Should the Warcraft become more creepy?

[Oneirophobia]

I still wish that Random Void Elves explode into tentacles and start attacking their own.
It would actually show how unstable and dangerous being infused with Void magic is and how Void Elves must constantly fight against it.


ALso, it'd be hilarious

That one void elf you encounter on island expeditions is definitely on the verge of doing that. She's completely crazy.

[Vakir]

Counterargument: The entire Ulduar raid. Including and especially Yogg-Saron. You can be Rule of Cool 40k-style and even super-hammy while still having genuinely creepy elements. Yogg-Saron kind of proves that.

He doesn't, though. Ulduar is one of my favorite raids, and I adored the Yogg-Saron fight from a mechanical perspective, especially running with one or less Keepers. But it was ridiculous from a "creepy" or horror perspective. Nothing about Sara felt like a proper deception. Nothing about Sif felt like a deception either, for that matter. She's instantly a shrieking and immensely stupid caricature of a shrill, evil harpy of a wife. Every single thing Yogg-Saron has his hand in SCREAMS that he does and it feels utterly and completely displaced from anything resembling what an Old God, a foreign entity completely devoid of mortal understanding, should.

He even fucking recounts exactly what his plan is, right down to criticizing us for in-fighting, despite that we will continue to do so. He fucking TELLS US in no uncertain terms every single major event he has played his hand in despite that it completely devalues the plots of the powers that be and later the Twilight's Hammer up to this point.

Then his acting is outstandingly hammy - again, I really LIKE his voice, and I like the over the top nature of it, but nothing about it is creepy or horror-based. It reminds me of the Saturday Morning Watchmen parody of the squid from the ending. It's awesome, but it's not reflective of its original purpose.

A better example would be C'Thun, which, mechanical issues regarding some portions of his raid aside, got the tone correct. They don't broadcast him as the primary threat from the beginning. That's Vezax or even Roman'khan. He's a threat lurking in the background from the beginning with some indication of a greater influence in the broader questing experience.

Then you get to the whispers. They aren't actually showing up in your chat log - you hear them but they aren't fully registered in the game's own mechanics. That's properly creepy and unnerving, sometimes acting outside your consciousness. C'Thun himself has no dialogue. His encounter's mechanics remain dangerous and themed around the mind without BROADCASTING the idea of a "Sanity Meter" in-game, which has always devalued the separation of game mechanics and personal immersion, even when done relatively well like in Eternal Darkness. (It's not SCARY if my TV turns off due to the character having low sanity, it takes me OUT of the game and reminds me I'm playing one.)

Then fast forward to Howling Fjord in 2008 and you basically have giant neon signs flashing that say "OLD GODS" when you loot Saronite and the whispers show up deliberately and blatantly and they constantly just shove it in your face that it's Old God chicanery.

Another good example unrelated to the Old Gods is Karazhan. Again, I love Karazhan. It is a fantastic raid. I adore virtually every second of it. It fits with WoW's modern tone. But back when I walked through Deadwind Pass back in 2004, I ran into dusty signs and hanged bodies that instilled dread by what I didn't know. And the tower's aesthetic was mysterious enough without being arcane and fantastical to the point of being in my face.

...and then when I went inside, there were orc cherub paintings, comical murder robots, Haunted Mansion throwbacks, bombastic organ music...I felt like 999 Happy Haunts was about to play.

It's the division from how Blizzard does things now vs. how they did things a couple of decades ago. ...usually. WC2 narration and unit quotes were still hammy and ridiculous. But things definitely have become more accessible and less subtle over the years.

[Arenchac of Suramar]

He doesn't, though. Ulduar is one of my favorite raids, and I adored the Yogg-Saron fight from a mechanical perspective, especially running with one or less Keepers. But it was ridiculous from a "creepy" or horror perspective. Nothing about Sara felt like a proper deception. Nothing about Sif felt like a deception either, for that matter. She's instantly a shrieking and immensely stupid caricature of a shrill, evil harpy of a wife. Every single thing Yogg-Saron has his hand in SCREAMS that he does and it feels utterly and completely displaced from anything resembling what an Old God, a foreign entity completely devoid of mortal understanding, should.

He even fucking recounts exactly what his plan is, right down to criticizing us for in-fighting, despite that we will continue to do so. He fucking TELLS US in no uncertain terms every single major event he has played his hand in despite that it completely devalues the plots of the powers that be and later the Twilight's Hammer up to this point.

Then his acting is outstandingly hammy - again, I really LIKE his voice, and I like the over the top nature of it, but nothing about it is creepy or horror-based. It reminds me of the Saturday Morning Watchmen parody of the squid from the ending. It's awesome, but it's not reflective of its original purpose.

A better example would be C'Thun, which, mechanical issues regarding some portions of his raid aside, got the tone correct. They don't broadcast him as the primary threat from the beginning. That's Vezax or even Roman'khan. He's a threat lurking in the background from the beginning with some indication of a greater influence in the broader questing experience.

Then you get to the whispers. They aren't actually showing up in your chat log - you hear them but they aren't fully registered in the game's own mechanics. That's properly creepy and unnerving, sometimes acting outside your consciousness. C'Thun himself has no dialogue. His encounter's mechanics remain dangerous and themed around the mind without BROADCASTING the idea of a "Sanity Meter" in-game, which has always devalued the separation of game mechanics and personal immersion, even when done relatively well like in Eternal Darkness. (It's not SCARY if my TV turns off due to the character having low sanity, it takes me OUT of the game and reminds me I'm playing one.)

Then fast forward to Howling Fjord in 2008 and you basically have giant neon signs flashing that say "OLD GODS" when you loot Saronite and the whispers show up deliberately and blatantly and they constantly just shove it in your face that it's Old God chicanery.

Another good example unrelated to the Old Gods is Karazhan. Again, I love Karazhan. It is a fantastic raid. I adore virtually every second of it. It fits with WoW's modern tone. But back when I walked through Deadwind Pass back in 2004, I ran into dusty signs and hanged bodies that instilled dread by what I didn't know. And the tower's aesthetic was mysterious enough without being arcane and fantastical to the point of being in my face.

...and then when I went inside, there were orc cherub paintings, comical murder robots, Haunted Mansion throwbacks, bombastic organ music...I felt like 999 Happy Haunts was about to play.

It's the division from how Blizzard does things now vs. how they did things a couple of decades ago. ...usually. WC2 narration and unit quotes were still hammy and ridiculous. But things definitely have become more accessible and less subtle over the years.

Then see: Drustvar, Waycrest Manor, Sylvanas as a character in general now, really everything in Drustvar can't stress that enough, the actual events of the Burning of Teldrassil (Although admittedly some of the reasons were bad, it was some spooky shit when you got down to the civilian-saving part of it), the Void Elves' increasing callousness and willingness to send random Goblins in to eternal torment ect.

[Vakir]

Then see: Drustvar, Waycrest Manor, Sylvanas as a character in general now, really everything in Drustvar can't stress that enough, the actual events of the Burning of Teldrassil (Although admittedly some of the reasons were bad, it was some spooky shit when you got down to the civilian-saving part of it), the Void Elves' increasing callousness and willingness to send random Goblins in to eternal torment ect.

None of these are good. Drustvar I already addressed - they did a good job setting up the coven but then the witches turn into fodder. It's the same thing that ruined the xenomorph following Alien - when I see dozens of a thing built up as the uber-threat of horrific perfection get mowed down, it turns into "just another movie monster" made to sell toys and video games. The witches could've been big, dreadful threats, but they aren't. Everything is so over the top and "epicified" and by the end I've killed so many witches to the point where it wasn't just not creepy anymore but it was outright boring.

See also: Waycrest Manor. No subtlety. You'd be forgiven for thinking the damn place popped up already looking like the Blair Witch's anus was dragged all over it. It looks like a Halloween Horror Nights haunt, not a previously inhabited manor that just happened to fall to darker forces later.

Sylvanas is a mess, but that's an entire thread unto itself. The horrors of what she does and WHY she does it could be communicated far better and it devalues the impact of her when her deeds require everyone around her to act extremely stupid for them to play out the way they do. In a better written world, plans would've already come to fruition to stand in her way by now ("now" meaning post-8.1 story beats).

Basically, it's hard to feel emotionally impacted by the atrocities someone commits - and the real reasons why someone might do them - when it requires the story to break my suspension of disbelief.

That being said...I will grant you the Burning of Teldrassil - only not in Warbringers, which didn't get enough time to breathe, but the VERY brief moment we saw in Old Soldier. Seeing a few hands very subtley reach up in agony and hearing screaming in the background as it went up was actually legit chilling. It had balls to depict it in that way compared to the super-sterile way Warbringers did it other than Delaryn responded to it.

Basically, Blizzard is bad at subtlety. It's not necessarily a flaw...all the time. They're good at what they do in terms of their audience, which is to go SUPER over the top. When it works well, it's like James Cameron on a good day. When it doesn't, it's like Michael Bay. Loud, stupid, obnoxious.

Creepy/horror aesthetic =! creepy/horror. Dead Space is an action/shooter with horror elements. Say, Silent Hill 2 is an actual horror game.

[Arenchac of Suramar]

None of these are good. Drustvar I already addressed - they did a good job setting up the coven but then the witches turn into fodder. It's the same thing that ruined the xenomorph following Alien - when I see dozens of a thing built up as the uber-threat of horrific perfection get mowed down, it turns into "just another movie monster" made to sell toys and video games. The witches could've been big, dreadful threats, but they aren't. Everything is so over the top and "epicified" and by the end I've killed so many witches to the point where it wasn't just not creepy anymore but it was outright boring.

See also: Waycrest Manor. No subtlety. You'd be forgiven for thinking the damn place popped up already looking like the Blair Witch's anus was dragged all over it. It looks like a Halloween Horror Nights haunt, not a previously inhabited manor that just happened to fall to darker forces later.

Sylvanas is a mess, but that's an entire thread unto itself. The horrors of what she does and WHY she does it could be communicated far better and it devalues the impact of her when her deeds require everyone around her to act extremely stupid for them to play out the way they do. In a better written world, plans would've already come to fruition to stand in her way by now ("now" meaning post-8.1 story beats).

Basically, it's hard to feel emotionally impacted by the atrocities someone commits - and the real reasons why someone might do them - when it requires the story to break my suspension of disbelief.

That being said...I will grant you the Burning of Teldrassil - only not in Warbringers, which didn't get enough time to breathe, but the VERY brief moment we saw in Old Soldier. Seeing a few hands very subtlety reach up in agony and hearing screaming in the background as it went up was actually legit chilling. It had balls to depict it in that way compared to the super-sterile way Warbringers did it other than Delaryn responded to it.

Basically, Blizzard is bad at subtlety. It's not necessarily a flaw...all the time. They're good at what they do in terms of their audience, which is to go SUPER over the top. When it works well, it's like James Cameron on a good day. When it doesn't, it's like Michael Bay. Loud, stupid, obnoxious.

You have a good enough point - but, I still think that you underestimate Blizzard's writing. Their primary issue is inconsistency in my opinion, to be honest - most of their writers are actually really good by video game, much less MMO, standards, but they all have an entirely different vision of how the lore should go.

[Vakir]

You have a good enough point - but, I still think that you underestimate Blizzard's writing. Their primary issue is inconsistency in my opinion, to be honest - most of their writers are actually really good by video game, much less MMO, standards, but they all have an entirely different vision of how the lore should go.

I think a big part of it comes from the fact that the REAL people influencing its day to day impact in writing are people who aren't trained writers. A lot of these major events, boss mechanics, environments, etc. are from people great at their crafts from a utilitarian perspective but are not story-focused first and foremost. Alex Afrasiabi isn't a writer. The people they hire that ARE writers all have work that range from good to horrible (Lord of the Clans vs. War Crimes) but people overestimate their impact.

I think some of it ties to Blizzard's philosophy of "LET'S MAKE THINGS AS COOL AS POSSIBLE!" but...again, on a good day, that resembles other emotionally manipulative film makers that still manage to pull off their craft effectively.

This isn't really "Shit on Blizzard" thread intention so much as I...don't think horror is their strength, so they should go for a different angle.

[Destinas]

It's somewhat difficult to be creeped out in the Warcraft universe, mainly due to the fact that it's main medium is an MMORPG, as opposed to books, comics/manga, audio dramas, etc.

"Creepy" is a fine balance, because it can either slip into "cartoon villain" or "scary" - and "scary" slips into "jumpscare" easily. WoW doesn't really do jumpscares, and the ones that they have done are quite tame (like blackening out the screen and playing a scream sound, which was done under Niuzao temple in a quest). Outside of the game, the Azshara Warbringer video was creepy and a bit jumpscare-y with some visuals and some sounds. But, I don't think that they should rely heavily on being more scary, because it loses magic after a while, and some people just don't respond well to it at all.

A creepy feeling can remain creepy when there is mystery involved, which Blizzard honestly doesn't do well, or often. Some examples of simply creepy things in WoW are the Goldshire children (which is just a strange throwaway thing that happens) and the tea party quest in Drustvar (which also involves a child). Neither are explained, so they're just random events that have no backstory, and are also presented as innocent at first, only to turn creepy quickly.

Worgen/Duskwood were creepy in Vanilla, because there were only a few clues as to what the Worgen were, and why they did the things they did - which is entirely explained now with playable worgen, the Scythe of Elune, druidism, the Emerald Dream, etc, etc. It takes the power away from the creepiness to know that these are just Goldrinn-worshiping druids that are filled with his rage, instead of strange wolf-men summoned from an unknown dimension, stalking the woods.

As far as Old Gods, that too has been overexposed. Long ago, they were Lovecraft in a diet flavor, but they were also a bit more interesting due to their mystery. Little information was told about them, and little of it made sense. They existed to create chaos, and they could somewhat go toe-to-toe with even Titans (even rumored to kill one in Silithus). Now, we know they are the spawn of the Void Lords, sent to corrupt world-souls to take over the known universe, and they can be easily squished like an engorged tick by the Titans. Most sense of mystery, thus creepiness, is entirely gone now that we know who they are, and their motivations.

However, keeping things a mystery is also polarizing, because they can only not say things so long until it just becomes boring. Thus how players feel about Elune now, despite that Blizzard hasn't really stated much of anything concrete about Elune's identity so far. It's a tough balance, which Blizzard really isn't allowed to maintain on a game that's going on for 14 years now - even more with the rest of the franchise.

Can they still do it? Sure, they proved that they could in Drustvar. But, should they do it? Nah, it's not their strongest attribute.

[Trassk]

It's not creepy when we know who is behind it, a bimbo elf hunter mastering it with ease, and an ugly eyeball tree telling us all their plans.

Firstly hello fellow flowey.

Second this game, intact this company, is cartoonish at worst, comic bookish at best, so no, blizzard isn't capable of doing creepy.

[Eazy]

There are a few creepy things in WoW:
-Tirisfal zone with faerie dragons,
-the pentagram kids in the Elwynn Forest,
-Karazhan crypts,
-gnolls tents,
-ogre cauldrons,
-Thaddius,

The game became less mystery/scary when they introduced Chronicles(and Void Lords and shown us who/what they are).

[LazarusLong]

Drustvar is fucking lame, though. The initial stuff is great, setting up the coven itself and all its influences/aesthetic, but by the second act you're fighting a witch every other god damn quest area and their powers feel completely dumbed down and stupid as a result.

That's kind of endemic of the issue I see with Blizzard, frankly, is that their entire thing is "more bigger better" and "EPIC" without understanding what subtlety is - no matter what franchise it is. "We GOTTA focus 5 full seconds on Tychus' grenade having a Have a Nice Day message. We GOTTA make Diablo cackle like a maniac at every last thing. We GOTTA make the Old Gods make long epic speeches despite that, if we're inspiring them from Lovecraft, hearing their tongue for a quarter of a second should make you want to kill yourself."

They can't do subtle right and it's all based around camp and 80s Saturday Morning Cartoon tropes - which is fine, but when they WANT to do subtle, they bungle it massively.

Regarding the poll/title, I would WANT it to, but Blizzard's entire ethos runs against it. Everything has to be the biggest, loudest, and most COOOOOL thing ever. And when everything is dialed to 11, nothing feels big anymore.

I'm playing horde, and for horde player Dustvar is very fucking creepy. Our initial quest is to find the golbin workers gruesomly murdered by witches. Then all this tea party questline. So maybe it's Alliance questing that makes it lame, but overall zone design is on par of Deadwind pass I would say in terms of creepines.

[Rozz]

I voted no, bc despite liking the void stuff, old gods, and talented VAs... I can't trust them with full execution. They have done wonders with cameos, but when it's time to lift the curtains, it's always a let down. Ie: Emerald Nightmare raid.

I like what they have so far, but they could def up their game when it comes to how characters interact with the void. Plus I want void lords/gods to be actually...terrifying...in some way? Even the Naaru can be creepy when they start to 'scream' and fade black.

[Vakir]

I'm playing horde, and for horde player Dustvar is very fucking creepy. Our initial quest is to find the golbin workers gruesomly murdered by witches. Then all this tea party questline. So maybe it's Alliance questing that makes it lame, but overall zone design is on par of Deadwind pass I would say in terms of creepines.

Yup, it's short enough that it works. You encounter the mangled goblin wrapped up in the brambles followed by two encounters. It isn't long enough to wear its outcome out. Gets at least some pass.

[Theoris]

Sure. I think Ahn'Qiraj is the only time I've actually been creeped out by anything Old God related.

The Twilight's Hammer cult and the rest of the void stuff, though - they aren't very creepy.

[funcik]

The more numerous the audience is playing products, the more money Blizzard gets. Money decides everything))

[Clone]

Yes to creepy, no to Lovecraft rip off.

[Kadarne]

True. If shadow priest before was somebody,who used the shadow magic,now the shadow priest is 1 step away from becoming a member of the Twilight Hammer.

Well, I dunno, I don't see a problem with that, I mean, there's warlock and death knight.

[Cyram]

I never really found Warcraft to be creepy. It's PG-16 type of edgy videogame kind of action, to me - quite mild, almost low-tier creepy. I mean, you can see that when there's something that is even just a little bit over the cap of "creepiness" it's just labeled as horrific, Hitler-like type of aberrations, which kind of proves that Warcraft's story hasn't been particularly dark and creepy. It's fun and it's entertaining, but I wouldn't ask for it to be something that it's never been.
I'd be fine if they cranked it up and started doing actually creepy and morally grey™ stuff with their lorem though.

[Deleted]

What is anduin so lonely that he starts acting depraved and perverted to women?

And Sylvana's has secret biophile fantasies.

The corruption starts in the head.

[nothingsjim]

Wouldn't work since we will just charge at them at hack them to pieces. A large part of why Call of Cthulhu work is how little we know about those horrors, how helpless we are when fighting them, and how failure is inevitable in the end.

None of those can be applied in WoW, Chronicles provided us information about Old God and their agenda that the mysteriousness of their existence no longer exist. We kill Old Gods whenever we fight them, and eventual victory is all but assured to us.

Unless all you want is making thing look creepy, but that's just superficial like, why bother?