Bitcoin is imploding — here’s where bitcoin bulls and bears see it headed from here

[Doctor Amadeus]

Not all stocks have intrinsic value stop that right now.

There are quite literally some biotech companies that have sold off their entire pipeline or ended production with no future plans that somehow still stay afloat with people saying to buy them because x may happen, meanwhile they have no pipeline, no product at all.

The comparison isn't dumb it truly sounds like you don't know much about stocks nor the value of some companies versus others. Everything doesn't have an intrinsic value.

In theory you are right in practice you are wrong TRUST is a value, nobody fucking Trusted Cryptocurrency who knew exactly why it didn't work and what it would take for it to be trusted

Call it a dumb comparison all you want, but those holding actual currency, didn't just take a fucking nearly $15.000 per unit bath on these worthless digital coins.

[Doctor Amadeus]

I had some from mining very early on, in 2012 maybe. Mining on a AMD HD 4850 512MB was... somewhat profitable. But not enough for me to continue bothering, so I just left it alone and completely forgot about it, only to be inundated with news about BTC going 18K USD in late 2017.

Needless to say I cashed everything in December. I regretted for about 1-2 days when it grew yet another thousand $ over my price, but weeks later I knew i chose the right thing to do.

The most interesting part was recovering all the BTC I had from the ancient purse format (a file on my old HDD, lol) and from my long ignored account on some "slushpool" website that I would mine for, and being able to use it for transactions. Good adventure.

The big regret is obviously me thinking in 2012 that mining BTC was not worth it because it could have killed the already 3 yrs old videocard I had, and consumed electricity. If I knew it would reach 18K, I would have sold everything to buy GPUs and mined 24/7 lol.

Yeah YOU are the reason bitcoin failed, I am not blaming you per say, I am outright saying that in every predictable way you were of one of the few even if you didn't for sure know understood the risk and did the smart thing and pulled out. You are likely one of the many fewer.

I remembered when it hit 20k and then it dipped somewhere towards 16k, I knew then people were getting the hell out, some of those in the very very beginning might have held out and took the hit and maybe tried to prop it up IF they were kind of believers, which, I am guessing not a lot of those did.

However when it dropped, it simply dropped, and I knew as many others, it was going to continue until those that knew the most, likely pulled the plug.


I would chalk up your reasoning as being intelligence and instinct to even if you didn't know and were kind of fooling yourself 18k was a lot of money to gamble even on something even YOU couldn't be sure.

Those that KNEW didn't touch it and ignored it.

[Deleted]

Not all stocks have intrinsic value stop that right now.

There are quite literally some biotech companies that have sold off their entire pipeline or ended production with no future plans that somehow still stay afloat with people saying to buy them because x may happen, meanwhile they have no pipeline, no product at all.

The comparison isn't dumb it truly sounds like you don't know much about stocks nor the value of some companies versus others. Everything doesn't have an intrinsic value.

For x to happen, the bare minimum is research - even if no development - going on.


And - to play your game even if we disagree on its intellectual value - what would be the equivalent of x happening with cryptocurrencies?

[Slant]

Personally speaking, I believe in good government, and I want to live in a world where the government is effective enough to actually handle managing the money supply. I think that's the world we do live in, but the rich are gradually eroding it over time, so we'll see if it continues.

I don't see Bitcoin as a solution to corruption. But I understand the point you're making.

[Nalera]

Yeah YOU are the reason bitcoin failed, I am not blaming you per say, I am outright saying that in every predictable way you were of one of the few even if you didn't for sure know understood the risk and did the smart thing and pulled out. You are likely one of the many fewer.

I remembered when it hit 20k and then it dipped somewhere towards 16k, I knew then people were getting the hell out, some of those in the very very beginning might have held out and took the hit and maybe tried to prop it up IF they were kind of believers, which, I am guessing not a lot of those did.

However when it dropped, it simply dropped, and I knew as many others, it was going to continue until those that knew the most, likely pulled the plug.


I would chalk up your reasoning as being intelligence and instinct to even if you didn't know and were kind of fooling yourself 18k was a lot of money to gamble even on something even YOU couldn't be sure.

Those that KNEW didn't touch it and ignored it.

Bitcoin failed because it was a bubble, because it has absolutely no value. Bitcoin will hit 0 before it hits 20k again.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Bitcoin failed because it was a bubble, because it has absolutely no value.

It had whatever values was placed in it and for however long that lasted until confidence failed, that's it, other kinds of currency and markets CAN fail too, the difference is that there is more than one way and more than one thing they are tied to in order to prevent that from happening. But nothing is 100% guaranteed, the problem with this bullshit was that people tried to conflate it as exactly the same as say U.S currency.

[VanishingAct]

The most hilarious thing is watching the people who are heavily invested into bitcoin try to tell you everythings fine. Their bodylanguage is always great, especially John Mcafee when he's interviewed about it while high on meth. Watch him as he tries to sell you bitcoin like the rest of them do because they're heavily invested themselves.

[SirKickBan]

But... Governments actually do. Like, it's in their constitutions and shit. You may disagree with it, but you're really in the minority here. See, I get it, anarchists don't like it, but Governments have all kinds of authority that give them monopolies. On currency, border, the monopoly on making rules that are enforced (we call this lawmaking). Please, go ahead and tell me you'd like to live in an anarchy... let's get it over with, because that's where your line of reasoning is heading.

When, exactly, did I say anything about an anarchy? -Mmkay, moving on, I'm sure the rest of what you have to say will bring up some legitimate points, right? ..Right?

For reference: look up the banking charter act of 1844 for England. For the Euro, look at the EU treaties, Art. 3, Sec. 4: "4. The Union shall establish an economic and monetary union whose currency is the euro." That bit there? It doesn't say "One of its currencies" or "a currency" or "the official currency". It says "the currency." Singular. There's no alternative currency within the Eurozone (of which you can opt out, if you like).

..Whelp. I guess not! -Since you're here, citing the fact that the EU's default currency is the Euro, as proof that governments are the sole creators of currencies of all kinds, which is... ..Amusing? Yes, the Euro exists. I'm not about to try and deny that, or slap a [Citation needed] sticker on your post. Good job!

Wtf is your bank example about? I think you're mistaking money with currency. See, what the bank does is... handle money. What the Government does is handle the value of that money. Those are interlinked, but seriously... taking bank investments as an argument that the Government doesn't have the monopoly on printing coin (and determining the value of it and the interest rates connected) is really... please, educate me some more about this stuff with your freshman year high school knowledge.

See, what that bank just did, in that re-loaning example is.. Create money. Which means that, you know.. The government doesn't have a monopoly on creating its own currency. Forget high school knowledge, friendo, I'm coming at you here with elementray school knowledge. Because one, plus the governments one, plus the bank's one..? That's not two.

Also, also... Just wanna point this out here, but do you know who determines the value of, oh... Let's say the US dollar?

..I'll give you a hint: It isn't the US government. -Leave the answer in an angry comment down below!

That some countries have badly regulated currencies is hardly an argument to introduce yet more unregulated currencies. I suggest you don't try to lecture people about currency when all you can do is... invent silly bank examples and ignore how a legal transaction works.

And it's not an argument to introduce badly regulated currencies, you're right (Have a sticker)! It's me pointing out that you:

Governments have the monopoly on currency. And they won't let any currency exist that is completely unregulated.

Have no idea what you're talking about

Okay, last part. Let's go!

Oh, yeah.. the reason why I asked about the volume of bitcoins: Basically, if you had been one of the first guys to start mining, you would have had an easier job at getting a bitcoin than if you're doing it now, that is verbatim what you're saying. How is this not a pyramid scheme again?

I'm just going to be super lazy, and parrot the definition of a pyramid scheme at'cha here:

"A pyramid scheme (commonly known as pyramid scams) is a business model that recruits members via a promise of payments or services for enrolling others into the scheme, rather than supplying investments or sale of products or services."

(Okay, I lied, I also underlined and highlighted the important bits, so it's easy to understand.)

[Kul Tiras]

I still can't find a single person or video to properly explain to me what the fuck bitcoin is, as such, I continue investing in stocks and other things.

To me bitcoin makes no sense, has no value and does nothing for no one. Not one single person can explain to me in a few sentences which don't make you want to ask 100 more questions, why it is worth anything.

[Doctor Amadeus]

The most hilarious thing is watching the people who are heavily invested into bitcoin try to tell you everythings fine. Their bodylanguage is always great, especially John Mcafee when he's interviewed about it while high on meth. Watch him as he tries to sell you bitcoin like the rest of them do because they're heavily invested themselves.
[video=youtube;f-/video]

Yeah almost as bad as people who use body language as a way of confidently reading people.

John Mcafee is out of his fucking mind, it's likely anything read from him is a false positive, he is insane, which is why he can't be taken seriously, the fact anybody ever puts a lick of confidence in anything he says at face value is another issue with people altogether.

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I still can't find a single person or video to properly explain to me what the fuck bitcoin is, as such, I continue investing in stocks and other things.

To me bitcoin makes no sense, has no value and does nothing for no one. Not one single person can explain to me in a few sentences which don't make you want to ask 100 more questions, why it is worth anything.

Yeah and you aren't going to because most of the people duped into this bullshit don't know what the fuck it is. They have just been told and repeat it and get angry when they run out of script they remembered.

Everybody who KNEW could explain it, however those who BELIEVED in it would always try to reexplain it or say the same things a different way to confuse anybody who could learn that it was a bunch of Bullshit.

[Deleted]

To me bitcoin makes no sense, has no value and does nothing for no one. Not one single person can explain to me in a few sentences which don't make you want to ask 100 more questions, why it is worth anything.

It's worth something, because a seller and a buyer agree on that value. That's the most basic market fundamental. You - or me - don't have to agree with that assessement.

[Themius]

For x to happen, the bare minimum is research - even if no development - going on.


And - to play your game even if we disagree on its intellectual value - what would be the equivalent of x happening with cryptocurrencies?

The company stopped research and stopped their last lead drug prospect. They literally have no pipeline or research projects going on.

[Kul Tiras]

It's worth something, because a seller and a buyer agree on that value. That's the most basic market fundamental. You - or me - don't have to agree with that assessement.

Except in this case it's a made up value from all I can tell. It's like me giving you a pile of shit and telling you it's worth a lot because random reasons, and you believing me because you see other people buy shit like that, but none of you really knows why you're buying shit.

[Laerrus]

You would be a fool to buy in right now, especially with the first of the year coming up. We haven't seen the bottom for BTC, I think it will go much, much lower.

I think crypto still has a good future ahead, though perhaps not with the current generation of coins. Too many whales manipulating the market and mining needs to be made more energy efficient.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Of course, but BTC was so low back then that it wasn't even worth my electricity costs, even less my actual real money. Of course, I was wrong, as time proved. No need for regrets as there's no returning the time back.


Do keep in mind that I have invested very little in this. I don't think I mined for more than a few months. It was just like having money dropping from air, and I'm too cautious to risk it just for better margins of profit. Screw all that, I'll just take something, and I will fight greed off, this is my mentality, and it served me well over the years. If I was far richer, I would probably risk proportionally, but for my limited means, I will just take the less risky path even if it means I will never be truly rich.

My story was meant as a curiosity, and how interesting things can happen to humans (rarely). At times, it helps to be a computer geek that loves to experiment and plays with new technologies, like BTC used to be back then. I am not saying BTC will not grow again, it actually might, as it gets harder and harder to mine even with ASICs and it reaches max (if the below remains true):

"Eventually, the reward will decrease to zero, and the limit of 21 million bitcoins will be reached c. 2140; the record keeping will then be rewarded solely by transaction fees."

I don't have the time or patience to wait until that, nor would I ever take the risk to assume it would grow sooner. Might as well just disappear. I know the price drop left a lot of people near suicidal, bitter and disappointed, but you really should put the blame on the actual whales that moved hundreds and hundreds of BTC and exploited the markets, not on small miners like I was, having a few BTC is absolutely an irrelevant amount compared to what these people have.

Wrong wrong wrong wrong, those are GOOD instincts, seriously what you did was smart and a expression of your intelligence, instinct is a lack of knowledge. Truly not knowing, but putting things together based on clues and what little to no experience you had.

No you pegged it right, hopefully you never become too confident without, good reasons. But these instincts you have are more valuable than anything if you harness it. Sometimes being able to tell yourself things, you don't want to know accepting that and making course corrections can be the hardest thing to do.


I don't know you at all, but those are instincts I would trust you if you developed any skill and I can also account for your character and motives. You are no accident LOL


You got the stuff, and your lifetime of experience I have no doubt if you make the choices you can be as reach and you feel you need to be.

I won't give you advice. But I think you can become very valuable, so much that if you followed that, you could even charge a premium for your abilities

If I Were you, I would also make sure I am 100% sure of what I want, I think that can be the hardest part.

[iodsnips]

So many young people in this thread who have been "watching" crypto for 1 maybe 2 years total and are convinced bitcoin is dead just makes me laugh too hard. At least look at the 2010-2016 charts/graphs (ignore 2017-2018 since you're convinced the past was a straight boring line that had no activity until 2017 because you are wrong).

I think a lot of people think to themselves they can't mine bitcoin directly (without an ASIC) & its too risky to invest right now, so the only thing left to do is HATE it which is silly. There were a LOT of people who hated the idea of the internet and websites in the early 1990s, and how even if they went to the library they couldn't get books to figure out how DOS or Windows 3.1 worked, especially in the early 90's. Sure they thought maybe the internet past the 90's might be slightly better but the thought of your neighbors, grocery stores, banks & companies down your street each having their own websites someday felt like a joke at the time. It's all about perspective.

Does every man woman & child have a drone flying around? Do we have Pizza deliveries being flown by AI controlled flying drones over our houses every second of every day? No. Nobody can predict what the future will hold and that includes the form of wealth or value of money.

Coindesk had an article which was a great read yesterday called "Crypto Winter Is Here and We Only Have Ourselves to Blame" which made points about how people were just desperate to get rich in 2017 no matter what the coin. And even today, people are completely missing the point about how much crypto could change the future & the future of technology or how it cant be counterfeit and are instead focusing 100% on the value vs the US dollar short term constantly which is just silly.

Remember Bitcoin is not a pyramid scheme but USDT or TETHER is in my opinion & all year the crypto universe is mostly backed by that and not real money and it will never be safe to enter with most money traffic is using that. Just go to coinmarketcap & click on bitcoin & the "markets" tab and look for yourself at the VOLUME of money. Way over 80-90% of the global money traffic is USDT which are I Owe You's (IOU) from the Bitfinex collapse in the past. Tether are stalling collapses and pumping and dumping everything but in the years prior to 2017 it was all pure money making it go 1000% higher some years and some years going back down.

People have to realize if Bitcoin was worth $500k US someday, then the ability to make it fluxuate at all would require trillions of dollars of investing which would be too risky for any company or single country down the line. Also, what do you think the value of nation backed printed cash will be when people start making better printers & 3D printers which can print magnetic ink on cloth? Do you really think people won't be able to print paper money in 2030s? 2040s?

[Afrospinach]

I think a lot of people think to themselves they can't mine bitcoin directly (without an ASIC) & its too risky to invest right now,

Well if you don't have people mining you don't have transaction processing which means you don't have liquidity. Are you "old" enough to understand what that means for Bitcoin?

[iodsnips]

Top 3 reasons to NOT invest in Bitcoin (BTC) which are quite massive. I still think they could be worth over 50-100 thousand bucks 10-20 years from now but they could drop under 1000 bucks this next spring too. Either way there is a LOT of risk involved, but these are my top 3 reasons to STAY OUT of Bitcoin for now.

1. Tether (USDT). Real actual national currencies of people investing real money into crypto volumes are pretty low right now, so when Tether creates the sense that the value of bitcoin is about to be going back "to the moon" then real people invest real dollars & the tether manipulators pull the real money back out of the system. If 90% of the money being backed by Bitcoin were US Dollars, Japanese Yen, Korean Won's, then there would be REAL RISK backing the value. But TETHERS are basically like printed monopoly money from guys running it in Panama behind dozens of shell companies where they will either make bitcoin's price skyrocket high again before popping their own coin to scam everyone OR they will just exit the market entirely. If the dozen people running tether can manage to make over $2-4 billion in 1 year that is pretty insane in and of itself at this point.

2. Nobuaki Kobayashi - The MT. GOX Trustee will be releasing people's bitcoin & bitcoin cash tokens AFTER February 14th, 2019 but BEFORE March 31st, 2019 (before Q2 2019). So how many fresh coins which have not been touched in years will suddenly re-enter the crypto space? 137,891 Bitcoins (BTC) & 162,106 BitcoinCash (BCH) tokens!?! Google search this for a great monitor that shows the date timestamps for withdraws, since anyone can see when coins have been pulled out of a wallet thanks to the blockchain: MtGox Cold Wallet Monitor - CryptoGround

3. SATOSHI - the creator of bitcoin just went active 12/1/2018! Some say he might be dead, others say he was a fictional avatar of someone from the CIA who really made it, and I have even heard he was a real man but was captured by the CIA/FBI and never released, lol. Ultimately his email and admin access on the message boards are all we can really go by and he has been silent since 2014..... Up until December 1st, 2018! He posted the word "NOUR" and added a Brazilian as a friend on the message boards, with the word meaning "LIGHT" in arabic. Why could this be a concern you might ask? Satoshi Nakamoto the creator of Bitcoin has 1,148,800 BTC in his wallets! Proof the man or at least the person in control of his possessions are once again ACTIVE after 4 years of silence is a little alarming. With such a low amount of bitcoin volume, even if he tried to sell 5% of his BTC savings would crash the market down HARD at this point! This 3rd reason is mostly out of FEAR, where its likely nothing will happen or that the paper wallet addresses were destroyed or his hard drives have gone missing or destroyed from that long ago. But this is sort of like the Yellowstone Super-Volcano sleeping, it will probably be okay, maybe.


CONCLUSION: The larger the percentage of real money being traded for bitcoin, the more stable & less amount of risk there is in its listed "VALUE" against the US dollar. The higher the percentage of it being backed by Tether USDT's where they control almost the entire price of bitcoin at any given moment the less true that real value is which is where we are at today December 2018, especially if Tether popped or was removed one day instantly. The real money being traded daily is so low that even a small amount of new bitcoins being introduced could crash the price of bitcoin way lower then 3800. With 138,000 BTC + 162,000 BCH being re-introduced in February/March 2019 will surely hurt the supply & demand balance of bitcoin sooner rather then later. And if Satoshi the creator of bitcoin, or a hacker who has his possessions, or a secret government or a quantum computer breaking his private key releases any of his 1.1 million bitcoins then get ready for bitcoins under 1000 bucks again very quickly!

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Well if you don't have people mining you don't have transaction processing which means you don't have liquidity. Are you "old" enough to understand what that means for Bitcoin?

For Bitcoin to be fast enough to compete with VISA transaction wise it needs massive Lightning adoption or other big changes to take place, not more miners. So I have no idea what you are talking about. Even if some billionaire started making ASIC's and created 10x more hash computing power for mining then what exist today driving the difficulty through the roof there still wouldn't be anywhere near enough transaction speed to make Bitcoin viable for global processing. New technologies will change the code of Bitcoin over time, such as the Lightning network which could make transactions take seconds. But this whole process could still take years to develop.

People who bought a PC in 1993 and realized they couldn't stream video over their dialup internet modem might have thought the internet is stupid and will never take off. Technology and humanities needs change over time. All I ask is people keep a more open mind in the longer term (10+ years) and NOT just "what will bitcoin be worth in 2019". If our only question was "what will the internet be like next year in 1994" then our attitude towards computers would have still sucked.

[Deleted]

I still can't find a single person or video to properly explain to me what the fuck bitcoin is, as such, I continue investing in stocks and other things.

To me bitcoin makes no sense, has no value and does nothing for no one. Not one single person can explain to me in a few sentences which don't make you want to ask 100 more questions, why it is worth anything.

Did it occur to you that you might just be a moron who can't google stuff? There's a billion articles on the subject which go into painstaking detail.

If you mean "men in suits on television haven't given a summary for the benefit of the stupid" then yuh Jeb, you are correct, stay away from it.

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It's worth something, because a seller and a buyer agree on that value. That's the most basic market fundamental. You - or me - don't have to agree with that assessement.

You'd think that point would be obvious. But this simple point seems to elude those people who shout "scam" at bitcoin.

Fun experiment: google news stories from the early tech boom at the start of millenium and you'll see tons of people coming out with the stuff about amazon et al.

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It's a solution to government corruption... if the government proves it is incapable of handling their own money supply, something like bitcoin or gold tends to be the substitute because it's relatively stable. Doesn't work great when there's a liquidity crunch though.

There have been a few companies who've pegged their currency to the dollar for the same reason - government can't handle having control over the money supply.

This is pretty much the point of bitcoin and the reason why I'd hold some bitcoins unless it falls to 10 cents or something.

It seems fantastic for many westerners but currencies can be devalued by governments. If you were holding roubles in the nineties you got fucked. Fortunately this has not happened with western currencies (except to a limited extent in Cyprus) recently, but past performance is not always an indication of future performance.

[Kul Tiras]

Did it occur to you that you might just be a moron who can't google stuff? There's a billion articles on the subject which go into painstaking detail.

If you mean "men in suits on television haven't given a summary for the benefit of the stupid" then yuh Jeb, you are correct, stay away from it.

A worthy effort, but futile. Next time make the most out of alt accounts and get some fun shit in besides generic shit posting.