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  1. #661
    Saurfang sure is a piece of work

    the short story shows that he and Sylvanas fully discussed the attack on Teldrassil/upcoming conflict beforehand and he agreed with her arguments, agreed to attack and was prepared for the consequences


    he was & is totally fine with Horde potentially subjugating Alliance, sacking Stormwind (as long as it does not cost too much Horde lives), Alliance soldiers deaths etc. .. his only concerns are "honorable war" whatever that is and "get muh Horde back" .. not peace or Alliance lives .. yet he turns to that same Alliance


    honestly Anduin should nuke him with his SP powers

  2. #662
    Quote Originally Posted by Frostone View Post
    Tell me why would any strong leader leave responsobilities during the war time? If you are defecting from your own faction just to give an easy victory to your enemy, you are no leader at all, you are a traitor. Saurfang didn't kill Malfurion when he had one task, surrendered in BFL, now becomes part of alliance scheme. Do you think all those deaths during this war are nothing comparing to Saurfang's honor? Victory or Death has always been orcish warcry, but for Saurfang it is about "muh honor" first, victory or death later.
    Perhaps its because he and pretty much everyone else in WoW know there are still greater threats out there and randomly attacking and trying to kill off the top tier guys on the other side dooms your own people as well?

  3. #663
    Quote Originally Posted by Frontenac View Post
    You're right, He didn't suddenly change his mind. Because he was shown to be opposing Sylvanas since the beginning of this expansion. He sees the Horde following a path of destruction and wants "his" Horde back. Since the beginning.
    this is flat out false

    read "A Good War"

  4. #664
    The Lightbringer Frontenac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Life-Binder View Post
    this is flat out false

    read "A Good War"
    This is before the expansion. After the burning of Teldrassil, he's pretty much contesting every decision from Sylvanas. That's what we are seeing in game.
    "Je vous répondrai par la bouche de mes canons!"

  5. #665
    Quote Originally Posted by Frontenac View Post
    This is before the expansion. After the burning of Teldrassil, he's pretty much contesting every decision from Sylvanas. That's what we are seeing in game.
    yeah

    which means he changes his mind compared to the actual beginning (A Good War), when he agreed to start the war vs the alliance



    taking alliance lives is fine with Saurfang (since that IS a good thing for the Horde), its HOW you take them that he is picky with

  6. #666
    Quote Originally Posted by Life-Binder View Post
    yeah

    which means he changes his mind compared to the actual beginning (A Good War), when he agreed to start the war vs the alliance



    taking alliance lives is fine with Saurfang (since that IS a good thing for the Horde), its HOW you take them that he is picky with
    Even more funny is the potential ending where everything gets blamed on Sylvanas, possibly Nathanos and a sub-faction of Forsaken while everyone else gets off free.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow.

  7. #667
    The Lightbringer Frontenac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Life-Binder View Post
    yeah

    which means he changes his mind compared to the actual beginning (A Good War), when he agreed to start the war vs the alliance



    taking alliance lives is fine with Saurfang (since that IS a good thing for the Horde), its HOW you take them that he is picky with
    Exactly. His gripes are not against the war, but against the present leadership. He agreed to start the war, but did not agree to burn Teldrassil. Or for Sylvanas blighting her own troops. It's not war he opposes, but what the Horde has become. And we see that in Darkshore, then in Lordaeron and in the "Old Soldier" cinematic. That is why I'm saying he has not changed his mind, even less that Anduin made him change his mind on that matter. The only thing that seems to have changed is that he is now willing to actively do something about it, instead of brooding in his cell.
    "Je vous répondrai par la bouche de mes canons!"

  8. #668
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Life-Binder View Post
    Saurfang sure is a piece of work

    the short story shows that he and Sylvanas fully discussed the attack on Teldrassil/upcoming conflict beforehand and he agreed with her arguments, agreed to attack and was prepared for the consequences


    he was & is totally fine with Horde potentially subjugating Alliance, sacking Stormwind (as long as it does not cost too much Horde lives), Alliance soldiers deaths etc. .. his only concerns are "honorable war" whatever that is and "get muh Horde back" .. not peace or Alliance lives .. yet he turns to that same Alliance


    honestly Anduin should nuke him with his SP powers
    Saurfang was prepared to enact a war with the Alliance by performing a lightning attack on Teldrassil, securing it, capturing the Azerite en route to the location, and holding it ransom while bleeding the Alliance dry on all the other fronts. That was the war compact that Sylvanas sold him on, and then she flipped the script and prompted a brutal sacking (and in many eyes a genocide) of the Night Elves to "break their hope." This is not a consequence that Saurfang was prepared for, and not one he was willing to accept (as it very strongly recalls the genocide of the Draenei in which Saurfang was a willing participant).

    He wanted to defeat the Alliance - and he was willing to kill many of them to do it, but he didn't want to decimate them utterly or drive them into extinction (or worse, into mass undeath). That was how he defined a "good war" for the Horde - with the Horde finally able to leave in peace without the fear of Alliance power hounding them across the seas and around the face of the planet. The war Sylvanas has created, and the acts of the Horde under her leadership, are not things Saurfang would've ever agreed with or abided by. The most cursory study of his character seems to pretty easily show that.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." - The Player, "Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead"

  9. #669
    He wanted to defeat the Alliance - and he was willing to kill many of them to do it, but he didn't want to decimate them utterly or drive them into extinction
    wow, how noble of the traitor

  10. #670
    The Unstoppable Force Arrashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Life-Binder View Post
    wow, how noble of the traitor
    I just love the idea of "I want to murder people in moderation".

  11. #671
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    I just love the idea of "I want to murder people in moderation".
    "I want to kill enemy combatants who fight back, but not slaughter the civilians." I fail to see how this doesn't make sense. He remembers the Path of Glory and has no desire to repeat that.

  12. #672
    The Unstoppable Force Arrashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KaPe View Post
    "I want to kill enemy combatants who fight back, but not slaughter the civilians." I fail to see how this doesn't make sense. He remembers the Path of Glory and has no desire to repeat that.
    You forgot "They are defending their home after I attacked them" part.

    Wew, much honor.

  13. #673
    Quote Originally Posted by KaPe View Post
    "I want to kill enemy combatants who fight back, but not slaughter the civilians." I fail to see how this doesn't make sense. He remembers the Path of Glory and has no desire to repeat that.
    Yet ignores the extermination of the Quilboar by his own people for example. Saurfang hasn't really learned a thing he just cares more for the people who were slaughtered.

  14. #674
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    You forgot "They are defending their home after I attacked them" part.

    Wew, much honor.
    His definition of honor clearly isn't Lawful Good and isn't intended as such, but it still makes sense as a Horde commander. He took part in what was supposed to be a war of conquest, not annihilation. Instead, Sylvanas made him participate in a repeat of something he already did in the past and despised himself for doing.

  15. #675
    Quote Originally Posted by KaPe View Post
    "I want to kill enemy combatants who fight back, but not slaughter the civilians."
    "I want to kill soldiers for fun" basically? I don't even know what to say. Saurfang is in this war to kill people? Because he likes killing people? Imagine meeting a soldier who gets off to killing other soldiers. They fight back so it's not bad?!

    What Arrashi says is true. He wants to murder in moderation.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow.

  16. #676
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    You forgot "They are defending their home after I attacked them" part.

    Wew, much honor.
    You make it sound like this is an unnatural position.
    We have a lot of soldiers right here on earth who believe this. Its fine to fight other soldiers to keep your country/future safe. Burning women and children in their home goes to far.

    This is not new or unnatural.
    Saurfang basically supports the Geneva convention.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  17. #677
    Quote Originally Posted by Hubbl3 View Post
    "I want to kill soldiers for fun" basically? I don't even know what to say. Saurfang is in this war to kill people? Because he likes killing people? Imagine meeting a soldier who gets off to killing other soldiers. They fight back so it's not bad?!
    You described almost every orc in existence, orcs thrive for war as long as they deem it honorable.

  18. #678
    The Unstoppable Force Arrashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    You make it sound like this is an unnatural position.
    We have a lot of soldiers right here on earth who believe this. Its fine to fight other soldiers to keep your country/future safe. Burning women and children in their home goes to far.

    This is not new or unnatural.
    Saurfang basically supports the Geneva convention.
    Yes, and we still consider those people deranged, not honorable. This is why so many soldiers can't really fit into society after war is over.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    You described almost every orc in existence, orcs thrive for war as long as they deem it honorable.
    Its funny how as it is, saurfang is warhammer orc....soy edition.

  19. #679
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    Yes, and we still consider those people deranged, not honorable. This is why so many soldiers can't really fit into society after war is over.
    Exactly that.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow.

  20. #680
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    Its funny how as it is, saurfang is warhammer orc....soy edition.
    Never order soy when you can have the original fungi

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