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  1. #241
    Quote Originally Posted by Necroxis View Post
    Except for, you know, the actual science behind it. Of which nothing has ever been shown that violent video games, rap music, and pornography have caused any increase in anything. Meanwhile children interacting with lootboxes for even as limited an amount of time as lootboxes have been a thing shows it already having a deleterious effect very similar to other kinds of gambling.

    Again it amazes me that people defend billion dollar corporations whose goal with lootboxes is to siphon any kind of cash left out of you under some deluded "Muh gubbment overreach" bullshit.
    I never debated psychological effects of loot boxes, only that you are still scapegoating bad parenting. A young child also has psychological effects if exposed to graphic or pornographic content, and the correct response was to put a rating/warning for consumers to be aware. It is still entirely on the parent(s) to raise their kid. If their kid has an addiction or trust issue, they need to resolve it.

    The only thing I'm defending is common sense. Claiming that loot boxes is the same as hitting a casino or buying a lottery ticket is the exact opposite of common sense. Can't just hate on a business move and say "Hey, let's try to outlaw/legislate against this", it would very well fall under government overreach.
    The wise wolf who's pride is her wisdom isn't so sharp as drunk.

  2. #242
    I never debated psychological effects of loot boxes, only that you are still scapegoating bad parenting. A young child also has psychological effects if exposed to graphic or pornographic content, and the correct response was to put a rating/warning for consumers to be aware. It is still entirely on the parent(s) to raise their kid. If their kid has an addiction or trust issue, they need to resolve it.
    No, a young child doesn't have anywhere close to the same psychological effects if exposed to graphic or pornographic content. I'm not scapegoating anything. Fuck this bullshit that there's nothing nobody else than the parent can do in order to mitigate the effects of a deleterious psychological practice that a private company is purposefully taking advantage of in order to hurt kids. You can do both at the same time.

    There's a reason that alcohol and cigarette commercials aren't played on children's networks and/or during hours when a network airs children's programming. And there are plenty of other examples of us doing basic things as a society so that we don't fuck up their psyche for money.

    You're wasting your time with some joke of a libertarian argument in order to defend companies that give no shits about you and practices that are actively ruining the gaming industry.

    And no, outlawing a corrupt practice of a private business actively harming their customers (Children or otherwise, since you seem butthurt that I'm against companies fucking over children for money for some reason) isn't government overreach by any stretch of the imagination. We already do it to plenty of other companies and industries.
    Last edited by Necroxis; 2018-11-24 at 09:48 AM.

  3. #243
    Deleted
    The longer things keep going the more I want a western gaming industry to crash

    The inclusion of lootboxes should automatically make a game 18 rated

  4. #244
    Quote Originally Posted by Meat Rubbing Specialist View Post
    Whilst I maintain that Lootboxes are trash. I will never see them as Gambling. Since they aren't.
    Yeah, they are much worse

  5. #245
    Quote Originally Posted by xcitng View Post
    Yeah, they are much worse
    If you think lootboxes are worse than actual gambling, you have serious issues.

  6. #246
    The Lightbringer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meat Rubbing Specialist View Post
    If you think lootboxes are worse than actual gambling, you have serious issues.
    It's no biggie, it all comes down to whether or not they share the formula with you on what's inside along with its odds. Who wants to toss money into a pit and buy into a dream? It's similar to lotto and should never be accessible to kids.
    If you knew the candle was fire then the meal was cooked a long time ago.

  7. #247
    Quote Originally Posted by Meat Rubbing Specialist View Post
    Whilst I maintain that Lootboxes are trash. I will never see them as Gambling. Since they aren't.
    Except they are.

    I work with recovering gambling addicts FOR A LIVING and I even showed them a loot box opening video....they outright said it was exactly like a slot machine, and if they were still active gamblers they would likely play a game...JUST TO BUY THESE BOXES and open them.

    They operate with the same machanics and tricks as a Slot Machine: Flashy Lights/Sounds when ya win, and they tempt you with free plays...just like a slot machine.

    Gambling DOES NOT require a monetary award. For someone who will be addicted, it's about that dopamine rush, and these boxes give the exact same rush and work on the same parts of the brain as pulling the lever on a slot machine.

    And I know this because I've legit had to help people who were addicted to loot boxes, and the treatment? Exactly the same as gambling...and it works. GA meetings, counseling, and having a family member (spouse, child, sibling, etc) set up controls on their accounts to block them from buying the boxes.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiwack View Post
    It's no biggie, it all comes down to whether or not they share the formula with you on what's inside along with its odds. Who wants to toss money into a pit and buy into a dream? It's similar to lotto and should never be accessible to kids.
    People with gambling problems don't care about the odds. You can show them that they have a 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000001% chance to win, and they will still put their money in and play. For them it is not about winning or loosing. It is about the action between. The unknown, and that dopamine rush they get when they get to SEE whether they win or lose, but not the win or loss itself.
    Last edited by Keile; 2018-11-24 at 01:09 PM.
    There is a thin line between not knowing and not caring, and I like to think that I walk that line every day.

  8. #248
    Quote Originally Posted by Keile View Post
    Except they are.
    Except they aren't. They are no more gambling than a Collectible Card Game.

  9. #249
    Quote Originally Posted by Meat Rubbing Specialist View Post
    Except they aren't. They are no more gambling than a Collectible Card Game.
    Except they are. Even the National Council on Compulsive Gambling recognizes them as such.
    Oh and TCG's are too.

    Gambling is simply trying to predict the outcome of a game of skill or chance (as defined by Gamblers Anonymous). So that little voice in your head? The one that goes: "I HOPE I GET X!"...that's the bet right there.

    I work in the industry and with the people. I know Gambling better than you do.
    Last edited by Keile; 2018-11-24 at 02:26 PM.
    There is a thin line between not knowing and not caring, and I like to think that I walk that line every day.

  10. #250
    Quote Originally Posted by Meat Rubbing Specialist View Post
    If you think lootboxes are worse than actual gambling, you have serious issues.
    Everyone on the internet loves to throw this gem around but nobody ever specifies just what issues I might have...

    Oh and you're wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keile View Post
    Except they are. Even the National Council on Compulsive Gambling recognizes them as such.
    Oh and TCG's are too.

    Gambling is simply trying to predict the outcome of a game of skill or chance (as defined by Gamblers Anonymous). So that little voice in your head? The one that goes: "I HOPE I GET X!"...that's the bet right there.

    I work in the industry and with the people. I know Gambling better than you do.
    They clearly got serious issues too, according to the Professor Meat Rubbing Specialist.
    Last edited by Justpassing; 2018-11-24 at 02:40 PM.
    They always told me I would miss my family... but I never miss from close range.

  11. #251
    Quote Originally Posted by Meat Rubbing Specialist View Post
    Except they aren't. They are no more gambling than a Collectible Card Game.
    collectible card games are not focus tested out the ass to have opening animations that do things like show a single frame of a legendary/max rarity item to force a false positive dopamine crash to indoctrinate habit forming users to get a "i was so close, just one more" mentality. Loot box animations are literally designed to brainwash and form an addiction in susceptible people. Thats a fact.
    http://theeorzeanfrontier.blogspot.co.uk/ Neckbeard rambling about this weeaboo trash

  12. #252
    Are Lootboxes gambling? for the most part yeah. I still don't have a problem with them so long as they are only cosmetic items. The only game I play that has loot boxes is Overwatch and I really don't have a problem with the lootboxes in that game. That being said I would not miss them if they went away. It just seems to me that alot of people who are against lootboxes are just using the whole "THINK OF THE CHILDREN" shit out of convenience.

  13. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sails View Post
    The inclusion of lootboxes should automatically make a game 18 rated
    ^ this.

    /10lootboxes
    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    i've said i'd like to have one of those bad dragon dildos shaped like a horse, because the shape is nicer than human.
    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    i was talking about horse cock again, told him to look at your sig.

  14. #254
    Quote Originally Posted by dope_danny View Post
    collectible card games are not focus tested out the ass to have opening animations that do things like show a single frame of a legendary/max rarity item to force a false positive dopamine crash to indoctrinate habit forming users to get a "i was so close, just one more" mentality. Loot box animations are literally designed to brainwash and form an addiction in susceptible people. Thats a fact.
    So if loot boxes openings are dull, it's all good? So many stretches people are trying for to tie some in-game rng to gambling.
    The wise wolf who's pride is her wisdom isn't so sharp as drunk.

  15. #255
    Quote Originally Posted by Meat Rubbing Specialist View Post
    Except they aren't. They are no more gambling than a Collectible Card Game.
    learn what dopamine is and save us all the hassle of your debates.
    Suri Cruise and Katie Holmes are SP's.

  16. #256
    Quote Originally Posted by kail View Post
    So if loot boxes openings are dull, it's all good? So many stretches people are trying for to tie some in-game rng to gambling.
    Crazier concept: You unlock things like skins by playing the game. Shocking idea i know. But of course the stretches addicts go to validate their addiction as somehow not 'paying money for random chances at on disc content' is nothing new, they are just having their rush/fix threatened and for some reason think championing for AAA lockboxes is the heroic stance to protect 'the little guy'.
    http://theeorzeanfrontier.blogspot.co.uk/ Neckbeard rambling about this weeaboo trash

  17. #257
    Quote Originally Posted by dope_danny View Post
    collectible card games are not focus tested out the ass to have opening animations that do things like show a single frame of a legendary/max rarity item to force a false positive dopamine crash to indoctrinate habit forming users to get a "i was so close, just one more" mentality. Loot box animations are literally designed to brainwash and form an addiction in susceptible people. Thats a fact.
    Both EA and Activision filed patents shortly before the Battlefront2 fiasco for more systems just like that. These were basically "scientific studies" done by PhD behavioral scientists etc. on Maximizing Engagement™ in order to increase Recurrent Spending™
    Stuff like logging what items your mouse cursor hovered over, intentionally matchmaking you with people that had the items they determined you wanted to make you more jealous, intentionally spawning the counter to your equipment to entice you into buying a new weapon, etc. were all examples they gave in the patent filing.

    They're not messing around. They have an entire book they slap down on the table in front of devs at the start of a product on monetization these days and devs have to build their games around those demands.

    Also in the case of CCGs: The physical cards are also an investment and can be bought, sold, or traded. Very very few video games actually let you trade or sell items, usually you're just stuck with them.
    Last edited by stellvia; 2018-11-24 at 07:41 PM.

  18. #258
    Quote Originally Posted by stellvia View Post
    Stuff like logging what items your mouse cursor hovered over, intentionally matchmaking you with people that had the items they determined you wanted to make you more jealous, intentionally spawning the counter to your equipment to entice you into buying a new weapon, etc. were all examples they gave in the patent filing.
    So video game companies are starting to do what ad and marketing companies have been doing for over a century. Welcome to business.

    Also in the case of CCGs: The physical cards are also an investment and can be bought, sold, or traded. Very very few video games actually let you trade or sell items, usually you're just stuck with them.
    I've never understood this line of argument. It actually strengthens the argument that you should be regulating CCG's, not loot boxes.

    If you're just stuck with what you get from loot boxes, then the comparison becomes:

    Loot boxes: You spend $X and get nothing. You have now lost $X.You can never "win".

    CCG's: You spend $X, and depending on your odds you will end up with a value between slightly above $0, and potentially way above $x. How is that different from a slot machine?

    Should we ban Cracker Jack boxes? Kinder Surprise Eggs? Eggshell machines from malls?

    What about promotions like https://news.mcdonalds.com/node/7966 or https://dewanddoritos.ca/

    If your answer is "Oh well you're getting the product you paid for, the prize is just a bonus", then welcome to how Blizzard got around loot boxes in China and how easy it will be for gaming companies just do the exact same thing elsewhere.

  19. #259
    Quote Originally Posted by Keile View Post
    Actually...


    If you buy the meal in hopes of getting a specific toy...you are gambling.
    So, you're comparing someone who already has a gambling addiction to a childs toy at mcdonalds. No, its not gambling. It doesn't matter how you spin it. Someone who has an addiction already may find some small pleasure in it, but when you can literally ask for the specific reward, its not gambling. If it was, you'd see people go bankrupt over it or get in trouble. Don't see governments even batting an eye at them.
    Quote Originally Posted by scorpious1109 View Post
    Why the hell would you wait till after you did this to confirm the mortality rate of such action?

  20. #260
    Quote Originally Posted by dope_danny View Post
    Crazier concept: You unlock things like skins by playing the game. Shocking idea i know. But of course the stretches addicts go to validate their addiction as somehow not 'paying money for random chances at on disc content' is nothing new, they are just having their rush/fix threatened and for some reason think championing for AAA lockboxes is the heroic stance to protect 'the little guy'.
    I am very much in favor of that system, yet even games like OW that have the rewards available in game is getting flak for loot boxes. Hell it's the most represented example I've been seeing when other complain on the concept.
    The wise wolf who's pride is her wisdom isn't so sharp as drunk.

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