Zandalari get their paladins, but Kul Tirans don't get MAGES?!

[JacobusRex]

So, why? Of all the classes they don't get, why not one of the core / pure classes in the game? I mean, it's one that makes the MOST sense besides Rogue, Warrior, Hunter and Priest...

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE that they got Shamans and I WILL play one, but I really wanted to race-change my Mage to Kul Tiran...

[A Chozo]

Yeah it's weird.

We see some Kul'tiran fire mages in Tol Dagor;
There are Kul'tiran using frost magic, who belong to the Tidesages faction;

But, if I got it right, Kul'tiras distrust Arcane magic (or... all magic they don't understand). I didn't play as Alliance, but while traveling in Kul'tiras, I didn't meet any Arcane-user, and the playable Azerothian mage uses Arcane as a base to cast Fire and Frost.

Alas, with the return of Jaina, Kul'tiran Mages could be explained by her training the initiates, and while you travel across Azeroth, the Alliance trainers will teach you the rest of the arcane arts.

[valky94]

Yeah it's weird.

We see some Kul'tiran fire mages in Tol Dagor;
There are Kul'tiran using frost magic, who belong to the Tidesages faction;

But, if I got it right, Kul'tiras distrust Arcane magic (or... all magic they don't understand). I didn't play as Alliance, but while traveling in Kul'tiras, I didn't meet any Arcane-user, and the playable Azerothian mage uses Arcane as a base to cast Fire and Frost.

Alas, with the return of Jaina, Kul'tiran Mages could be explained by her training the initiates, and while you travel across Azeroth, the Alliance trainers will teach you the rest of the arcane arts.

i havent seen any kul tiran mages that use arcane aswell, maybe those firemages are loosely based on shamans simmilar to how tidesages control the seas and the wind

[Krigaren]

I'm probably off-base, but I seem to remember lore from long ago that part of the reason Jaina was estranged from her family is because she left Kul Tiras to become a mage in the first place. That she basically tossed aside her birthright as a noble, and eschewed the life of a sailor for the arcane arts, which was unheard of for a Kul Tiran.

Which leads me to believe that Kul Tirans were never big on the whole book-learnin' mage thing, so there wouldn't really be any mages from that island?

[protip]

I don't think the comparison has any value, but I do agree that Kul Tirans should be able to be mages. With Jaina and the sheer number of water elementals the Kul Tirans have around, it just doesn't seem right not to be able to play a Kul Tiran frost mage. It could be argued that Kul Tirans make their contracts with those water elementals in the way that a shaman gains his powers, but the player experience is that water elementals are a frost mage ability, and I think denying players that intuitive relationship is a mistake.

[The Stormbringer]

Kul Tirans should absolutely be mages. We see fire mages, we see frost mages, and we've got the quintessential Kul Tiran Mage as their leader, Jaina Proudmoore. Not to mention that her father, the Admiral, dabbled in magic as well.

Give us Kul Tiran Mages, Blizzard. It makes no sense not to have them.

[Deleted]

I don't think the comparison has any value

Sure, it is not "if X is, then Y must be", but it has some value.
And to prove it, I will recount the in game background for both race/class combinations.
Zandalari paladins are based off trash mobs in a raid, and quest text from Zul'gurub armor quests. There, the Zandalari say, that the beliefs of the paladins are foreign to them, and that they are heathens within Zandalari society. This arguably lends as much credence to them not being "proper paladins" or at least a minor faction in Zandalar.
In BfA they are giving us the background for the Prelates we encounter in Throne of Thunder, but (spoiler alert) they lose their god and source of power during the story.

In WC2, Kul Tiras used mage units, and in WC3 they had archmages and hydromancers. Of course, this was perhaps to fit in with the tech trees of other Alliance factions, but consider that the Hydromancer was added specifically as a human replacement to the elven sorceresses.
Baradin Hold was built by Kul Tiran wizards according to Cataclysm lore, that does not seem refuted so far.

I'm probably off-base, but I seem to remember lore from long ago that part of the reason Jaina was estranged from her family is because she left Kul Tiras to become a mage in the first place.

Probably. I cannot find any mention that Jaina was estranged because of arcane magic or that Kul Tirans hold a general distrust of it. Current lore is that Katherine managed to get the Kirin Tor to tutor her prodigal daughter, and nothing older I can find seem to indicate otherwise. If anything, she was the "pride of her nations eye" prior to Daelin's death.
All the other human kingdoms have historically had mages, but there is a great lack of explicit mages on Kul Tiras in BfA. Its portal and enchanting trainers are tidesages, who seem to hold the general place of utility casters within Kul Tiran society.
I will admit I get into speculations, but several places in Stormsong Valley I recall arcane-like particles from the spells the tidesages cast (only the bridge to Shrine of Storms come to mind right now). If the tidesages practices are more natural than divine in origin, then maybe arcane and worship is blending more in Kul Tiran society than the other kingdoms, who worship the Light.
We know that darker factions in Kul Tiras probably use arcane magic, as the fire casters are either arcane in style of fire mages and destruction warlocks, or divine like a shaman or tidesage, and so far we don't know of a fire counterpart to the Tidemother.

Comparing Zandalari paladins and Kul Tiran mages is a perfectly good comparison, because it compares two very similar things, like what background would that class have. Arguably, Blizzard has implemented better and worse fits already, so there is not one single standard and really anything goes. And I guess that is what you mean.

[protip]

Sure, it is not "if X is, then Y must be", but it has some value.
And to prove it, I will recount the in game background for both race/class combinations.
Zandalari paladins are based off trash mobs in a raid, and quest text from Zul'gurub armor quests. There, the Zandalari say, that the beliefs of the paladins are foreign to them, and that they are heathens within Zandalari society. This arguably lends as much credence to them not being "proper paladins" or at least a minor faction in Zandalar.
In BfA they are giving us the background for the Prelates we encounter in Throne of Thunder, but (spoiler alert) they lose their god and source of power during the story.

In WC2, Kul Tiras used mage units, and in WC3 they had archmages and hydromancers. Of course, this was perhaps to fit in with the tech trees of other Alliance factions, but consider that the Hydromancer was added specifically as a human replacement to the elven sorceresses.
Baradin Hold was built by Kul Tiran wizards according to Cataclysm lore, that does not seem refuted so far.

Probably. I cannot find any mention that Jaina was estranged because of arcane magic or that Kul Tirans hold a general distrust of it. Current lore is that Katherine managed to get the Kirin Tor to tutor her prodigal daughter, and nothing older I can find seem to indicate otherwise. If anything, she was the "pride of her nations eye" prior to Daelin's death.
All the other human kingdoms have historically had mages, but there is a great lack of explicit mages on Kul Tiras in BfA. Its portal and enchanting trainers are tidesages, who seem to hold the general place of utility casters within Kul Tiran society.
I will admit I get into speculations, but several places in Stormsong Valley I recall arcane-like particles from the spells the tidesages cast (only the bridge to Shrine of Storms come to mind right now). If the tidesages practices are more natural than divine in origin, then maybe arcane and worship is blending more in Kul Tiran society than the other kingdoms, who worship the Light.
We know that darker factions in Kul Tiras probably use arcane magic, as the fire casters are either arcane in style of fire mages and destruction warlocks, or divine like a shaman or tidesage, and so far we don't know of a fire counterpart to the Tidemother.

Comparing Zandalari paladins and Kul Tiran mages is a perfectly good comparison, because it compares two very similar things, like what background would that class have. Arguably, Blizzard has implemented better and worse fits already, so there is not one single standard and really anything goes. And I guess that is what you mean.

They're really not that similar, and even if they were, I believe that they should each independently exist regardless of whether or not the other exists. The Kul Tirans of WoW have certainly taken inspiration from previous games, but in pursuing deeper development of their culture, Blizzard has created something new. Once something is added to WoW it is far more important to maintain consistency within WoW itself than it is to make things consistent between various games. I will say again that I agree that Kul Tiran mages should be playable, but because people want them and because at least the frost specialization is thematically appropriate. As far as the culture and fantasy that the Kul Tirans of BfA are concerned, mages would be an addition, that I support, but do not take for granted. The modern, Alliance allied residents of Kul Tiras do not use the arcane.

To be honest, I think trying to defend the idea based on the idea that Kul Tiran mages existed in the past or in previous games hurts the case more than helps it, because modern Kul Tirans were made to fill a different fantasy.

[Krigaren]

Comparing Zandalari paladins and Kul Tiran mages is a perfectly good comparison, because it compares two very similar things, like what background would that class have. Arguably, Blizzard has implemented better and worse fits already, so there is not one single standard and really anything goes. And I guess that is what you mean.

I'm just trying to think of any lore reasons why Kul Tirans wouldn't be mages, cause it wouldn't make a ton of sense to omit them if there wasn't one already established. It would certainly make more sense than Kul Tirans being able to be shaman or druids though.

But in the vein of things that never made sense - I'm still salty about the omission of Worgen paladin. Blizzard means to tell us that there were never any Gilnean paladin when their next closest neighbor is Lordaeron and the entire northern part of the Eastern Kingdoms was basically the homeland of the Silver Hand and paladin order?

[Ysil]

They dont have enough mana to blink those fat bodies.

[exochaft]

When Blizz adds Boat Magic as a 4th mage specialization, we'll get Kul Tiran mages. It's likely still in testing.

[Jester Joe]

I don't think the comparison has any value, but I do agree that Kul Tirans should be able to be mages. With Jaina and the sheer number of water elementals the Kul Tirans have around, it just doesn't seem right not to be able to play a Kul Tiran frost mage. It could be argued that Kul Tirans make their contracts with those water elementals in the way that a shaman gains his powers, but the player experience is that water elementals are a frost mage ability, and I think denying players that intuitive relationship is a mistake.

They also use totems though, so I'm not sure why people keep bringing them up as an example

[Deleted]

There's a reason Jaina had to learn in Dalaran and not Kul Tiras.

Tidesages are resto shaman/priests.

Although I think Jaina could absolutely open up a new academy/school to teach them to become mages, the same way the Pandarens teach everyone how to be Monks.

[Kathranis]

In case the timestamp doesn't work, 14:47.

Q: "[...] Is there any reason the Kul Tiras humans can't be mages?"

Alex Afrasiabi: (Shaking head) "Y'know, I... We're gonna have a- we're going to talk about it again. That's what I'm going to tell you. You're gonna hear different con- you're- I'm gonna just tell you, here's your Lost Codex exclusive: I'm with you. I'm with you, but I'm one voice. I'm loud, though. And I can be snarky... No, um, y'know we fought back and forth on this. I think part of it is always going to be, how do they look when they're in the midst of doing this thing that's integral to their class, like spellcasting?

"[...] And so, I agree. And I think, look, if you've got Jaina Proudmoore, probably the most powerful mage on Azeroth, she's a Kul Tiran. By golly... I've never used that in my life. By golly, the other Kul Tirans should be mages as well. I may lose this battle, by the way. But I do want to say that I agree, and this is just to show you, like, we're passionate developers. We don't all come out like a bunch of automatons that are all looking at the same thing, agreeing about the same thing. We all have our different opinions.

"Um, I cannot promise you that Kul Tirans will be mages. I cannot make that promise, but what I can promise you is that we'll have the discussion. Um, and y'know, maybe they can, maybe they will, maybe they won't. Maybe at some future date, down the line, we'll have some questline where Jaina comes down and... admonishes Blizzard staff, and -- I'm kidding. I'll make that quest myself."

[Alex86el]

it is indeed weird how they dont get mages, or even warlocks.
they can be scary creepy witch druids and hydromancer-whatever-shamans.. but not mages or locks.
and its not like they're gonna be a super popular race either, do it wouldnt hurt to have more combos availiable.

[Keyblader]

When they give a lore reason why, just remember that Blizzard brought Orcs from another dimension and timeline to our world just to give us brown skinned orcs.


They literally moved reality to give them to us.

I am going to use this answer, any time someone gives me some bullshit "cuz lore" excuse haha

[Kaver]

Optimally they really needed to make a new class fitting the Kul Tiran theme. Of course they are not going to do that though.

[munkeyinorbit]

So, why? Of all the classes they don't get, why not one of the core / pure classes in the game? I mean, it's one that makes the MOST sense besides Rogue, Warrior, Hunter and Priest...

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE that they got Shamans and I WILL play one, but I really wanted to race-change my Mage to Kul Tiran...

Here's a tip for a new members. Read the front page before u go into rage. Sometimes your wish is right there.

[ZazuuPriest]

lets just take this moments to LOL at all the edgelords that said wed never get Troll Paladins. Your resentment is delicious.

[Tom Anderson]

Um yall not play Drustvar? We literally spent the whole zone killing witches.
Kul Bois ain't down with the magic.