Page 26 of 29 FirstFirst ...
16
24
25
26
27
28
... LastLast
  1. #501
    Bloodsail Admiral Verazh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Denmark
    Posts
    1,037
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    i would want the source on that
    There is none. He pulled it out his arse.

  2. #502
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    i would want the source on that
    Quote Originally Posted by -Zanarika- View Post
    Can you back up your claim?
    Quote Originally Posted by Verazh View Post
    There is none. He pulled it out his arse.
    actually, it may be the case that this is true. which is retarded, but still true.

    there is one zandalari warlock in bfa, he's called something "the grifter"(can't remember his name), and he's an exile in vol'dun that you're tasked to kill by a wanted poster.

  3. #503
    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    actually, it may be the case that this is true. which is retarded, but still true.

    there is one zandalari warlock in bfa, he's called something "the grifter"(can't remember his name), and he's an exile in vol'dun that you're tasked to kill by a wanted poster.
    True, but the only reason for killing him was that he stole from other exiles, it had nothing to do with whatever magic he used:

    "To any with honor and a sharp blade: Find and kill the thief, Za'roco. Those that betray their fellow exile don't deserve to live. Any who can cross his name off this list will earn a fitting reward"


    I personally would love to see Zandalari playable as warlocks. Even if they aren't permitted by society as a whole we can go back to vanilla warlocks in Stormwind. This may have changed since I've played alliance back then, but did they not have to hide in a secret basement location to practice their arts? Wasn't the trainer in Northshire Abbey around the side in the graveyard avoiding the gaze of most people? Warlocks were represented as on the fringes of society, and the implication was that they weren't tolerated in the open. They hid, and most likely presented themselves as commoners or even mages, as most modern warlocks started out as anyway. It wasn't until War Crimes (unless I'm mistaken) that a mention of them being a proper part of society was given, when Varian looks at a warlock helping in the fight towards the end of the book and remembers back to when they weren't to be trusted.

    Why couldn't the Zandalari warlocks have a small coven in some forgotten passageway or room tucked within Dazar'alor? I see not allowing Mag'har, as that would quite literally just turn them into the green orcs we've had for some time, history has proven that. With something like the Draenei, they are a group of people who chose to reject the fel and warlocks, and the player character most likely was there thousands of years ago for that choice. Given the "immortality" of the Draenei, it doesn't make sense to have a character with no recollection of what happened on Argus so long ago. For any other race capable of using arcane magic, the jump to fel isn't that much of a stretch.

    All that being said, I would like to see much looser restrictions on race/class combos. This is no longer a world where the different races live in isolated societies. Given how much individual cultures come in contact with one another in the main cities these traditions would doubtless rub off on some outliers. Would a Tauren mage be a common thing? I doubt it, but it's within the realm of possibility that a Tauren was interested and dedicated enough to pull aside a Blood Elf and learn to use the arcane. We already have NPC examples of some of these rare exceptions to the rules, so why not let players do it as well? If numbers is the issue, remember how many playable races are canonically the "few survivors" and supposed to be small in number.

  4. #504
    Old God Syegfryed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Darkshore, Killing Living and Dead elves
    Posts
    10,937
    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    actually, it may be the case that this is true. which is retarded, but still true.

    there is one zandalari warlock in bfa, he's called something "the grifter"(can't remember his name), and he's an exile in vol'dun that you're tasked to kill by a wanted poster.
    he is a exiled who happen to be a warlock, there is tons of exiled who are not warlock, never stated tht he was exiled because he was warlock, could be lots of things, just like the other ones.

    saying that, there is not a single source saying tis illegal, and people who do would be executed or exiled, the only magic forbidden and illegal, as far we saw its the blood magic, who warlocks don't use

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Sylaz View Post
    I see not allowing Mag'har, as that would quite literally just turn them into the green orcs we've had for some time, history has proven that. With something like the Draenei, they are a group of people who chose to reject the fel and warlocks, and the player character most likely was there thousands of
    i don't think they would become green just because they are warlocks, not anymore, like we saw warlocks now barely use fel, and they control the power to not be corrupted, if not, every warlock would spot horns and wings with time.

    the maghar forbidden the warlocks in their society as a whole, that is indeed fact, because what happened in WoD, the sitgma they did, was rly big, and they didn't their power like the green orcs did.

  5. #505
    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    actually, it may be the case that this is true. which is retarded, but still true.

    there is one zandalari warlock in bfa, he's called something "the grifter"(can't remember his name), and he's an exile in vol'dun that you're tasked to kill by a wanted poster.
    True. But that may be an exception. By Blizzard logic it means "No connection to the fel energy" by the same way Kanrethad / Guldan can transform into demons but every other warlock suddenly forgot about it after years of using it. Great RP move right there. They are exceptions as well.

    Same for skinny Kul'Thirans. Guess they are not playable because they are exceptions (?).

    The honest answer is ofc. lazyness on Bli$$ side and saving development costs.

  6. #506
    Im still so sad that I cant race change my lock to Zandalari. Basically every transmog set I checked on wowhead looks incredible on them

  7. #507
    It wasn't hard really when they gave normal trolls warlocks anyways probably seem pointless to them to have them avb imho so they went with paladins instead.

  8. #508
    "It's okay because the lore changes Blizzard introduced at the same time as the decision say so"

  9. #509
    Quote Originally Posted by Lurker1 View Post
    It wasn't hard really when they gave normal trolls warlocks anyways probably seem pointless to them to have them avb imho so they went with paladins instead.
    It may just because of sheer class options zandalari have, with the addition of paladins they would have every non hero class otherwise.

    EDIT: And I just realized this is an older thread, whoops.

  10. #510
    Pandaren Monk Villager720's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Garithos (US)
    Posts
    1,755
    Quote Originally Posted by Bright-Flower View Post
    It may just because of sheer class options zandalari have, with the addition of paladins they would have every non hero class otherwise.

    EDIT: And I just realized this is an older thread, whoops.
    Yeah well, they shouldn’t have had monks. Less lore explaining that than warlocks.

    And no worries, sometimes we, like blizzard, make errors I judgement.

  11. #511
    In my defense Cuchucachu posted first!

    But I guess it would have come down to warlock or monk for them. The only exclusion that really irks me is lightforged monk and mostly just because they have zero leather classes because of it.

  12. #512
    Still a shit decision, all these months later.

  13. #513
    Bloodsail Admiral
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Russia
    Posts
    1,079
    Quote Originally Posted by Villager720 View Post
    Yeah well, they shouldn’t have had monks. Less lore explaining that than warlocks.
    Or shaman. There is not a slightest hint of Zandalari practising shamanism. Which is not surprising considering their culture is all about worshipping and bargaining with loa.

  14. #514
    Quote Originally Posted by Villager720 View Post
    Yeah well, they shouldn’t have had monks. Less lore explaining that than warlocks.

    And no worries, sometimes we, like blizzard, make errors I judgement.
    If you were an intelligent race whose empire and one you were allied to just lost a civil war, resulting in your allies losing their entire kingdom, wouldn't you look into how the peasants managed to overthrow their overlords? I'd find Zandalari NOT having monks to be more strange.

    It's no different than any other weapon. If your enemy invents it, you find out how it's made so you have it too.

  15. #515
    Bloodsail Admiral
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Russia
    Posts
    1,079
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    If you were an intelligent race whose empire and one you were allied to just lost a civil war, resulting in your allies losing their entire kingdom, wouldn't you look into how the peasants managed to overthrow their overlords? I'd find Zandalari NOT having monks to be more strange.

    It's no different than any other weapon. If your enemy invents it, you find out how it's made so you have it too.
    To my understanding, Zandalari didn't think that Pandaren had overthrown the Mogu because of their godlike martial arts. They thought that that had happened because the Mogu had relied on slavery too much which had made them weak (and that was not too far from the truth).

    However, all it would have taken Blizzard to justify Zandalari monks would have been to create an introductory quest telling us how some of them started worshipping new, previously unknown loa (August Celestials), and these new loa taught them how to be monks.
    Last edited by Trollokdamus; 2019-06-04 at 03:26 AM.

  16. #516
    Quote Originally Posted by Trollokdamus View Post
    To my understanding, Zandalari didn't think that Pandaren had overthrown the Mogu because of their godlike martial arts. They thought that that had happened because the Mogu had relied on slavery too much which had made them weak (and that was not too far from the truth).

    However, all it would have taken Blizzard to justify Zandalari monks would have been to create an introductory quest telling us how some of them started worshipping new, previously unknown loa (August Celestials), and these new loa taught them how to be monks.
    But the founder of the rebellion who killed the last emperor was a monk, the monks were the backbone of their army, and they certainly knew about the celestials. Remember the Zandalari are scholars and historians first and foremost. It's no stretch of the imagination that they would research how the monks got their abilities and, finding them to be powerful, would seek to use them themselves.

    As for the Celestials, they're some of the most mellow beings in existance. Look at all the damage Garrosh did, particularly to the Vale, and they admitted they knew he was going to get away and didn't do anything to stop it. I can totally see them teaching Zandalari monks, or at least enabling them, so long as those monks never tried to cause harm to Pandaria (there were no monks in Zul's fleet).

  17. #517
    Bloodsail Admiral
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Russia
    Posts
    1,079
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    But the founder of the rebellion who killed the last emperor was a monk, the monks were the backbone of their army, and they certainly knew about the celestials. Remember the Zandalari are scholars and historians first and foremost. It's no stretch of the imagination that they would research how the monks got their abilities and, finding them to be powerful, would seek to use them themselves.

    As for the Celestials, they're some of the most mellow beings in existance. Look at all the damage Garrosh did, particularly to the Vale, and they admitted they knew he was going to get away and didn't do anything to stop it. I can totally see them teaching Zandalari monks, or at least enabling them, so long as those monks never tried to cause harm to Pandaria (there were no monks in Zul's fleet).
    Hasn't the scholars and historians part been retconned? I'm pretty sure they are now depicted as a society of warriors and priests who value strength above all else. Anyway, just look at this from their perspective. The Zandalari despise slavery and see it as weakness. The mogu come to rely on slavery more and more, their civilization is literally built by slaves and also maintained by them. At this point mogu must look pathetic in the eyes of the Zandalari. Then a rebellion happens, a rebellion orchestrated by slaves who taught themselves unarmed combat. And the slaves succeed. Are the Zandalari to think that the slaves somehow granted themselves godlike powers, or that the mogu became so weak that they got outsmarted by their own servants? I think the latter. Besides, nothing on Zandalar indicates that they were ever interested in monk fighting styles.

    Celestials are no more or less powerful than the loa of Zandalar, maybe just a bit wiser and more civilized. Both groups have their moments of strength and weakness.

    I'm sorry if it's difficult to understand me, I should really be sleeping right now.
    Last edited by Trollokdamus; 2019-06-04 at 05:06 AM.

  18. #518
    I'm more disappointed that the Alliance have no interesting races with paladins.

  19. #519
    Quote Originally Posted by Trollokdamus View Post
    Hasn't the scholars and historians part been retconned? I'm pretty sure they are now depicted as a society of warriors and priests who value strength above all else. Anyway, just look at this from their perspective. The Zandalari despise slavery and see it as weakness. The mogu come to rely on slavery more and more, their civilization is literally built by slaves and also maintained by them. At this point mogu must look pathetic in the eyes of the Zandalari. Then a rebellion happens, a rebellion orchestrated by slaves who taught themselves unarmed combat. And the slaves succeed. Are the Zandalari to think that the slaves somehow granted themselves godlike powers, or that the mogu became so weak that they got outsmarted by their own servants? I think the latter. Besides, nothing on Zandalar indicates that they were ever interested in monk fighting styles.

    Celestials are no more or less powerful than the loa of Zandalar, maybe just a bit wiser and more civilized. Both groups have their moments of strength and weakness.

    I'm sorry if it's difficult to understand me, I should really be sleeping right now.
    I never heard anything about the scholars and historians part being retconned.

    Also everything you said about the mogu and zandalari and how they interacted.

    Though I'd have to say the proof is in the pudding. The Zandalari wield just about anything that will make them stronger besides fel and blood magic.

  20. #520
    Bloodsail Admiral
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Russia
    Posts
    1,079
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    I never heard anything about the scholars and historians part being retconned.
    What I meant was the "silent" type of retcon when nothing is openly claimed to be retconned, but newer information is at odds with the older one thus invalidating it. Zandalari were portrayed as scholars and historians up until Cataclysm, but since then they've been depicted differently.

    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    Also everything you said about the mogu and zandalari and how they interacted.
    It's a bit too much to quote here, but you can check out Wowpedia articles on Zandalari, mogu, and slavery in general. The source material ranges from novels to in-game texts.

    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    Though I'd have to say the proof is in the pudding. The Zandalari wield just about anything that will make them stronger besides fel and blood magic.
    Well, they certainly don't wield the Void or practice necromancy. Judging by what we see in-game, they are actually pretty limited to whatever power loa grant them (there's also Arcane taught to them by the mogu, but it's hardly shown anywhere and has no impact on the story). Zandalari monks and shaman may not even be considered canon as even after their introduction there is still zero evidence of them existing in the story.
    Last edited by Trollokdamus; 2019-06-04 at 04:19 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •