a look at two players. One player is BM and another one is class X:

0-60 seconds into fight: Both players do their rotation during first minute of encounter, class X is doing better damage.
at 60 seconds: BM and class X do the same mechanic but class X can't do full rotation while BM can so he will catch class X in damage done. The only difference is that class X don't have to worry about rotation while BM do.
After they have handled the mechanic now both can do a full rotation again, class X will take the lead again.
Rinse and repeat.

So in the end why should BM be punished with overall damage. Just because he could do the rotation in addition to doing mechanics? Class X will do better damage anyway during full rotation phase so it doesn't matter if BM could do damage while moving.

Isn't it a easier for class X because he didn't have to worry about the rotation during mechanic phase?

Are you actually for real? I dont think i've ever read anything as absurd as this. You're probably trolling, if so, nevermind.

[Deleted]

Remind me again what's BM's equivalent to fireball?

BM's mobility is unrivaled.

On top of that, they can move during their immunity, mages cannot.

BM has access to a far wider range of utility spells, partly thanks to pets and the BfA revamp.

It is only natural that a spec that has so much to offer besides top tier damage does not have top tier damage. To what extent their damage should be taxed, opinions may differ, but I would wager most people agree BM does not deserve to do as much damage as specs that are nowhere near them on the other metrics.

you forgot double blink, mage has the perfect balance between dps and mobility. BM has too much mobility to the point where it is literally pointless as the encounters are not designed in a way that unlimited mobilty is a great boon

what is all the mobility in the world worth if you cannot capitalize on it

[mmocfd1b0ab5a3]

Are you actually for real? I dont think i've ever read anything as absurd as this. You're probably trolling, if so, nevermind.

Tell me then why should spec do less overall damage just because he could do damage while running? I would certainly trade mobility so I don't have to do full rotation every time, for cast times and higher overall damage.

Doing mechanics could be a joy!

I would understand if BM did a better damage while standing still, but that's not the case.

e: To be clear. I'm not talking about how BM hunters should do more damage on patchwerk. I'm talking about boss statistics.

Look at Mythic Taloc. Let's say it's 4 minute fight and hunter can do the full rotation 100% of time, thats 240 seconds. Arcane mage can do only 95% of time, thats 224 seconds.

Overall arcane mages are doing better at Mythic Taloc, are you saying hunters shouldn't do as well because they did their rotation 16 seconds more during fight?

[Nythiz]

What do you except for 1 button mongoloid huntard spec? You can't be top with the easiest spec ever been in history of WoW.

I know you're trolling.
But really mate. 1 button spec? That meme is getting rather old.
I bet 50% of the classes have less buttons to press and less mechanics to manage than BM these days.

At least try to put a bit more effort in these flamebait posts please.

Remind me again what's BM's equivalent to fireball?

BM's mobility is unrivaled.

Agreed. But let's not oversell the benefit of mobility. There is not a single situation where you need unlimited mobility.
And most other classes have plenty of mobility or other tools to get stuff done.
The only moment when BM mobility really shines is if truly unexpected movement is needed. Which is basically limited to very RNG mechanics (which there really aren't a lot of) and for progression fights where people don't know what to expect yet.

On top of that, they can move during their immunity, mages cannot.

No but Turtle has plenty of downsides. Our immunity does not dispel debuffs, our immunity can not be used while CC'ed.
Again both have pros and cons.

BM has access to a far wider range of utility spells, partly thanks to pets and the BfA revamp.

I wouldn't say we're poor in the utility side of things. But I also wouldn't really oversell it either. BM brings nothing that most other classes wouldn't also bring.
Pet's bring a lot of utility but in a lot of cases you have to chose. I can't bring both bloodlust and spirit mend; I can't bring mortal strike and dispel at the same time.
I don't really think I've heard many groups say: "Let's bring a (BM) hunter for the utility".

It is only natural that a spec that has so much to offer besides top tier damage does not have top tier damage. To what extent their damage should be taxed, opinions may differ, but I would wager most people agree BM does not deserve to do as much damage as specs that are nowhere near them on the other metrics.

I disagree. I think BMs does not offer that much more than other classes. I think that mobility is a very strong niche in mostly progressive fights, but outside of that BM does not bring so much extraordinary utility and survivability that we're instantly overpowered if we were to do competitive damage.

I don't still get it why do people think having a good mobility should punish class' overall damage on boss.

Let's take a look at two players. One player is BM and another one is class X:

0-60 seconds into fight: Both players do their rotation during first minute of encounter, class X is doing better damage.
at 60 seconds: BM and class X do the same mechanic but class X can't do full rotation while BM can so he will catch class X in damage done. The only difference is that class X don't have to worry about rotation while BM do.
After they have handled the mechanic now both can do a full rotation again, class X will take the lead again.
Rinse and repeat.

So in the end why should BM be punished with overall damage. Just because he could do the rotation in addition to doing mechanics? Class X will do better damage anyway during full rotation phase so it doesn't matter if BM could do damage while moving.

Isn't it a easier for class X because he didn't have to worry about the rotation during mechanic phase?

The whole mobility argument is IMO a bit overrated. On progression it's a noticeable advantage to have, but only because you can't predict damage patterns and movement yet.
I mean just look BM has dropped in the DPS charts if you compare 2 months ago to now. That's not purely because of the nerfs; that's mostly people simply getting to know the fights. If mobility really was so huge, BM would have been miles ahead of everyone, but it wasn't. It was a top 5 spec maybe, but definitely not extraordinarily high.

I've played a lot of ranged classes and there are never really many moments where you have to stay mobile for more than a few seconds. Nearly every class has some sort of ability to minimize the punishment of moving (blink / instant casts / portal / etc). And if you can predict it you can even build your rotation around it.

[Sastank]

Even if BM falls off purely from a DPS standpoint you're going to want to have them for full mobility and ability to handle mechanics and soaking. I'm surprised they've been allowed to do so well this long tbh. Maybe when they buff MM they will work on toning BM down some more.

[NeVeRLiFt]

Blizz swung the nerf bat early on Hunters and went overboard with it... and now as you can see, Hunters are not scaling well as ilvl goes up.
Does not help also that the pet A.I has went full retard and does not use Dash right or it's combat abilities! so unless you macro your pet's abilities to yours you won't be seeing your pet do any good.

[Deleted]

Even if BM falls off purely from a DPS standpoint you're going to want to have them for full mobility and ability to handle mechanics and soaking. I'm surprised they've been allowed to do so well this long tbh. Maybe when they buff MM they will work on toning BM down some more.

there is literally no mechanic that requires a hunter for anything in uldir

[Auryiel]

you forgot double blink, mage has the perfect balance between dps and mobility. BM has too much mobility to the point where it is literally pointless as the encounters are not designed in a way that unlimited mobilty is a great boon

what is all the mobility in the world worth if you cannot capitalize on it

But that's exactly my point.

Something's gotta give.

If there is too much mobility and too little, you can nerf one and buff the other, but it is not acceptable in my opinion to simply buff and let the overbearing strength intact.

[Deleted]

But that's exactly my point.

Something's gotta give.

If there is too much mobility and too little, you can nerf one and buff the other, but it is not acceptable in my opinion to simply buff and let the overbearing strength intact.

yeah ppl should understand that it is the result what matters

a class with unlimited mobility can do the same DPS as a class which doesnt have that and it would be balanced as it is the result what matters

if you have unlimited mobility but deal 0 dps whats the point as a dps

[Nythiz]

Even if BM falls off purely from a DPS standpoint you're going to want to have them for full mobility and ability to handle mechanics and soaking. I'm surprised they've been allowed to do so well this long tbh. Maybe when they buff MM they will work on toning BM down some more.

Going to want to have them?

There wasn't a single fight in Uldir where hunters were stacked to beat mechanics or were needed for soaking.
Demon hunters were stacked for some fights
Rogues were stacked for some fights
Warlocks were stacked for some fights

Hunters? No
So where is this extreme need to stack them for mechanics and soaking?

But that's exactly my point.

Something's gotta give.

If there is too much mobility and too little, you can nerf one and buff the other, but it is not acceptable in my opinion to simply buff and let the overbearing strength intact.

That would only be true if mobility was the only other feature besides DPS.
Other classes bring other things, how much do they weigh up against the "crippling lack of mobility they have"?

It's like saying, warlocks can't do as much dps because they bring portals which are almost gamebreaking mechanic wise.
Mages can't do as much dps as others because they bring arcane intellect, and virtually they are buffing the entire raid with dps indirectly.

So again, if mobility was SUCH a huge issue at the start of Uldir, why weren't hunters stacked on mass? Why weren't BM hunters topping the charts by miles (they were high, but certainly not ahead by miles)? Why are hunters not the go to class for
And now you see BM hunters dropping in the charts, as the advantage of this unlimited mobility quickly diminishes as fights become more and more predictable.

Other classes/specs keep proclaiming like mobility is the prime reason to nerf damage.
How much uptime do other classes really lose over the course of Uldir because they have to stop casting or use "subpar abilities" because they have to move?
Is that really more than a couple of % at most?

[Muajin76]

My hunter is BM for life baby! ;D never played another spec for a lengthy amount of time.

[Lenis]

Last time I checked BM Hunters is the most played spec in Mythic raiding. While you as BM Hunter want to have the longest dps number all the time, that's not how this game works. The reality is that BM Hunter was and still is one of the staples of Uldir progression. No crying in forum or dps number comparing from people who are heavily overgeared will change this.

As many already stated here only problem with BM Hunter might be scaling going into 8.1. You can check in warcraftlogs how it moves from bottom percentiles to top ones, from top position to middle of the pack. It is not that hard to read what's happening.

If you are progressing through Uldir as BM Hunter, you are in great position and there is nothing to be scared about. But you should be banking all the high ilvl gear in case there wont be any scaling buffs on 8.1.

[Nerrf]

What do you except for 1 button mongoloid huntard spec? You can't be top with the easiest spec ever been in history of WoW.

I have to admire anybody brave enough to refer to something as "mongoloid" yet cannot discern the subtle difference between "expect" and "except".

%t Dictionary

[ryjkur]

I have to admire anybody brave enough to refer to something as "mongoloid" yet cannot discern the subtle difference between "expect" and "except".

%t Dictionary

the truth hutrs you so much you had to nitpick about my typo.

[Ishan]

BM has always scaled poorly, simply because a large portion of our DPS comes from our pets.
It almost always the case that we start out pretty strong in an expansion and then we start dropping and falling behind quickly as ilvl increases.

There is a reason why they keep buffing BM every time we get around halfway through an expansion...
It's not going to change anytime soon.

[Deleted]

That 5% nerf really fucked our ass. But hey, lets wait a WHOOOOLE friggin patch before we nerf DH:s



Blizzard is a complete joke.

[Sastank]

there is literally no mechanic that requires a hunter for anything in uldir

But there are ones that require soaks and people running to things. BM Hunters do this without losing DPS moving. i.e. Zul. Hunters are good at turtling in them. If an Orb is in a bad spot on Zek? Hunter. Sure, nothing "requires" a hunter but they make life easier on everyone.

- - - Updated - - -

Going to want to have them?

There wasn't a single fight in Uldir where hunters were stacked to beat mechanics or were needed for soaking.
Demon hunters were stacked for some fights
Rogues were stacked for some fights
Warlocks were stacked for some fights

Hunters? No
So where is this extreme need to stack them for mechanics and soaking?




That would only be true if mobility was the only other feature besides DPS.
Other classes bring other things, how much do they weigh up against the "crippling lack of mobility they have"?

It's like saying, warlocks can't do as much dps because they bring portals which are almost gamebreaking mechanic wise.
Mages can't do as much dps as others because they bring arcane intellect, and virtually they are buffing the entire raid with dps indirectly.

So again, if mobility was SUCH a huge issue at the start of Uldir, why weren't hunters stacked on mass? Why weren't BM hunters topping the charts by miles (they were high, but certainly not ahead by miles)? Why are hunters not the go to class for
And now you see BM hunters dropping in the charts, as the advantage of this unlimited mobility quickly diminishes as fights become more and more predictable.

Other classes/specs keep proclaiming like mobility is the prime reason to nerf damage.
How much uptime do other classes really lose over the course of Uldir because they have to stop casting or use "subpar abilities" because they have to move?
Is that really more than a couple of % at most?

Where did I say stack? Are you just saying things you want and arguing with yourself now? Lol. You quoted me. Bold the word stack in my post.