Bull Market officially over!! Year heading negative.

[Thepersona]

Like I said, considering Dems are coming out and saying a payroll taxcut is likely DOA in the House, I don't expect that bounce to last. You'd think they would also know by now that Trump is a liar and says what is most convenient for him.

Or are they just desperate for any sort of good news right now? I'm assuming the latter right now.

As i say before, the stock market (brokers/investors) are as skittish as raccoons. Good neews (or the prospect of good news) move them toward buying frenzy like unatended trash cans move said species to eating frenzy (more so when the good news are so squalid ATM).

The only good news here is that oil prices will go down, so we'll no longer have 1 dollar a liter of gas.

[Shadowferal]

And if news pops that Trump is quarantined all bets are off.

[Breccia]

How about the big oil companies?

Oil prices are already going back up. Not enough to erase the gap, of course.

[Thepersona]

And if news pops that Trump is quarantined all bets are off.

Dude, if the cancerous nurglite lesser daemon turns out to be sick with COVID-19, the markets will panic.

[jeezusisacasual]

At the very least Trump is doing something but i think we could debate how worthwhile this response will be.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Oil-Pric...d3o0KyVSrBwkz8

[Zan15]

Plenty of posts showing how far the indexes have dropped today. How about the big oil companies? Here goes - Chevron (-15.37%), Occidental (-52.01%), Apache (-53.86%), Marathon Oil (-46.81%), ExxonMobil (-12.22%), EOG Resources (-31.98%), ConocoPhillips (-24.87%), and Pioneer Natural Resource (-36.96%). The losses are reflected in the energy junk bond market which has crashed.

.

ah exactly what i was saying
those with more than extraction....exxon, chevron,conoco,bp.....all doing much better than those whom are not diversified. Not to mention the blood bath on the ones who within the last decade went on a buying spree of eachother.

scary as i read the 4q and full year on these companies. the amount of fire sales they have been doing on their assets and the sheer double digit drop in capital expenditures point to even harsher times down the road for the oil industry.

[Breccia]

At the very least Trump is doing something but i think we could debate how worthwhile this response will be.

That's the plan Grassley's been going on about. Targeted tax relief, most likely. They're going to have to hurry. The House Democrats are going to announce their own approach sooner than later, and quite frankly, "let's spend taxpayer money to help the oil companies" has the same mass market appeal as "let's make sure the Swarm, the Combine, the Twilight Hammer, the Scorched, and Maliwan have better guns". It's not that this situation won't be hard for them, but it's also not like they have had it hard up to this point. They made record profits, Trump handed them lower regulations, more places to drill, and even ordered a pipeline that only leaked a little. Also, he's been fighting renewable energy every inch of the way. They've had things just handed to them over and over. Now, suddenly, there's a drop of unknown length and severity, and he's planning how many billions to give them literally the same day.

Still makes more sense than a payroll tax cut.

[Zan15]

At the very least Trump is doing something but i think we could debate how worthwhile this response will be.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Oil-Pric...d3o0KyVSrBwkz8

so basically.... bank bailouts...no wait...auto bailouts....no wait...wait i got this....

OIL COMPANY BAIL OUTS.


so wait obama/bush bailouts were bigly bad...but his are going to be bigly bestest ever???

man its gotta be killing him he has to do all the things Obama did and he railed against...i guess this is called winning?



so "consumers saving gas money" will be eaten up by consumers (tax payers) having to bail out corporations....again.

- - - Updated - - -

Like I said, considering Dems are coming out and saying a payroll taxcut is likely DOA in the House, I don't expect that bounce to last. You'd think they would also know by now that Trump is a liar and says what is most convenient for him.

Or are they just desperate for any sort of good news right now? I'm assuming the latter right now.

i'd rather see this than corporate bail outs of industries that could have been squirlying away capital to prepair for the oil crash everyone new would eventually hit in the next decade. instead they kept beefing up bailouts, using tax breaks to buy each other out, issuing huge debt for little return.....

but in reality consumers do not have a spending problem right now. More money will not fix this problem.


only way the house passes this, is if they also include govt sponserd sick time reimbursment and some protection for workers whom don't have sick time (who knows if it would even survive a SC challenge)

but republicans really don't want to admit govt mandated sick time is a good thing....

[Thepersona]

At the very least Trump is doing something but i think we could debate how worthwhile this response will be.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Oil-Pric...d3o0KyVSrBwkz8

How about this novel idea? why not invest in renewables right now?

[Zan15]

Well futures are up, but there's basically zero chance we'll get it all back. Futures raised up when various solutions were proposed, but none of them are actually materializing tomorrow.

the ever present Dead Cat's Bounce has proven itself for the last two weeks.

i expect till oil is fixed and something is passed in the house...the cat will keep bouncing as someone throws it off the building again and again

[Breccia]

so "consumers saving gas money" will be eaten up by consumers (tax payers) having to bail out corporations....again.

No matter what, this will be approached with taxpayer money. The question is who gets it.

Pelosi's approach sounds like it's intended to keep the health care providers and state/local governments funded, and by that keeping the average American from having to spend thousands for health care if they are at risk.

Grassley's approach is aimed at keeping the companies most affected from having to borrow money despite...um...the Fed making that trivial. Hmm. Just thought of that. But anyhow, at least doing that could be defended by saving jobs.

Trump's approach, the payroll tax cut, hands the average American what I said was $20 a week. This might slightly raise the GDP like when Obama did it with the specific intent to raise the GDP. What it won't do is pay for health care for someone who gets the coronavirus, or cover wages lost when they stay home. It's a stupid fucking idea and Pelosi is wiping her ass with it.

- - - Updated - - -

How about this novel idea? why not invest in renewables right now?

We're about one Trump term past that idea.

[Zan15]

How about this novel idea? why not invest in renewables right now?

funny this is the same man and party that lost their fucking mind because of a 500 million dollar bailout/investment in a renewables company.
now they want to "spend" 100s of billions on oil companies.....


..and there is no way republicans are going to make this bail out like the financial sector where the govt gets back most of the money and actually turns 140 billion dollar and climbing profit.
No fucking way..it will be a huge loss

[jeezusisacasual]

That's the plan Grassley's been going on about. Targeted tax relief, most likely. They're going to have to hurry. The House Democrats are going to announce their own approach sooner than later, and quite frankly, "let's spend taxpayer money to help the oil companies" has the same mass market appeal as "let's make sure the Swarm, the Combine, the Twilight Hammer, the Scorched, and Maliwan have better guns". It's not that this situation won't be hard for them, but it's also not like they have had it hard up to this point. They made record profits, Trump handed them lower regulations, more places to drill, and even ordered a pipeline that only leaked a little. Also, he's been fighting renewable energy every inch of the way. They've had things just handed to them over and over. Now, suddenly, there's a drop of unknown length and severity, and he's planning how many billions to give them literally the same day.

Still makes more sense than a payroll tax cut.

Subsidies should have been rolled over towards renewables around 2014 when the first larger scale oil problems were starting at perhaps a 2.5 to 4% transfer per year to avoid shocks.

- - - Updated - - -

so basically.... bank bailouts...no wait...auto bailouts....no wait...wait i got this....

OIL COMPANY BAIL OUTS.


so wait obama/bush bailouts were bigly bad...but his are going to be bigly bestest ever???

man its gotta be killing him he has to do all the things Obama did and he railed against...i guess this is called winning?



so "consumers saving gas money" will be eaten up by consumers (tax payers) having to bail out corporations....again.

- - - Updated - - -



i'd rather see this than corporate bail outs of industries that could have been squirlying away capital to prepair for the oil crash everyone new would eventually hit in the next decade. instead they kept beefing up bailouts, using tax breaks to buy each other out, issuing huge debt for little return.....

but in reality consumers do not have a spending problem right now. More money will not fix this problem.


only way the house passes this, is if they also include govt sponserd sick time reimbursment and some protection for workers whom don't have sick time (who knows if it would even survive a SC challenge)

but republicans really don't want to admit govt mandated sick time is a good thing....

Will the Tea party come out in another occupy moment or will they just keep on enjoying the drops of piss on their head from their betters?

[Zan15]

Grassley's approach is aimed at keeping the companies most affected from having to borrow money despite...um...the Fed making that trivial. Hmm. Just thought of that. But anyhow, at least doing that could be defended by saving jobs.

well oil companies were never going to get anywhere near those sweet rates banks get. they are almost all in junk territory and will be worse after yesterday.

only way to fix this is bypass the banks, just like they did with auto. but with so many bankers and wallstreet hood rats on trumps team i can't see them cutting out all that profit for them.

[jeezusisacasual]

How about this novel idea? why not invest in renewables right now?

It will take time and not to further shock the overall economy. I mentioned in a earlier post about why you move subsides and the like over slowly to avoid a crash while still ruining people who rely on that work its akin to trying to nudge them in a newer direction like coal miners etc. Dying industries should not be propped up regardless of what time honored tradition, this is why i was so upset that Ford was allowed to continue.

[Zan15]

And if news pops that Trump is quarantined all bets are off.

i know the markets will be at least 4000 points higher from......wait....never mind i will get reported and punished again for making a joke....

[jeezusisacasual]

well oil companies were never going to get anywhere near those sweet rates banks get. they are almost all in junk territory and will be worse after yesterday.

only way to fix this is bypass the banks, just like they did with auto. but with so many bankers and wallstreet hood rats on trumps team i can't see them cutting out all that profit for them.

That wont happen because of who has his ear who gets his hand. This is why i laugh when i see a facebook post from someone talking about draining the swamp, that man has put a water hose in the swamp you dipshits.

[Breccia]

Incidentally, quick question: what happened to the "this is under control, the Fake News media are allied with the Democrats to make this a political weapon (see also: Hannity this very evening), it's basically no deaths unlike the flu which I admitted a couple weeks ago I had no idea killed that many people, Trump's job is a glorified cheerleader, etc" that was this very weekend? One day later and it's "the government needs to spend billions upon billions to help". If this really wasn't a big deal, how could 24 hours suddenly change from "stop politicizing this" to "socialist bailout for oil companies or you hate America"?

It wasn't the death toll. That didn't jump. That leaves the oil thing, which is not corona-related and therefore would be another Trump lie if that was the trigger, or the stock market falling, which would raise even more questions since it fell plenty before today. So, Wall Street traders or oil company owners were worth Trump's protection, but the average American was not. Remember that come November.

[jeezusisacasual]

Now i am not a seer but i am more worried about the Oil pricing then anything else simply due to the cascading effect it can have on the overall market. For instance if those Sham i mean Shale corporations fail to repay that will destroy Bank stocks which will in turn hurt others ( i think we are in a credit bubble with most credit ratings being 1 to 2 steps above what they should be which is to say alot more should be joining the ranks of Ford ala Junk ).

https://www.ft.com/content/15687d3c-...d-df28cc3c6a68

[Thepersona]

Incidentally, quick question: what happened to the "this is under control, the Fake News media are allied with the Democrats to make this a political weapon (see also: Hannity this very evening), it's basically no deaths unlike the flu which I admitted a couple weeks ago I had no idea killed that many people, Trump's job is a glorified cheerleader, etc" that was this very weekend? One day later and it's "the government needs to spend billions upon billions to help". If this really wasn't a big deal, how could 24 hours suddenly change from "stop politicizing this" to "socialist bailout for oil companies or you hate America"?

It wasn't the death toll. That didn't jump. That leaves the oil thing, which is not corona-related and therefore would be another Trump lie if that was the trigger, or the stock market falling, which would raise even more questions since it fell plenty before today. So, Wall Street traders or oil company owners were worth Trump's protection, but the average American was not. Remember that come November.

Trump lives and dies by the DOW. That's his only "good" metric (and i put it in that terms because it's nowhere near as good as Obama's). If the DOW tanks (and it's tanking right now, even if tomorrow it gains back 1000 points) and the economy plunges, he can kiss his re-election goodbye, and brace for a life in trial/jail.