1. #1
    Immortal Jinro's Avatar
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    How is the shadow rotation supposed to be played?

    Are you supposed to just interrupt your mind flay if void bolt comes off CD? What about mind blast? Are you supposed to cast mind blast first or void bolt first if both are off CD?

    It seems like shadow rotation is really clunky.

  2. #2
    Stood in the Fire Joakim's Avatar
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    I love shadow rotation atm. Always cast void bolt if off cd. Pretty much cast everything "thats important" before mindflay. Mindflay works as a filler only.

  3. #3
    Yes, even though it feels weird, use 2 GCDs inbetween each void bolt. If for whatever reason you are delayed (say stunned or knocked back), it can sometimes be better to only use 1 GCD with a small bit of waiting for the void bolt.

  4. #4
    With good gear, it gets a bit difficult to fill the gap between void bolts with audible insults to wow devs.

    In AoE you just go for the devs moms just as soon as you void erupt.

    In a way, shadow is very smooth to play.

  5. #5
    Always clip mind flay if something else comes off cooldown. Never start mind flay if something else would come off cooldown in less than a GCD, better to wait and do nothing (even though your soul screams at you repeatedly "always be casting")

  6. #6
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
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    You mash your 2 buttons until you drop out of Voidform.

    That's literally it. It's the worst Shadow class design they have ever done.
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  7. #7
    Always prioritise like this:

    VB > MindBlast > Minflay

    At cases where you've picked DarkVoid or ShadowCrash, and you don't have anything to AoE at for the coming 20-30sec, use those as either insanity generators to keep in VF (better to use at higher stacks) or to go in VF - something which you just need to get a grip of as you go.

    Generally the rotation is not ideal as everyone here has said But is what it is... some improvements coming in 8.1.

    Another thing to keep in mind:

    - Use SW:P always, and Vampric Touch always BUT on targets which you reckon are going to live for at least 7-8 seconds, if that's not the case then just go SW:P as otherwise you're loosing DPS statistically speaking.
    - Interrupt MindFlay after 1-2 ticks if your VB/MindBlast are off CLD for sure
    - MindFlay is being replaced by MindSeer at 3+ targets
    - Use VoidBolt always prio even on bigger packs in between MindSeers to longer the duration of your DoTs
    - On fights which require your to move a lot, you need to be using VoidBolt to stagger your steps around the room as you can cast that on the go.
    You have to plan a lot in advance though. If you need to run like crazy and you're outside of VF, spam cast SW:P to at least generate some insanity
    - Offensive Dispersion (to remain in VF) is not as strong as it used to be in Legion and has minimal occasions when it could be valuable due to the overall rotation being weird and actually sometimes we do more DPS outside of VF or upon entering VF through VoidErruption (if you have Chorus of Insanity as Azerite trait)

    Bare in mind that even though everyone cries a lot about rotation/DPS, we're quite decent and in fact if you play very well you can be in the upper part of the meters - we have some rly strong fights in Uldir (Taloc, Fetid, Mythrax, G'huun) and we're just okay in Dungeons but we don't get much invited due to the stigma around SP as a whole.

    Skill cap is not as high as it used to be in Legion, where a wrong move in VF could cause really big discrepancies between DPS, but with the changes in 8.1 I think it will be closer because we will have longer VF and thus requirement for higher skill to execute those well.
    Last edited by Omedus; 2018-11-21 at 12:47 PM.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by zahlanzi View Post
    Always clip mind flay if something else comes off cooldown. Never start mind flay if something else would come off cooldown in less than a GCD, better to wait and do nothing (even though your soul screams at you repeatedly "always be casting")
    Counter to proper play. ABC applies to Shadow aswell.

    Start the MF then clip it on the next GCD, which will always get you 2 perfect ticks unless you have some weird bouncing latency.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tritolite View Post
    Yes, even though it feels weird, use 2 GCDs inbetween each void bolt. If for whatever reason you are delayed (say stunned or knocked back), it can sometimes be better to only use 1 GCD with a small bit of waiting for the void bolt.
    How does it feel weird? The CD on Void Bolt is always 3 GCDs, so it always lines up perfectly. VB (1GCD) - Filler (2 GCDs) - Filler (3 GCDs and VB is back up again) - repeat.

    The only time this changes is at 140% Haste, because the GCD stops scaling with Haste at 100%, while the VB CD keeps on scaling further. This results in a VB - filler - repeat rotation, but this is extremely rare. Atm it only happens if I have Hero, Berserking (Troll Racial) and an additional Haste proc like the Wep Enchant or Overwhelming Power up at the same time. And again, this VB - single filler rotation only starts happening at 140% Haste. You still do 2 fillers between every VB from 100 to 140% Haste aswell (Mind Flay included), even if the CD of VB is slightly less than 2 GCDs here. Standing there doing nothing (even for a split second) is still the best way in the game to kill your Dps no matter which class you're playing.


    On topic: Cast VB on CD, make sure your SW:V is never at 2 stacks/cast MB on CD, keep 100% uptime on both DotS. Line up your Mindbender and Dark Ascension in such a way that your 2nd cast of both (and all further casts until boss dies) are happening on CD. DA on 00:01, 01:01, 02:01 etc, while your Bender is cast at 00:06, 01:06, 02:06. This is not always possible if you have to move for an extended period of time, but it's your goal and "benchmark" for perfect play. The Mindbender timings are just an example, but most ppl who are getting top logs are popping it around 5-8 stacks. It can be delayed if you have Hero up for that voidform, but make sure you don't delay it too long, as it WILL fuck up your later timings and desync your DA/Bender CDs.
    Last edited by ThrashMetalFtw; 2018-11-21 at 10:36 PM.
    They're (short for They are) describes a group of people. "They're/They are a nice bunch of guys." Their indicates that something belongs/is related to a group of people. "Their car was all out of fuel." There refers to a location. "Let's set up camp over there." There is also no such thing as "could/should OF". The correct way is: Could/should'VE, or could/should HAVE.
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  9. #9
    Immortal Jinro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThrashMetalFtw View Post
    On topic: Cast VB on CD, make sure your SW:I is never at 2 stacks/cast MB on CD, keep 100% uptime on both DotS. Line up your Mindbender and Dark Ascension in such a way that your 2nd cast of both (and all further casts until boss dies) are happening on CD. DA on 00:01, 01:01, 02:01 etc, while your Bender is cast at 00:06, 01:06, 02:06. This is not always possible if you have to move for an extended period of time, but it's your goal and "benchmark" for perfect play. The Mindbender timings are just an example, but most ppl who are getting top logs are popping it around 5-8 stacks. It can be delayed if you have Hero up for that voidform, but make sure you don't delay it too long, as it WILL fuck up your later timings and desync your DA/Bender CDs.
    Sorry, what is SW:I?

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Jinro View Post
    Sorry, what is SW:I?
    Meant Shadow Word: Void. Dunno where the I came from
    They're (short for They are) describes a group of people. "They're/They are a nice bunch of guys." Their indicates that something belongs/is related to a group of people. "Their car was all out of fuel." There refers to a location. "Let's set up camp over there." There is also no such thing as "could/should OF". The correct way is: Could/should'VE, or could/should HAVE.
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  11. #11
    Always prioritize VB over SW:V or MB. If I have more than 1 sec before either of them come of CD I'll use MF and interrupt it. If it's less, then it's not worth it to trigger another GCD with MF so I'll just wait.

  12. #12
    I don't mind the current playstyle THAT much.

    The main problems I have with shadow is

    1) Lack of unique utility (you bring nothing a healing priest can't bring)
    2) Incomplete spec without talents (SW: Void, SW: Death, ToF, Dark Void should all be baseline imo)

    On topic, just interrupt MF with anything meaningful to cast tbh. VB > SW:V, however MB should have 2 charges by default as I said.

  13. #13
    Pandaren Monk Lulbalance's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yvaelle View Post
    You mash your 2 buttons until you drop out of Voidform.

    That's literally it. It's the worst Shadow class design they have ever done.
    I'd say this pretty much sums it up.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Jinro View Post
    Are you supposed to just interrupt your mind flay if void bolt comes off CD? What about mind blast? Are you supposed to cast mind blast first or void bolt first if both are off CD?

    It seems like shadow rotation is really clunky.
    You generally don't play with MB, in vast majority of cases you go with void, now.. there is no perfect rotation, you do different rotation under different circumstances, but when it comes to actual patchwerk rotation, the most optimal thing you can do (obviously other than 100% dot uptime, staying in voidform for as long as mechanically possible and using fiend on cooldown while being in voidform) is to make a difference between SW:VOID charges about 3 seconds, which means that you don't bust both of those charges right away when the fight begins, i could go deep and explain gcd by gcd why is this important but it's just too much and unnecessary talk.

    I'll just add one little thing, It's almost always better to learn on your own mistakes, once you know the very very basics then it becomes a simple math, you know exactly how much damage each spell does flat, then you consider any modifying traits that you might have and then you determine which spell YOU should give a priority, because my spell priority can be different from yours, because we might have completely different traits and both of them can be viable. When it comes to cancelling MF when SW:VOID charge comes online, you can see how many ticks you have left on MF, for example you have 3 ticks left on MF, you know exactly how much non-crit/crit damage each tick does and you also know how much non-crit/crit damage your void does, you just consider worst case scenario, like 3 MF back-to-back crit ticks vs 1 non-crit void and you come to a logical conclusion whether or not it's worth to cancel the channel, while also considering gcd aspect aswell
    Last edited by Chillside; 2018-12-01 at 11:46 AM.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Yvaelle View Post
    You mash your 2 buttons until you drop out of Voidform.

    That's literally it. It's the worst Shadow class design they have ever done.
    Well don't forget they promised a "re-work" for 8.1, and boy did they deliver....... >.< Blizz, bring orbs back please. It really gets my goat, because all they did was a tuning pass that absolutely did not have to wait (not that it's what i wanted).

  16. #16
    Mechagnome Syenite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yvaelle View Post
    You mash your 2 buttons until you drop out of Voidform.

    That's literally it. It's the worst Shadow class design they have ever done.


    I think i captured Ions fetish...
    All hail Ion Itsgonnacostus, the overlord of hypocracy

  17. #17
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syenite View Post
    I think i captured Ions fetish...
    Rofl that's pretty amazing ;D
    Youtube ~ Yvaelle ~ Twitter

  18. #18
    Hey we get the option to have a defensive CD that makes sense (Dispersion + Intangibility) and just have to give up any mobility we might have had. With out the talent Dispersion still fails where it failed before (solo content) and works just the same in content where it was fine before (group content with a healer).

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