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  1. #541
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    Instead of looking at ways to go "Aha, Blizzard did another stupid retcon" did you ever stop to think "How can what we've been told before work together harmoniously with new lore?"
    I'm actually doing it all the time in order not to lose interest in the story altogether. But sometimes, the old and the new simply won't work together because they say the opposite no matter how you try to spin it. Take Algalon, for example. The newer lore states that he was going to send the code directly to the Forge of Origination, but during the fight he says: "Your actions are illogical. All possible results for this encounter have been calculated. The Pantheon will receive the Observer's message regardless of outcome." How on earth can the old lore work together harmoniously with the new lore in this case?

    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    Did we see the Zandalari, besides Old God servant Zul, going out to conquer people? No, they helped us.
    Uhm, yes, we did.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trollokdamus View Post
    When the mogu were dethroned, the Zandalari waged war on the Pandaren to claim their lands. Post-Sundering, the Zandalari aided the Amani in their war against High Elves.

  2. #542
    Quote Originally Posted by Trollokdamus View Post
    I'm actually doing it all the time in order not to lose interest in the story altogether. But sometimes, the old and the new simply won't work together because they say the opposite no matter how you try to spin it. Take Algalon, for example. The newer lore states that he was going to send the code directly to the Forge of Origination, but during the fight he says: "Your actions are illogical. All possible results for this encounter have been calculated. The Pantheon will receive the Observer's message regardless of outcome." How on earth can the old lore work together harmoniously with the new lore in this case?


    Uhm, yes, we did.
    Algalon sends the message to the Forge of Origination, it re-originates the planet, Algalon sends his message to the Pantheon that he had to re-originate the planet. The universe is a big place. Besides we heroes and Ra-den, who knows the Titans were even killed before the events on Argus? Loken didn't know. Algalon didn't know. None of the Keepers knew. Saying you're going to send a message to your boss not knowing they're dead is not a retcon. Problem solved. Like I said, you're going out of your way to look for ways it doesn't work.

    Helping an ally put down an uprising, or helping an ally fight off invaders who want to steal their lands, is not going out to conquer people. Did they ever go to lands that weren't controlled by themselves or an ally and try to take it for themselves? That's the usual definition of conquest.
    Last edited by cparle87; 2019-06-06 at 07:42 PM.

  3. #543
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    Algalon sends the message to the Forge of Origination, it re-originates the planet, Algalon sends his message to the Pantheon that he had to re-originate the planet. The universe is a big place. Besides we heroes and Ra-den, who knows the Titans were even killed before the events on Argus? Loken didn't know. Algalon didn't know. None of the Keepers knew. Saying you're going to send a message to your boss not knowing they're dead is not a retcon. Problem solved. Like I said, you're going out of your way to look for ways it doesn't work.
    Don't you see how ridiculous it sounds? Why would Algalon talk about sending a "message about the message" which was absolutely not relevant to the situation, but not the actual main message which it was all about? I mean, it's fine to make excuses, but they should be reasonable.

    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    Helping an ally put down an uprising, or helping an ally fight off invaders who want to steal their lands, is not going out to conquer people. Did they ever go to lands that weren't controlled by themselves or an ally and try to take it for themselves? That's the usual definition of conquest.
    Could you please check the source material before making such claims? When the Zandalari invaded Pandaria, their allies were no more, different people were living there at the time. The Zandalari weren't trying to help anyone, they intended to conquer and take the land by force. Next, they weren't helping the Amani to fight off any invaders, you're confusing time periods. At the time, Quel'thalas was already a thing, had been a thing for millenia. The Zandalari helped the Amani to start an invasion so they could conquer their neighbour. Both of these cases are prime examples of the Zandalari "going out to conquer people".

  4. #544
    Quote Originally Posted by Trollokdamus View Post
    Don't you see how ridiculous it sounds? Why would Algalon talk about sending a "message about the message" which was absolutely not relevant to the situation, but not the actual main message which it was all about? I mean, it's fine to make excuses, but they should be reasonable.


    Could you please check the source material before making such claims? When the Zandalari invaded Pandaria, their allies were no more, different people were living there at the time. The Zandalari weren't trying to help anyone, they intended to conquer and take the land by force. Next, they weren't helping the Amani to fight off any invaders, you're confusing time periods. At the time, Quel'thalas was already a thing, had been a thing for millenia. The Zandalari helped the Amani to start an invasion so they could conquer their neighbour. Both of these cases are prime examples of the Zandalari "going out to conquer people".
    If your job was watching out for Azeroth's world-soul, and you had to reoriginate the planet, wouldn't you go and tell your bosses that you had to do it.

    The zandalari come to help the mogu overthrow the pandaren who overthrew them, and you try to tell me the mogu are no more? You do realize that in primitive times communication was slower? Are you trying to use the fact that the zandalari didn't come to help the mogu retake pandaria right away as proof that they were conquerors? For instance the king of england wrote in his journal on July 4, 1776 that nothing important happened today. And the issue that caused the US to go to war with England in the War of 1812 was solved before the first battle was fought. And the most famous battle took place after the peace treaty was signed.

    Also, how long do occupiers have to live in occupied land before you believe the people who lived on the land first no longer have any right to try to take it back? Is it millenia for you? The high elves are occupiers of amani land. They built their city on a holy cemetary. Nothing will change that.
    Last edited by cparle87; 2019-06-07 at 02:48 AM.

  5. #545
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    If your job was watching out for Azeroth's world-soul, and you had to reoriginate the planet, wouldn't you go and tell your bosses that you had to do it.
    Sure, but as I already said you wouldn't be telling that to those who are trying to stop you because what's the point? They care about you destroying their planet, not about what you're going to tell your bosses afterwards.

    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    The zandalari come to help the mogu overthrow the pandaren who overthrew them, and you try to tell me the mogu are no more?
    Once again not checking the source material, aren't we? The mogu as a nation, as an empire were no more. The Zandalari couldn't care less about the scattered clans and their infighting. They invaded because they wanted the plot of land promised to them by Lei Shen.

    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    You do realize that in primitive times communication was slower?
    You do realize that both peoples were masters of the arcane? You literally said that yourself a few posts ago. Stop grasping at straws.

    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    Also, how long do occupiers have to live in occupied land before you believe the people who lived on the land first no longer have any right to try to take it back? Is it millenia for you? The high elves are occupiers of amani land. They built their city on a holy cemetary. Nothing will change that.
    Do you see the contemporary inhabitants of the American continent as occupiers and would support the natives fighting them as well?
    Last edited by Trollokdamus; 2019-06-07 at 11:56 PM.

  6. #546
    Stood in the Fire ScarUSMC's Avatar
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    I was pretty salty when I learned that Zanda Locks wouldn't be a thing.
    Personality: INTJ



    “You don’t have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.”
    – C.S. Lewis

  7. #547
    Honestly... My only motivation why I wanted to "unlock" ;-) Zandalari was to play a Zandalari Warlock. It's gone....

  8. #548
    I still have high hopes of them unlocking Zandalari warlock in the future.
    Edit Signature.

  9. #549
    Stood in the Fire ScarUSMC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inci View Post
    I still have high hopes of them unlocking Zandalari warlock in the future.
    Personality: INTJ



    “You don’t have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.”
    – C.S. Lewis

  10. #550
    I've been enjoying Orclock in Classic. Tides me over while I wait for Trolllock.
    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    My opinion is a fact.
    Having opinions are F A C T S.
    Stating you do not agree with my world has no impact on mine.
    It is not the same as talking about math either.
    This is talking about MY perception and so to me it is A fact.

  11. #551
    Field Marshal Archmage Zana's Avatar
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    Dunno if this thread is still relevant but just feel like saying that the same excuse that led Blizzard to not include Zandalari Warlocks somehow isn't applied to Vulpera Warlocks. Now I'd like to know where the Vulpera came in contact with the Fel, since that seems to be the standard now it's almost like the original Zandalari excuse wasn't relevant at all to begin with.

  12. #552
    Yep, no idea why Vulpera get Warlocks especially since they have 1 class combo more than Mechagnomes.

    Seems they just copy pasta'd class combos of Goblins and Gnomes, minus DKs (obviously) and plus Monk (still no idea why EVERY allied race got monk EXCEPT LF Draenei).

    The arbitrary decisions continue.

  13. #553
    Bloodsail Admiral Verazh's Avatar
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    Blizzard used a pathetic excuse, and that's just even more clear now. They are full of bs

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