Bull Market officially over!! Year heading negative.

[DarkTZeratul]

The stock market is rich people trading baseball cards.

Valuations are divorced from economic reality because the owners are themselves divorced from economic reality.

Stephen Colbert had financial journalist Andrew Ross Sorkin on last week, who explained that the Stock Market is, essentially, "what businesses expect the market to look like twelve months from now."

[Felya]

Stephen Colbert has financial journalist Andrew Ross Sorkin on last week, who explained that the Stock Market is, essentially, "what businesses expect the market to look like twelve months from now."

I would scratch that to mean... how far business believes the government is willing to go to save their asses.

[Breccia]

It's a case of presenting the statistics to tell the story you want it to.

The risk of "lying with statistics" (i.e. doing what you're saying) is that the data doesn't go away just because you show it in a positive light.

For example, more businesses closed their doors in the last 3 months than in the Great Recession.

Specifically, W's Great Recession cost 750,000 businesses, while Feb to April cost 3.3 million. Disproportionately small, poor ones, of course -- couldn't get those loans.

Anecdotal evidence isn't evidence, but, I've seen this before -- in post-Katrina New Orleans. That's just businesses sometimes -- larger or better-backed places can take a hit and keep going, even if they have to limp a while. But a little Mom and Pop place going without income for three, six, twelve months...yeah.

The question "will the disproportionately poor being out of work indefinitely lead to unrest" has also basically been answered.

[Rasulis]

crashed 53.00 -16.92 (-24.2%)


holy shit I cant even keep up while I type

50.05 -19.87 (-28.42%)

been what 3 minutes?

45.02 -24.9 (-35.61%)

hour later

39.00 -30.92 (-44.22%)

Speculative investing at its worst. There is no reason to buy the stock of a company that has been losing money for more than a decade and is in the midst of filing for bankruptcy. Some investors probably figure that since the stock is already penny stock they can buy it cheap, some fools will buy it at higher price, and they can dump it and make a quick profit. It seems JC Penney & Hertz stocks were experiencing the same phenomena. Although, in Hertz case, if it can restructure, the company can probably go back to being profitable.

I made this post on 05/29. In 6 trading days Apple market cap went from 1.38T to 1.49T. That's almost 18B dollar gain per trading day. Microsoft is lagging behind at 1.43T, but it also has a higher PE ratio. Google is within 3B of breaking the 1T threshold. The US will have four (4) trillion dollar companies. Unless it starts slowing down, at the current trajectory FB will hit the 1T mark early next year.

[Zan15]

Speculative investing at its worst. There is no reason to buy the stock of a company that has been losing money for more than a decade and is in the midst of filing for bankruptcy. Some investors probably figure that since the stock is already penny stock they can buy it cheap, some fools will buy it at higher price, and they can dump it and make a quick profit. It seems JC Penney & Hertz stocks were experiencing the same phenomena. Although, in Hertz case, if it can restructure, the company can probably go back to being profitable.

I made this post on 05/29. In 6 trading days Apple market cap went from 1.38T to 1.49T. That's almost 18B dollar gain per trading day. Microsoft is lagging behind at 1.43T, but it also has a higher PE ratio. Google is within 3B of breaking the 1T threshold. The US will have four (4) trillion dollar companies. Unless it starts slowing down, at the current trajectory FB will hit the 1T mark early next year.

Guess as it turns out robinhood traders are driving much of these mega movement stocks.
they have forums and a site dedicated to show where the herd is moving next.

they are organizing huge pump and dump actions.

crazy its like the penny stock craze of the 1990s all over again.

Chesepeak opened at 18....after closing at 68. sitting around 20-25 right now.

a lot of those "robinhood" folks lost their shirts

its almost like a pyramid scheme and only the people who got in at the start are making the money

[Rasulis]

Guess as it turns out robinhood traders are driving much of these mega movement stocks.
they have forums and a site dedicated to show where the herd is moving next.

they are organizing huge pump and dump actions.

crazy its like the penny stock craze of the 1990s all over again.

Chesepeak opened at 18....after closing at 68. sitting around 20-25 right now.

a lot of those "robinhood" folks lost their shirts

its almost like a pyramid scheme and only the people who got in at the start are making the money

Pump and dump is illegal. Somebody contact FBI White Collar Crime Division.

Just had to look it up. The last time they prosecuted somebody for pump and dump was back in 2018. Talk about lazy.

Two Executives Arrested for Pump and Dump Securities Fraud Scheme

[Zan15]

Pump and dump is illegal. Somebody contact FBI White Collar Crime Division.

Just had to look it up. The last time they prosecuted somebody for pump and dump was back in 2018. Talk about lazy.

Two Executives Arrested for Pump and Dump Securities Fraud Scheme

lol...wasn't the time before that martha stewart?

[Rasulis]

lol...wasn't the time before that martha stewart?

I thought that was for insider trading. My wife always thought that Martha Stewart received a raw deal from the Feds.

Some interesting number from S&P Global Platts.

The world still has 1 billion barrels in storage, and despite so called recovery, still producing 12 million barrels a day of excess capacity, and in the meanwhile people and countries around the world are doing their best to break their reliance on fossil fuels.

Now for the US numbers. Most of US oil companies need WTI crude to be around $50 - $60 per barrel to break even. Just to break even. Unfortunately, WTI crude been stubbornly staying at below $40 per barrel.

BP is shedding 10,000 workers, mostly in administrative roles. Chevron is eliminating 6,700 jobs. Nationally, 90,000 oil and gas workers have lost their jobs, while in Texas alone, the industry shed 26,300 jobs in April on top of layoffs in 2015 and 2016.

Fourteen oil and gas companies declared bankruptcy in April and May, compared with five over the same period last year. The corporate bond default rate is up to 12.5 percent, mostly because of oil companies unable to pay their debts.

The production cuts by OPEC and Russia are only intended to keep prices from dropping below $30. Russia is committed to keeping prices low so American shale oil drillers will not steal their market share ever again.

US oil states will need to diversify their economy. But then the writing was on the walls back in 2014 - 2015 and these states failed to heed that warning.

[DarkTZeratul]

Fourteen oil and gas companies declared bankruptcy in April and May, compared with five over the same period last year. The corporate bond default rate is up to 12.5 percent, mostly because of oil companies unable to pay their debts.

The production cuts by OPEC and Russia are only intended to keep prices from dropping below $30. Russia is committed to keeping prices low so American shale oil drillers will not steal their market share ever again.

US oil states will need to diversify their economy. But then the writing was on the walls back in 2014 - 2015 and these states failed to heed that warning.

So what you're saying is that the states who raged against "making us like Venezuela because socialism" are the ones actually most at risk of becoming like Venezuela by having too much of their economies tied to a crashing oil market?

[Zan15]

LOL Robin-hooders strike again

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/10/mark...last-week.html

You can track each of these stocks....

https://www.robintrack.net/


the correlations sure seems very suspect.

Also seems like there are huge coordinated social media groups that are running around getting them to focus on individual stocks. When they pump a stock they cause a short squeeze and drive the stock up double digits an hour costing a lot of people a lot of money. then they start to dump.

So you get something like this

https://www.robintrack.net/symbol/JFIN?symbol=JFIN

Its crazy, and so many robinhood traders miss the boat and get caught at the top

[Thepersona]

So what you're saying is that the states who raged against "making us like Venezuela because socialism" are the ones actually most at risk of becoming like Venezuela by having too much of their economies tied to a crashing oil market?

Fuck them?

[Breccia]

Fed plans to hold rates basically at zero until 2022.

[Omega10]

Fed plans to hold rates basically at zero until 2022.

Since there is so much debt, zero is pretty much a ceiling for how high it can go. Any higher and a lot of companies stop being able to pay the interest charges.

[Zan15]

Fed plans to hold rates basically at zero until 2022.

There's a tweet for that....or several
https://www.cnbc.com/2016/09/12/trum...e-ashamed.html

GOP presidential nominee Donald Trump told CNBC on Monday the Federal Reserve is doing what President Barack Obama wants by keeping interest rates low.

Fed Chair Janet Yellen and central bank policymakers are very political, and Yellen should be “ashamed” of what she’s doing to the country, Trump said, adding the Fed is not even close to being independent.

By keeping interest rates low, the Fed has created a “false stock market,” Trump argued in a wide-ranging interview in which he also talked about Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton’s health problems.


Trump said rates are being kept lower to bolster Obama’s legacy. “Any increase at all will be a very, very small increase because they want to keep the market up so Obama goes out and let the new guy ... raise interest rates ... and watch what happens in the stock market.”

Doubting whether rates would change while Obama remains in office, Trump said: ”[Obama] wants to go out. He wants to play golf for the rest of this life. And he doesn’t care what’s going to happen after January.”

American savers are the worst hit by the Fed’s easy monetary policies, Trump said. “The ones who did it right — they saved their money [and] they cut down on their mortgages, ... and now they’re practically getting zero interest on the money.”

[kaelleria]

Welp...

Another 1.5m new unemployment claims.
Futures are over 1000 as the market realizes we're going to actually have a second wave.

[Thepersona]

Welp...

Another 1.5m new unemployment claims.
Futures are over 1000 as the market realizes we're going to actually have a second wave.

What, reality crashed again with the stupidity of market especulation?

[Rasulis]

Guess as it turns out robinhood traders are driving much of these mega movement stocks.
they have forums and a site dedicated to show where the herd is moving next.

they are organizing huge pump and dump actions.

crazy its like the penny stock craze of the 1990s all over again.

Chesepeak opened at 18....after closing at 68. sitting around 20-25 right now.

a lot of those "robinhood" folks lost their shirts

its almost like a pyramid scheme and only the people who got in at the start are making the money

Personally I would not consider what the retail traders are doing in Robinhood as investing. More speculation akin to gambling at Las Vegas. I took a quick look at the top stocks bought at Robinhood traders in May according to Robintrack. Many are headscratchers. Luckin Coffee? WTH! Nikola Corp? Its market cap now is higher than Ford or Fiat Chrysler despite not having sold a single electric car. Hertz is going bankrupt. Draftking lost 68M first quarter of 2020.

A lot of those investments, unless they get out at the right time, is going to cost their investors a lot of money. Many of those companies are not even going to have positive ledger well until late 2021. Maybe even 2022.

[Breccia]

Futures are over 1000 as the market realizes we're going to actually have a second wave.

Another rise in the market? Well I guess I can't ohhhhhhhhhh you meant down.

But those were just futures, The actual market--



--is actually worse.

Drop of 1300 puts us back in Jan 2018 territory. Thread's title is going to be accurate in a matter of minutes.

- - - Updated - - -

Also I swear I am not making this headline up:

The Dow is now on pace for its biggest one-day loss since March, dropping 1,300 points

Because that's Trump's words and actions on display. 1300 is the biggest drop since March.

As in, three months ago. 1300 would have been a major blow in 2019. Now it's "we've seen worse recently".

- - - Updated - - -

God dammit, there's that word "correction" again. At least it's partial.

Travel-centric stocks took a dive in midday trading Thursday, enough to knock the Dow Jones Transportation Average DJT, into correction territory, as concerns over a renewed increase in COVID-19 cases and weak economic outlook saps investors sentiment. The Dow transports dropped 5.7% with all 20 components losing ground, and has now tumbled 10.1% in three days, after closing Monday at a 3 1/2-month high. Many on Wall Street view declines of 10% or more from a significant peak as a correction.

[Rasulis]

Another rise in the market? Well I guess I can't ohhhhhhhhhh you meant down.

But those were just futures, The actual market--



--is actually worse.

Drop of 1300 puts us back in Jan 2018 territory. Thread's title is going to be accurate in a matter of minutes.

- - - Updated - - -

Also I swear I am not making this headline up:

The Dow is now on pace for its biggest one-day loss since March, dropping 1,300 points

Because that's Trump's words and actions on display. 1300 is the biggest drop since March.

As in, three months ago. 1300 would have been a major blow in 2019. Now it's "we've seen worse recently".

- - - Updated - - -

God dammit, there's that word "correction" again. At least it's partial.

Stick with tech. Invest and ignore for a couple of years. Even a decade. The way we like to invest.

DocuSign just partnered with Mortgage Automators to develop technology which will allow lenders to collect signatures from investors and borrowers remotely.

Facebook just introduced Facebook Shops ecommerce platform. This will be a massive revenue generator for Facebook.

Apple reported strong revenue of its internet service sector (iCloud, Apple Pay, App Store, etc.) which more than make up its iPhone losses. To put it into perspective, total size of Apple service sector is twice that of AWS and Netflix. It is a huge money making machine. Apple is preparing to shift to its own main processors in Mac computers, replacing Intel chips, which could lead to long-term sustained profit margin improvement. Apple 5G iPhone premiere in third quarter 2020 is highly anticipated. Not only in the US, but globally.

Etc.

[arandomuser]

i unironically want a depression


i dont care., i even own stocks and am glad they are tanking today, we can survive with less money,
dont know if we can survive the nutter with launch codes