Page 10 of 18 FirstFirst ...
8
9
10
11
12
... LastLast
  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    It would be easier to take this seriously if it wasn't for this.

    Content designers have nothing to do with class balance so assuming that one has to do with the other doesn't make any sense.

    I like warfronts and expeditions well enough. I think they could be improved and will see what Blizzard does with them. Rewards need to be improved and they could use a little more in the way of depth. The AI bit is interesting and has implications for the future. As they are both brand new systems for the expansion it is probably to be expected that they will need iteration and adjustment.

    I would like Blizzard to take more chances, play it less safe, and go harder on new systems. Go big and there's an opportunity for a big win (or alternately a big loss). That is not their way but they sell the game short by introducing systems that are perhaps two-thirds baked with the secure knowledge that they can fix them later. If they went bigger they might not have to fix anything.
    I disagree. Warfrontd are already too rewarding. They need to be nerfed to 335 gear because it's literally afk content with no possible way to lose. All they do is make you skip mythic dungeons which shouldn't happen.

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by Aphrel View Post
    It happend with wod for som reason. zones there, aswell as in legion and bfa are conisderably less bright and less colorfull than mop and earlier expansions.
    Not really. The Draenor zones are still the most colourful ones they have made, ever. Val'sharah still had that oldschool look with tons of colours, as did Mac'Aree. The rest of the zones looked "bland" because of where they are located, not because they changed the art direction (they didn't). In BFA you have Zuldazar with a huge fucking golden city and a lush vibrant jungle. Stormsong Valley also looks extremely good.

    If you wanna go back and nitpick at earlier expansion, a lot of the zones lacked that "super colourful WoW style aswell". In MoP Jade Forest, Valley of 4 Wins and pre-Sha Valley of Eternal Blossoms had them, but all the other zones looked extremely depressing/bland/grey. WotLK was arguably the worst offender, where every single zone looked bland/boring/brown. Every zone looked cold (which makes sense since it's Northrend), but it did not really have the trademark WoW look at all.
    They're (short for They are) describes a group of people. "They're/They are a nice bunch of guys." Their indicates that something belongs/is related to a group of people. "Their car was all out of fuel." There refers to a location. "Let's set up camp over there." There is also no such thing as "could/should OF". The correct way is: Could/should'VE, or could/should HAVE.
    Holyfury armory

  3. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by Artelia View Post
    Raids? Right now people do more warfronts than your precious raids. Raids are old boring content that majority of people ignore completly. Make Islands more rewarding and people will love it too.

    If Blizzard need stop something it's listening raiders.

    Holy shit this is everything wrong with the world summed up in one post.

  4. #184
    Fluffy Kitten MoanaLisa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Tralfamadore
    Posts
    29,791
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenJesus View Post
    I disagree. Warfrontd are already too rewarding. They need to be nerfed to 335 gear because it's literally afk content with no possible way to lose. All they do is make you skip mythic dungeons which shouldn't happen.
    I don't AFK through them. They're also something to do if my guild isn't around. Not interested in pugging mythics so happy enough to skip them if that's what it takes. I can run mythics with my guild and skip all of that.
    “We live in a moment where everything immediately seems to default to outrage. There’s a kind of M.O. of either it’s exactly how I see it, or you’re my enemy.”

  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    when will people accept that extremly huge chunk of playerbase never ever cared about them in first place .

    huge chunk of playerbase love the direction wow is taking

    take a notice that in WoD most prominent argument was not "we dont have enough dungeons , we dont have enough legendaries or tier bonuses suck" only "there is no world content to do"

    warfronts / islands/ wq are exackly this key elements that WoD missed .
    Citation needed for ALL of that.

    Regardless:

    "We don't have enough dungeons" should be answered with more dungeons, not the removal of other features.
    "We don't have enough Legendaries" should be answered with more and better Legendaries, not scrapping of the entire system.
    "Tier bonuses suck" means people want better, more balanced tier bonuses that make sense, not complete replacement of tier bonuses with a WORSE system that requires you to re-grind your set every time you get a new piece of gear.
    "There is no world content to do" is still a problem. Adding more instanced content doesn't address that at all!

    Nothing you've just said makes any sense. You're basically just white-knighting blizzard at this point.
    Last edited by SirCowdog; 2018-11-22 at 01:02 AM.

  6. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by Cæli View Post
    What I find the most worrisome is the apparent change of direction in artstyle. The art, the music is different. Compare a screenshot with wow vanilla and a new warfront, you'll see. Colors have less depth, less vibrant, it's closer to paint style software that you can see on artstation, different than before.

    I'm not saying that vanilla is technically superior, I'm saying that the art and essence is more and more different as time pass. This can indeed undo world of warcraft while the majority isn't even noticing.

    Gameplay as we know already changed a lot, probably to scale to the changing market and demographics.

    Remove gameplay and art from a legendary game, you're getting a terrible waste yes.
    I think it depends on the expansion theme. BFA is a tad darker and gloomier than other expacs, hence the color palette won't be as vibrant? Just my thinking.
    The hunter hoe with the least beloe.

  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by zantheus1993 View Post
    I like the features....fuck the systems like azerite
    Seriously the Azerite system failures could've all be avoided if everything was baked into the necklace like legion artifacts and we just had normal drops for head, shoulders, chest. It's so glaringly obvious I don't know how thick Blizzard could possibly be to not see this

  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by Th3Scourge View Post
    Seriously the Azerite system failures could've all be avoided if everything was baked into the necklace like legion artifacts and we just had normal drops for head, shoulders, chest. It's so glaringly obvious I don't know how thick Blizzard could possibly be to not see this
    So technically it is being speculated that blizz is going to do that to the necklace

    My problem with azerite is the entire system
    Locking gear pieces making us grind AP to unlock the same trait but on a higher ilvl version of the same piece.
    The grind is pointless compared to legion where literally everything gave you AP so you always had justification for any playstyle.
    AP unlock levels scaling if you have a lot before you get the drop.
    Limited ways to attain it that were never clear.
    Pointless beyond 29 I think
    Compared to legion it's a lite version and the system was never going to work

  9. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by Kayytee View Post
    Its staggering the amount of resources blizzard is devoting to aspects of this expansion that nobody cares about.
    Warfronts, isle expos, azerite. Take warfronts and isle expos out of the game and nobody will notice. Take azerite out and people will be happy.

    Its insane that so many resources are being wasted on ideas which are clearly failures. Instead of developers focusing on actual class balance, they're focusing on adding new azerite traits. Instead of getting more/more instersting/more frequent dungeon and raid encounters, we're getting fucking warfronts and isle expos.

    I get that some experimentation and trial is needed to discover new and interesting concepts. The problem here is that instead of treading lightly and gauging what works and what doesn't, bliz loaded up all of its resources into a train which has already derailed. And instead of accepting this they are doubling down, adding to the train more of what made it derail in the first place. That being boring, one dimensional grind-fests, existing only to fuel a horribly designed azerite system which the game would be better without.

    BFA is like a product from a sh!tty late night infomercial. Its got all these supposed features; Azerite! Warfronts! Island expeditions! Super absorbent! But the reality is that its cheap garbage.

    The problem though is that BFA isn't cheap garbage. Its expensive garbage. The amount of art and so called "design" resources that went into these failed concepts is staggering. Hell, we could have probably had another xpac by now.

    Get your shit together bliz.
    It's not surprising at all. Island expeditions have been a massive hit with the casual crowd, and guess who makes up the majority of the players.

  10. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by zantheus1993 View Post
    So technically it is being speculated that blizz is going to do that to the necklace

    My problem with azerite is the entire system
    Locking gear pieces making us grind AP to unlock the same trait but on a higher ilvl version of the same piece.
    The grind is pointless compared to legion where literally everything gave you AP so you always had justification for any playstyle.
    AP unlock levels scaling if you have a lot before you get the drop.
    Limited ways to attain it that were never clear.
    Pointless beyond 29 I think
    Compared to legion it's a lite version and the system was never going to work
    I agree with you 100% but if the design philosophy was the same as legion but concentrated on one item only (the necklace) then most of the problems with Azerite gear could be avoided.

  11. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by Cæli View Post
    What I find the most worrisome is the apparent change of direction in artstyle. The art, the music is different. Compare a screenshot with wow vanilla and a new warfront, you'll see. Colors have less depth, less vibrant, it's closer to paint style software that you can see on artstation, different than before.

    I'm not saying that vanilla is technically superior, I'm saying that the art and essence is more and more different as time pass. This can indeed undo world of warcraft while the majority isn't even noticing.

    Gameplay as we know already changed a lot, probably to scale to the changing market and demographics.

    Remove gameplay and art from a legendary game, you're getting a terrible waste yes.
    What? The art is the only redeeming feature at this point. It's beautifully done. It's all handpainted and clearly has so much passion and love put into it. It's the only thing I miss about this game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kpmk View Post
    It's not surprising at all. Island expeditions have been a massive hit with the casual crowd, and guess who makes up the majority of the players.
    Massive hit? Really? source?

  12. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by XDurionX View Post
    Those "vibrant colors" are the main reason vanilla looks like shit. It's like they used a palette of 32 colors, there's nothing good looking about it. The technical limitations clearly show that the artists had no means of creating good looking assets. That has changed a lot.
    vibrant colors are excellent, what's not to like ? colors are beautiful! lots of depth.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by s_bushido View Post
    Then I guess it's a good thing that there's nothing realistic about the art style in BfA. The closest you get to "realism" in wow is the movie-quality cinematics. Which are a pretty stark contrast to those made with modified in-game assets.

    Vanilla had plenty of style. It just looks like garbage compared to the stuff they're putting out these days. I'm not going to put down the work of the people who did the art for Vanilla...they did the best with what they had. But come on... The art team is the backbone of this game, regardless of whatever you think about the decisions made by the game systems developers. And that hasn't changed in BfA.
    colors had more depth in earlier expansions, more flashy, maybe it was due to a technical reason, or not, well

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by melzas View Post
    Yeah very colourful zones like silithus (very full of color brown), Desolace (very full of color grey), Blasted Lands (very full of color orange), Tanaris (very full of color desert sand), Swamp of Sorrows (very full of color dark green).

    Yeah man, those one color zones were so fucking vibrant and artsy, omg we will never get anything on that level...
    well I love grey, grey skies, murky places and rainy gloomy places so it's also part of wow and it's great

  13. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    IEs are Diablo 3 rifts and greater rifts. Rifts were absolutely terrible in D3 and they are terrible in WoW too. Its designed to provide variety and replayability but the content is so easy and so on rails that it is mindless and boring.
    At least rifts have steady progression going for them. Islands are just a treadmill in front of a slot machine.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    .

    So it seems enough people are up for it....queuing for 5 mans...heroic, timewalking...whatever...definitely takes a lot longer
    That's because 5 mans require a specific comp: Tank/heal/3xDPS. WF and islands take whoever. WB are hit or miss, but otherwise also don't have any restrictions really.

    Context is important here.

  14. #194
    Quote Originally Posted by Th3Scourge View Post
    I agree with you 100% but if the design philosophy was the same as legion but concentrated on one item only (the necklace) then most of the problems with Azerite gear could be avoided.
    I agree but unless they fix acquisition it would still have that problem and the boredom aspect of the traits.
    I think we simply need 3 things
    1. Drops we work towards
    2. More interesting choices (traits that do more than increase a stat or add damage)
    3. Paragon trait levels (if they added another 5 ilvl bonus per 3 levels after the final unlock then farming it would be perfectly fine)

    We are getting the first 2 soon

  15. #195
    To infinity and beyond det's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    The forums
    Posts
    35,196
    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post


    That's because 5 mans require a specific comp: Tank/heal/3xDPS. WF and islands take whoever. WB are hit or miss, but otherwise also don't have any restrictions really.

    Context is important here.
    Sure - and if nobody would do those activities, we would see much longer queues...or...lets say like in Legion, towards the end of the x-pac my alts sometimes queued for a World Boss....and no group was happening.

    We are getting a second warzone in Darkshore...but who am I kidding...if I say it indicates that the feature seems to be something players participate in (I am deliberately being neutral here...I don't even use the words "...something that players like"), somebody will jump in and claim, Blizzard is too stupid and they don't listen...or such.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by zantheus1993 View Post
    1. Drops we work towards
    2. More interesting choices (traits that do more than increase a stat or add damage)
    3. Paragon trait levels (if they added another 5 ilvl bonus per 3 levels after the final unlock then farming it would be perfectly fine)
    The moment any of that happens, we are back to the threads where Blizzard "forces" everyone to grind endlessly because reasons....

  16. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by Cæli View Post
    What I find the most worrisome is the apparent change of direction in artstyle. The art, the music is different. Compare a screenshot with wow vanilla and a new warfront, you'll see. Colors have less depth, less vibrant, it's closer to paint style software that you can see on artstation, different than before.

    I'm not saying that vanilla is technically superior, I'm saying that the art and essence is more and more different as time pass. This can indeed undo world of warcraft while the majority isn't even noticing.

    Gameplay as we know already changed a lot, probably to scale to the changing market and demographics.

    Remove gameplay and art from a legendary game, you're getting a terrible waste yes.
    I remember them saying once that wow's art style involved watercolors and stuff like brush strokes.

    As for gameplay, its pretty funny you mention that. They changed the game, which has 12 million subscribers at one point, to more easily work with general audiences. What happened? The majority of the 12 million playing quit and the general audience ignored WoW anyway to play games like COD and League.

    Essentially they appealed to a demographic that was never going to play the game anyway, sold out a demographic they had a complete lock on, and destroyed their own game. GG

  17. #197
    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    The problem here is that we're asked to pay for it for 2+ years ($360 for 24 months if you do $15/month) and to live with it until they get it right, if they do. This isn't an issue for some things like the little game they had in... Cata? Fore larger features, though, it's a bigger issue.



    This is why you have internal builds. The problem isn't the AI it's that Expeditions are boring, repetitive content that isn't really challenging unless you try difficulty for which you're under geared. Honestly, I haven't noticed any really innovative tactics from the AI either but I've only done the entry level version, so... eh.

    The problem isn't that they try new things, it's that so many of these things have obvious flaws. At the same time... we call out warfronts for being repetitive but face it, so is LFR. Expeditions are boring but I doubt they took a lot to create. Once you have the island itself made and populated it's basically testing and refining mob AI which is a research project mostly.


    Frankly, BfA's issue is that so many of the new features are underwhelming. IF you just like to do the core stuff that's always in WoW (PvP, raids, 5 mans, questing) it's fine. It's that there's nothing NEW that make you want to do those things either at all or for very long.
    I agree with you here, but let's see in 8.1 if islands feel better, specially the new 2. as for warfronts, they were fun the first 2-3 times, then just a way to get a 370. The new one tho i'm interested because of the lore maybe i'll like it more maybe not, but i'm certainly hyped for the heroic warfronts although they won't come until 8.1.5 or 8.2 or 8.2.5 I don't remember what he said. Sometimes my guild is tired of raiding and a heroic warfront would be something fun to do as a raid group ^^

  18. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by Cæli View Post
    What I find the most worrisome is the apparent change of direction in artstyle. The art, the music is different. Compare a screenshot with wow vanilla and a new warfront, you'll see. Colors have less depth, less vibrant, it's closer to paint style software that you can see on artstation, different than before.

    I'm not saying that vanilla is technically superior, I'm saying that the art and essence is more and more different as time pass. This can indeed undo world of warcraft while the majority isn't even noticing.

    Gameplay as we know already changed a lot, probably to scale to the changing market and demographics.

    Remove gameplay and art from a legendary game, you're getting a terrible waste yes.
    Really? Art is what you're worried about most? No matter how good the game looks, if it feels like shit to play, there's a problem. Gameplay > everything else.

  19. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by Kayytee View Post
    Its staggering the amount of resources blizzard is devoting to aspects of this expansion that nobody cares about.
    How do you know that nobody cares about these aspects? I get that this content is not for all, but coming to the conclusion that "nobody" cares just seem like angry typing.

    I care. I raid, I do warfronts, I do Island Expeditions. While I agree that not all content is equally fun, I actually find the current content satifying, apart from Azerite..... I hate Azerite

    Z.

  20. #200
    Bloodsail Admiral Alkizon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Strasbourg
    Posts
    1,090

    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by zantheus1993 View Post
    I agree but unless they fix acquisition it would still have that problem and the boredom aspect of the traits.
    I think we simply need 3 things
    1. Drops we work towards
    2. More interesting choices (traits that do more than increase a stat or add damage)
    3. Paragon trait levels (if they added another 5 ilvl bonus per 3 levels after the final unlock then farming it would be perfectly fine)

    We are getting the first 2 soon
    I repeat for umpteenth time, it will be even worse and you have already passed this in Legion. What you need is normal classes design, and not pieces of your strategy scattered on all corners of Azeroth. Items are expansion progress, these are stats/characteristics, this is your "role" and main content separator, but “class stuff” is your character progress in game as a whole, this is your strategy and style of play (otherwise, you will get an imbalance and "mandatory" items, exceptions to super flexible systems that you'll never get from Blizzard).

    BIS items can't be avoided, especially in case of scant builds choice (since it became super-relevant, since trees were removed in specs' favor, which essentially don't change builds within its borders, but often only button/effect you use, with taking into account BfA: which are also not equivalent = with clear favorites), they can only be made inaccessible, as in case of w/tf, which only causes players frustration, because depriving sense of control over situation/customization/gameplay, which leads game to less interactivity/involvement/interaction and breaking basic progress/competition rules/principles for games of this genre. Prolonged and purposeful construction of such boundaries suggests that they're trying to limit players' imagination and capabilities to their own (if it were above average players' level, than it might won't be so bad, but judging by socio-demographic statistical trend, bar slowly, but clearly falls) and that their current slogan could sound something like this: "Player's choice freedom isn't game's advantage, but developer’s disadvantage".

    I understand that it's difficult to explain this to people who have never seen it, but... I don't know. Maybe I just lack words or am mistaken with their choice? I mean, everything is simple and easy to understand/lying on surface, why it's still so hard to get it?

    Do you know when this will really work? When everywhere there will be a “constantly active” scaling of everything with everything and there will be no classes at all, then it will somehow work without interfering anything, but (how it isn't strange) it’s still relatively far away (not so completely unattainable, but in near future; this is the way how it looks like in approximated game future according to some people I know; not that I believed it, looks disgusting even on paper, like murdered progress, but in principle). And it doesn't matter how many and what traites you'll adding, but still problems/conflicts/displeasure won't go anywhere.

    As for WF/IE - are just this. I'm not saying, that no one like it, but let's call things by their proper names.

    ps. *feels drained*
    Quote Originally Posted by Cæli View Post
    I'd say both are important! gameplay would hardly take place in a non compelling setup, interest would be lost rather fast, and passion would not shine, but caring about gameplay first is a solid strategy for a business
    Well, you can't always guess. Ie, my departure was directly related to art "change" (= character models) together with shameless mechanism for its implementation. They changed my characters (almost nothing to do with originals, except for the name) and took control of their display in the game from me (technically, they violated their own game rules). Neither I nor my friends could put up with it and we left. The end.

    I mean, yes, it can be outweighing factor. Problem here is precisely in change, because if art were such initially, I won't ever spend time on this "kindergarten" regardless of gameplay (as I did with Wildstar or Swtor - never touched these games, I had similar impressions from Overwatch and Fortnite (here also played additional factor that I'm not fan of FPSs, but if talking about art), not mine at all, full of excesses, repulsive). Many people just don't understand that quality and technology don't always go together and it's especially true regarding art. Technology doesn't improve it, just expands directions and tools. Although, I hope, they at least realize that opinions and impressions are relative, while reconstruction accuracy is determined value.
    Last edited by Alkizon; 2019-06-13 at 06:25 AM.
    __---=== IMHO(+cg) and MORE |"links-inside" ===---__

    __---=== PM me WHERE if I'm unnecessarily "notifying" you ===---__

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •