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  1. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    Bitcoin was never premined. If we want to talk about schemes you have to talk about the act of creating a coin and before releasing it having it premined. Are VCs also pyramid schemes and the companies they invest in?

    You can spend like .00000001 of a coin so the supply is not truly an issue you just use tiny fractions as the prices go up.
    The supply is an issue, because without an increase, then all you have is a huge flux that will inevitably lead to infinitely small amounts. Look how much it has changed in a few years...
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Multiculturalism hurts and kills. This happened before Trump and it would be happening without him. Racism arises from a multicultural society. If we were monocultural, people would not see issues through the lens of race.
    This is a poster saying that people are at fault for being the victims of terrorism, because they are not white.

  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by CryotriX View Post
    I had some from mining very early on, in 2012 maybe. Mining on a AMD HD 4850 512MB was... somewhat profitable. But not enough for me to continue bothering, so I just left it alone and completely forgot about it, only to be inundated with news about BTC going 18K USD in late 2017.

    Needless to say I cashed everything in December. I regretted for about 1-2 days when it grew yet another thousand $ over my price, but weeks later I knew i chose the right thing to do.

    The most interesting part was recovering all the BTC I had from the ancient purse format (a file on my old HDD, lol) and from my long ignored account on some "slushpool" website that I would mine for, and being able to use it for transactions. Good adventure.

    The big regret is obviously me thinking in 2012 that mining BTC was not worth it because it could have killed the already 3 yrs old videocard I had, and consumed electricity. If I knew it would reach 18K, I would have sold everything to buy GPUs and mined 24/7 lol.
    Or you could just have bought the coin outright for much less effort.
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  3. #163
    The Undying Doctor Amadeus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    Not all stocks have intrinsic value stop that right now.

    There are quite literally some biotech companies that have sold off their entire pipeline or ended production with no future plans that somehow still stay afloat with people saying to buy them because x may happen, meanwhile they have no pipeline, no product at all.

    The comparison isn't dumb it truly sounds like you don't know much about stocks nor the value of some companies versus others. Everything doesn't have an intrinsic value.
    In theory you are right in practice you are wrong TRUST is a value, nobody fucking Trusted Cryptocurrency who knew exactly why it didn't work and what it would take for it to be trusted

    Call it a dumb comparison all you want, but those holding actual currency, didn't just take a fucking nearly $15.000 per unit bath on these worthless digital coins.
    "Intellect alone is useless in a fight...you can't even break a rule, how can you be expected to break bone" Khan Singh

  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Bitcoin and similar concepts will never take off. One simple reason: Governments have the monopoly on currency. And they won't let any currency exist that is completely unregulated. They may not be able to do something about it for now, but if they could, they would come down hard on these illegal cryptocurrencies that are basically money laundering schemes.

    So, make all the assumptions you like and try to convince your fellow friends to buy into Bitcoin again, because... after all that is the only straw a man duped by a pyramid scheme has. But don't expect this to actually take off again. This plane has crashed for good. And good ridddance, too. Oh, it'll bounce up and down like any good volatilei commmodity will, but just like Myspace and Facebook... it's just a trend on the internet. And it has peaked.
    The economic argument for fiat currency like the dollar, as opposed to something like gold or bitcoin, is that governments can manage the money supply more effectively than can happen if you have something that grows in fits and starts like the supply of gold or bitcoin.

    The overall money supply is a function of how much is in circulation and also how much of it is lent out over and over again - if everyone keeps 10% of their money and lends out 90%, that increases the money supply by a factor of 10. When something like 2008 happens and everyone gets worried and starts pulling back and lending less, the money supply contracts massively - if everyone goes from lending out 90% of their cash to lending out 80%, the money supply falls in half (not to mention that the values of assets start to fall and that causes even more problems).

    The government can help fix that by flooding the market with liquidity by printing money and lending it out, thereby counteracting the massive contraction in supply and keeping everything running smoothly.

    If your monetary system is based on gold, you can't do that.

    The argument for gold, or bitcoin, is that the government cannot manipulate it, so if you have a government like Zimbabwe that's corrupt and going to print like mad, you prefer gold.

    Personally speaking, I believe in good government, and I want to live in a world where the government is effective enough to actually handle managing the money supply. I think that's the world we do live in, but the rich are gradually eroding it over time, so we'll see if it continues.
    Quote Originally Posted by Metallourlante View Post
    It's not supposed to be fun, we are not in 2009. It's supposed to be frustrating and keep you hooked longer.

  5. #165
    The Undying Doctor Amadeus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CryotriX View Post
    I had some from mining very early on, in 2012 maybe. Mining on a AMD HD 4850 512MB was... somewhat profitable. But not enough for me to continue bothering, so I just left it alone and completely forgot about it, only to be inundated with news about BTC going 18K USD in late 2017.

    Needless to say I cashed everything in December. I regretted for about 1-2 days when it grew yet another thousand $ over my price, but weeks later I knew i chose the right thing to do.

    The most interesting part was recovering all the BTC I had from the ancient purse format (a file on my old HDD, lol) and from my long ignored account on some "slushpool" website that I would mine for, and being able to use it for transactions. Good adventure.

    The big regret is obviously me thinking in 2012 that mining BTC was not worth it because it could have killed the already 3 yrs old videocard I had, and consumed electricity. If I knew it would reach 18K, I would have sold everything to buy GPUs and mined 24/7 lol.
    Yeah YOU are the reason bitcoin failed, I am not blaming you per say, I am outright saying that in every predictable way you were of one of the few even if you didn't for sure know understood the risk and did the smart thing and pulled out. You are likely one of the many fewer.

    I remembered when it hit 20k and then it dipped somewhere towards 16k, I knew then people were getting the hell out, some of those in the very very beginning might have held out and took the hit and maybe tried to prop it up IF they were kind of believers, which, I am guessing not a lot of those did.

    However when it dropped, it simply dropped, and I knew as many others, it was going to continue until those that knew the most, likely pulled the plug.


    I would chalk up your reasoning as being intelligence and instinct to even if you didn't know and were kind of fooling yourself 18k was a lot of money to gamble even on something even YOU couldn't be sure.

    Those that KNEW didn't touch it and ignored it.
    "Intellect alone is useless in a fight...you can't even break a rule, how can you be expected to break bone" Khan Singh

  6. #166
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    Not all stocks have intrinsic value stop that right now.

    There are quite literally some biotech companies that have sold off their entire pipeline or ended production with no future plans that somehow still stay afloat with people saying to buy them because x may happen, meanwhile they have no pipeline, no product at all.

    The comparison isn't dumb it truly sounds like you don't know much about stocks nor the value of some companies versus others. Everything doesn't have an intrinsic value.
    For x to happen, the bare minimum is research - even if no development - going on.


    And - to play your game even if we disagree on its intellectual value - what would be the equivalent of x happening with cryptocurrencies?
    Last edited by mmocabce60bc47; 2018-12-04 at 03:04 AM.

  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by Tonus View Post
    Personally speaking, I believe in good government, and I want to live in a world where the government is effective enough to actually handle managing the money supply. I think that's the world we do live in, but the rich are gradually eroding it over time, so we'll see if it continues.
    I don't see Bitcoin as a solution to corruption. But I understand the point you're making.
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  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by X Amadeus X View Post
    Yeah YOU are the reason bitcoin failed, I am not blaming you per say, I am outright saying that in every predictable way you were of one of the few even if you didn't for sure know understood the risk and did the smart thing and pulled out. You are likely one of the many fewer.

    I remembered when it hit 20k and then it dipped somewhere towards 16k, I knew then people were getting the hell out, some of those in the very very beginning might have held out and took the hit and maybe tried to prop it up IF they were kind of believers, which, I am guessing not a lot of those did.

    However when it dropped, it simply dropped, and I knew as many others, it was going to continue until those that knew the most, likely pulled the plug.


    I would chalk up your reasoning as being intelligence and instinct to even if you didn't know and were kind of fooling yourself 18k was a lot of money to gamble even on something even YOU couldn't be sure.

    Those that KNEW didn't touch it and ignored it.
    Bitcoin failed because it was a bubble, because it has absolutely no value. Bitcoin will hit 0 before it hits 20k again.

  9. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalera View Post
    Bitcoin failed because it was a bubble, because it has absolutely no value.
    It had whatever values was placed in it and for however long that lasted until confidence failed, that's it, other kinds of currency and markets CAN fail too, the difference is that there is more than one way and more than one thing they are tied to in order to prevent that from happening. But nothing is 100% guaranteed, the problem with this bullshit was that people tried to conflate it as exactly the same as say U.S currency.
    "Intellect alone is useless in a fight...you can't even break a rule, how can you be expected to break bone" Khan Singh

  10. #170
    The most hilarious thing is watching the people who are heavily invested into bitcoin try to tell you everythings fine. Their bodylanguage is always great, especially John Mcafee when he's interviewed about it while high on meth. Watch him as he tries to sell you bitcoin like the rest of them do because they're heavily invested themselves.

  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    But... Governments actually do. Like, it's in their constitutions and shit. You may disagree with it, but you're really in the minority here. See, I get it, anarchists don't like it, but Governments have all kinds of authority that give them monopolies. On currency, border, the monopoly on making rules that are enforced (we call this lawmaking). Please, go ahead and tell me you'd like to live in an anarchy... let's get it over with, because that's where your line of reasoning is heading.
    When, exactly, did I say anything about an anarchy? -Mmkay, moving on, I'm sure the rest of what you have to say will bring up some legitimate points, right? ..Right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    For reference: look up the banking charter act of 1844 for England. For the Euro, look at the EU treaties, Art. 3, Sec. 4: "4. The Union shall establish an economic and monetary union whose currency is the euro." That bit there? It doesn't say "One of its currencies" or "a currency" or "the official currency". It says "the currency." Singular. There's no alternative currency within the Eurozone (of which you can opt out, if you like).
    ..Whelp. I guess not! -Since you're here, citing the fact that the EU's default currency is the Euro, as proof that governments are the sole creators of currencies of all kinds, which is... ..Amusing? Yes, the Euro exists. I'm not about to try and deny that, or slap a [Citation needed] sticker on your post. Good job!

    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Wtf is your bank example about? I think you're mistaking money with currency. See, what the bank does is... handle money. What the Government does is handle the value of that money. Those are interlinked, but seriously... taking bank investments as an argument that the Government doesn't have the monopoly on printing coin (and determining the value of it and the interest rates connected) is really... please, educate me some more about this stuff with your freshman year high school knowledge.
    See, what that bank just did, in that re-loaning example is.. Create money. Which means that, you know.. The government doesn't have a monopoly on creating its own currency. Forget high school knowledge, friendo, I'm coming at you here with elementray school knowledge. Because one, plus the governments one, plus the bank's one..? That's not two.

    Also, also... Just wanna point this out here, but do you know who determines the value of, oh... Let's say the US dollar?

    ..I'll give you a hint: It isn't the US government. -Leave the answer in an angry comment down below!

    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    That some countries have badly regulated currencies is hardly an argument to introduce yet more unregulated currencies. I suggest you don't try to lecture people about currency when all you can do is... invent silly bank examples and ignore how a legal transaction works.
    And it's not an argument to introduce badly regulated currencies, you're right (Have a sticker)! It's me pointing out that you:
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Governments have the monopoly on currency. And they won't let any currency exist that is completely unregulated.
    Have no idea what you're talking about

    Okay, last part. Let's go!

    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Oh, yeah.. the reason why I asked about the volume of bitcoins: Basically, if you had been one of the first guys to start mining, you would have had an easier job at getting a bitcoin than if you're doing it now, that is verbatim what you're saying. How is this not a pyramid scheme again?
    I'm just going to be super lazy, and parrot the definition of a pyramid scheme at'cha here:

    "A pyramid scheme (commonly known as pyramid scams) is a business model that recruits members via a promise of payments or services for enrolling others into the scheme, rather than supplying investments or sale of products or services."

    (Okay, I lied, I also underlined and highlighted the important bits, so it's easy to understand.)

  12. #172
    I still can't find a single person or video to properly explain to me what the fuck bitcoin is, as such, I continue investing in stocks and other things.

    To me bitcoin makes no sense, has no value and does nothing for no one. Not one single person can explain to me in a few sentences which don't make you want to ask 100 more questions, why it is worth anything.

  13. #173
    The Undying Doctor Amadeus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VanishingAct View Post
    The most hilarious thing is watching the people who are heavily invested into bitcoin try to tell you everythings fine. Their bodylanguage is always great, especially John Mcafee when he's interviewed about it while high on meth. Watch him as he tries to sell you bitcoin like the rest of them do because they're heavily invested themselves.
    [video=youtube;f-/video]
    Yeah almost as bad as people who use body language as a way of confidently reading people.

    John Mcafee is out of his fucking mind, it's likely anything read from him is a false positive, he is insane, which is why he can't be taken seriously, the fact anybody ever puts a lick of confidence in anything he says at face value is another issue with people altogether.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kul Tiras View Post
    I still can't find a single person or video to properly explain to me what the fuck bitcoin is, as such, I continue investing in stocks and other things.

    To me bitcoin makes no sense, has no value and does nothing for no one. Not one single person can explain to me in a few sentences which don't make you want to ask 100 more questions, why it is worth anything.
    Yeah and you aren't going to because most of the people duped into this bullshit don't know what the fuck it is. They have just been told and repeat it and get angry when they run out of script they remembered.

    Everybody who KNEW could explain it, however those who BELIEVED in it would always try to reexplain it or say the same things a different way to confuse anybody who could learn that it was a bunch of Bullshit.
    "Intellect alone is useless in a fight...you can't even break a rule, how can you be expected to break bone" Khan Singh

  14. #174
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Kul Tiras View Post
    To me bitcoin makes no sense, has no value and does nothing for no one. Not one single person can explain to me in a few sentences which don't make you want to ask 100 more questions, why it is worth anything.
    It's worth something, because a seller and a buyer agree on that value. That's the most basic market fundamental. You - or me - don't have to agree with that assessement.

  15. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by thevoicefromwithin View Post
    For x to happen, the bare minimum is research - even if no development - going on.


    And - to play your game even if we disagree on its intellectual value - what would be the equivalent of x happening with cryptocurrencies?
    The company stopped research and stopped their last lead drug prospect. They literally have no pipeline or research projects going on.

  16. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by thevoicefromwithin View Post
    It's worth something, because a seller and a buyer agree on that value. That's the most basic market fundamental. You - or me - don't have to agree with that assessement.
    Except in this case it's a made up value from all I can tell. It's like me giving you a pile of shit and telling you it's worth a lot because random reasons, and you believing me because you see other people buy shit like that, but none of you really knows why you're buying shit.

  17. #177
    You would be a fool to buy in right now, especially with the first of the year coming up. We haven't seen the bottom for BTC, I think it will go much, much lower.

    I think crypto still has a good future ahead, though perhaps not with the current generation of coins. Too many whales manipulating the market and mining needs to be made more energy efficient.

  18. #178
    The Undying Doctor Amadeus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CryotriX View Post
    Of course, but BTC was so low back then that it wasn't even worth my electricity costs, even less my actual real money. Of course, I was wrong, as time proved. No need for regrets as there's no returning the time back.


    Do keep in mind that I have invested very little in this. I don't think I mined for more than a few months. It was just like having money dropping from air, and I'm too cautious to risk it just for better margins of profit. Screw all that, I'll just take something, and I will fight greed off, this is my mentality, and it served me well over the years. If I was far richer, I would probably risk proportionally, but for my limited means, I will just take the less risky path even if it means I will never be truly rich.

    My story was meant as a curiosity, and how interesting things can happen to humans (rarely). At times, it helps to be a computer geek that loves to experiment and plays with new technologies, like BTC used to be back then. I am not saying BTC will not grow again, it actually might, as it gets harder and harder to mine even with ASICs and it reaches max (if the below remains true):

    "Eventually, the reward will decrease to zero, and the limit of 21 million bitcoins will be reached c. 2140; the record keeping will then be rewarded solely by transaction fees."

    I don't have the time or patience to wait until that, nor would I ever take the risk to assume it would grow sooner. Might as well just disappear. I know the price drop left a lot of people near suicidal, bitter and disappointed, but you really should put the blame on the actual whales that moved hundreds and hundreds of BTC and exploited the markets, not on small miners like I was, having a few BTC is absolutely an irrelevant amount compared to what these people have.
    Wrong wrong wrong wrong, those are GOOD instincts, seriously what you did was smart and a expression of your intelligence, instinct is a lack of knowledge. Truly not knowing, but putting things together based on clues and what little to no experience you had.

    No you pegged it right, hopefully you never become too confident without, good reasons. But these instincts you have are more valuable than anything if you harness it. Sometimes being able to tell yourself things, you don't want to know accepting that and making course corrections can be the hardest thing to do.


    I don't know you at all, but those are instincts I would trust you if you developed any skill and I can also account for your character and motives. You are no accident LOL


    You got the stuff, and your lifetime of experience I have no doubt if you make the choices you can be as reach and you feel you need to be.

    I won't give you advice. But I think you can become very valuable, so much that if you followed that, you could even charge a premium for your abilities

    If I Were you, I would also make sure I am 100% sure of what I want, I think that can be the hardest part.
    Last edited by Doctor Amadeus; 2018-12-04 at 04:09 AM.
    "Intellect alone is useless in a fight...you can't even break a rule, how can you be expected to break bone" Khan Singh

  19. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    I don't see Bitcoin as a solution to corruption. But I understand the point you're making.
    It's a solution to government corruption... if the government proves it is incapable of handling their own money supply, something like bitcoin or gold tends to be the substitute because it's relatively stable. Doesn't work great when there's a liquidity crunch though.

    There have been a few companies who've pegged their currency to the dollar for the same reason - government can't handle having control over the money supply.
    Quote Originally Posted by Metallourlante View Post
    It's not supposed to be fun, we are not in 2009. It's supposed to be frustrating and keep you hooked longer.

  20. #180
    So many young people in this thread who have been "watching" crypto for 1 maybe 2 years total and are convinced bitcoin is dead just makes me laugh too hard. At least look at the 2010-2016 charts/graphs (ignore 2017-2018 since you're convinced the past was a straight boring line that had no activity until 2017 because you are wrong).

    I think a lot of people think to themselves they can't mine bitcoin directly (without an ASIC) & its too risky to invest right now, so the only thing left to do is HATE it which is silly. There were a LOT of people who hated the idea of the internet and websites in the early 1990s, and how even if they went to the library they couldn't get books to figure out how DOS or Windows 3.1 worked, especially in the early 90's. Sure they thought maybe the internet past the 90's might be slightly better but the thought of your neighbors, grocery stores, banks & companies down your street each having their own websites someday felt like a joke at the time. It's all about perspective.

    Does every man woman & child have a drone flying around? Do we have Pizza deliveries being flown by AI controlled flying drones over our houses every second of every day? No. Nobody can predict what the future will hold and that includes the form of wealth or value of money.

    Coindesk had an article which was a great read yesterday called "Crypto Winter Is Here and We Only Have Ourselves to Blame" which made points about how people were just desperate to get rich in 2017 no matter what the coin. And even today, people are completely missing the point about how much crypto could change the future & the future of technology or how it cant be counterfeit and are instead focusing 100% on the value vs the US dollar short term constantly which is just silly.

    Remember Bitcoin is not a pyramid scheme but USDT or TETHER is in my opinion & all year the crypto universe is mostly backed by that and not real money and it will never be safe to enter with most money traffic is using that. Just go to coinmarketcap & click on bitcoin & the "markets" tab and look for yourself at the VOLUME of money. Way over 80-90% of the global money traffic is USDT which are I Owe You's (IOU) from the Bitfinex collapse in the past. Tether are stalling collapses and pumping and dumping everything but in the years prior to 2017 it was all pure money making it go 1000% higher some years and some years going back down.

    People have to realize if Bitcoin was worth $500k US someday, then the ability to make it fluxuate at all would require trillions of dollars of investing which would be too risky for any company or single country down the line. Also, what do you think the value of nation backed printed cash will be when people start making better printers & 3D printers which can print magnetic ink on cloth? Do you really think people won't be able to print paper money in 2030s? 2040s?
    Last edited by iodsnips; 2018-12-04 at 10:14 AM.

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