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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Coombs View Post
    Lets say 1/8 people is susceptible to gambling addiction. What are the chances those 1/8 has gone to a Casino and been introduced to that feeling? Just like many people would get addicted to heroine but they aren't exposed. Now how many people have phones? The problem now is the reach not that the people who would become addicted do so anyway. We've basically handed out fun sized heroine sampler packs to every child with a phone.

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    Bullshit.
    Lotto tickets are plastered EVERYWHERE, it's a damn near right of passage to buy a lotto ticket the day you turn 18. And you're really trying to say that updating a game indefinitely, like OW or The Division, or any online game, costs so little(with server maintenance as well) that the developers can continue SOLELY on box sales? Yea, ok, and in your world pigs fly.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    If someone has the personality or mental incapacity to get addicted to gambling, banning lootboxes really isn't going to help them, because they'll just find it somewhere else. Like the other guy said, it really hasn't "quadrupled" over the last 2 years, its just that people are noticing it now. If gov't really wants to go after something, they should go after freemium mobile games that nickel and dime you to death, cosmetic loot boxes are nothing compared to that shit.
    That's a very poor reason not to legislate against something. By the same logic you can argue that most laws don't matter, because if someone really wants to do something harmful they can almost always find a way to do it somehow. There has to be a point at which you draw a line and decide something is harmful enough that a law would help to protect people from it. The more evidence that emerges against lootboxes, the more likely it is that governments are going to end up drawing that line somewhere.

    It's worth mentioning that a lot of mobile games have been in the spotlight in recent years too. Legislation has slowly been passed in a lot of places around the world to restrict the more predatory elements of the industry, but as with any modern laws dealing with new technology, it's a slow and ongoing process.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    Lotto tickets are plastered EVERYWHERE, it's a damn near right of passage to buy a lotto ticket the day you turn 18. And you're really trying to say that updating a game indefinitely, like OW or The Division, or any online game, costs so little(with server maintenance as well) that the developers can continue SOLELY on box sales? Yea, ok, and in your world pigs fly.
    You don't make a free to play game because you're a good person. Just like Blizzard isn't updating Overwatch consistently without expansions or passes or subscription because they are your friend. It is because the profits are astronomical. AAA games are made by companies all the time and the box sales more than justify the salaries and equipment it cost to produce the game. The defense of rising production costs is disingenuous.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Wondercrab View Post
    That's a very poor reason not to legislate against something. By the same logic you can argue that most laws don't matter, because if someone really wants to do something harmful they can almost always find a way to do it somehow. There has to be a point at which you draw a line and decide something is harmful enough that a law would help to protect people from it. The more evidence that emerges against lootboxes, the more likely it is that governments are going to end up drawing that line somewhere.

    It's worth mentioning that a lot of mobile games have been in the spotlight in recent years too. Legislation has slowly been passed in a lot of places around the world to restrict the more predatory elements of the industry, but as with any modern laws dealing with new technology, it's a slow and ongoing process.
    I'm always of the belief that if someone wants to kill themselves (cigs, sugar, etc) or gamble their money away, or anything similar, let them do it, it's not the gov't job to keep them from that, it's the gov't's job to make laws to punish people who do things that affect other people. Gamble all your money away till you're living in a cardboard box on the street? Fine. Steal money from someone cause you need to gamble? That's where the laws are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coombs View Post
    You don't make a free to play game because you're a good person. Just like Blizzard isn't updating Overwatch consistently without expansions or passes or subscription because they are your friend. It is because the profits are astronomical. AAA games are made by companies all the time and the box sales more than justify the salaries and equipment it cost to produce the game. The defense of rising production costs is disingenuous.
    Yes, they cover the cost of PRODUCING the game, but not maintaining it. Loot boxes is a small price to pay for new maps, heroes, updates, etc all being released.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    Yes, they cover the cost of PRODUCING the game, but not maintaining it. Loot boxes is a small price to pay for new maps, heroes, updates, etc all being released.
    Bullshit. A billion dollar corporation starting a new franchise isn't on the brink of not being able to pay the insignificant salaries of the Overwatch team. To continue to produce a few heroes, maps, and skins each year certainly costs money, but lootbox design is meant to maximize profits, not to keep the lights on.

  6. #26
    Let loot boxes be. If they make you butthurt, don't purchase them. Or better yet, don't buy the game that has them.

    That's the best way to tell companies loot boxes are unacceptable. Don't even look at their games.

    But I say who cares. Let these companies take advantage of and money from these gambling addicted idiots. They deserve it.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    Yes, they cover the cost of PRODUCING the game, but not maintaining it. Loot boxes is a small price to pay for new maps, heroes, updates, etc all being released.
    This is such a pile of shit.

    Multi-Billion dollar company's are not going bankrup to make you maps. You can get that shit without the gambling box's.
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  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Coombs View Post
    Bullshit. A billion dollar corporation starting a new franchise isn't on the brink of not being able to pay the insignificant salaries of the Overwatch team. To continue to produce a few heroes, maps, and skins each year certainly costs money, but lootbox design is meant to maximize profits, not to keep the lights on.
    Would rather have that then forced paid expansions like the Division or the like, since you don't need to participate if you don't want to, you get everything from playing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    This is such a pile of shit.

    Multi-Billion dollar company's are not going bankrup to make you maps. You can get that shit without the gambling box's.
    No, but they're not going to make them out of the kindness of their heart either, you don't become a multi-billion dollar company by giving shit away. Either you get Microtransactions or paid expansions, I'll take microtransactions that I don't need to pay for, like OW.

  9. #29
    I'm willing to bet more kids are addicted to Fortnite vbucks right now than loot boxes.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    I'm always of the belief that if someone wants to kill themselves (cigs, sugar, etc) or gamble their money away, or anything similar, let them do it, it's not the gov't job to keep them from that, it's the gov't's job to make laws to punish people who do things that affect other people. Gamble all your money away till you're living in a cardboard box on the street? Fine. Steal money from someone cause you need to gamble? That's where the laws are.
    I generally agree with the sentiment, but then you get into the ballpark of people with mental health issues (or children) and companies that target them in a predatory fashion. Malicious and exploitative things are still going on. You can take a "survival of the fittest" approach to it, but I think most people would err on the side of compassion and say that someone doesn't deserve to be exploited just because they're not well-adjusted (or old) enough to see it coming. Things like the gambling industry have proven how businesses can ruin lives just as easily and unpleasantly as common thieves when left to their own devices, and that's why it's sometimes appropriate for the law to step in. Obviously there's a sliding scale between anarchy and wrapping everyone in cotton wool, but things like the report in the OP are why lootbox legislation is slowly being pushed from one side of that spectrum to the other.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Wondercrab View Post
    I generally agree with the sentiment, but then you get into the ballpark of people with mental health issues (or children) and companies that target them in a predatory fashion. Malicious and exploitative things are still going on. You can take a "survival of the fittest" approach to it, but I think most people would err on the side of compassion and say that someone doesn't deserve to be exploited just because they're not well-adjusted (or old) enough to see it coming. Things like the gambling industry have proven how businesses can ruin lives just as easily and unpleasantly as common thieves when left to their own devices, and that's why it's sometimes appropriate for the law to step in. Obviously there's a sliding scale between anarchy and wrapping everyone in cotton wool, but things like the report in the OP are why lootbox legislation is slowly being pushed from one side of that spectrum to the other.
    I just worry that those of us who don't have issues are going to end up worse off. They keep killing companies forms of revenue and we're going to end up with either A) forced expansion payments all the time, or b) just lack of updates in general.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    https://www.bbc.com/news/business-46286945







    Don't believe loot box's are gambling, Well that doesn't matter because its reaching a point where more and more governments do because they are. More and more reports like this coming out will cause the government to step in.

    Don't want the government in the video game industry then people need to start boycotting these and AAA publishers need to remove them.

    Fix your problems or the government will force you to fix them.
    Millionaire companies implementing and developing around loot boxes are always disgusting , but as a parent giving your kid the ability to buy stuff in app is also a failure IMO .

  13. #33
    sadly lootboxes are trash, but to young new gamers they are the norm and that sucks. Means they got em hooked early so they'll pay and play for their entire lives most likely. Being an older gen gamer that started really early, I hate loot boxes, and the only time I end up buy any is usually really drunk and have disposable cash. So I've spent in my entire game life maybe $100 bucks on random loot box things. And I think that was a solid 3 purchases.

    I hate slot machine gambling. I worked in the gambling industry for five years and that was totally enough to completely put me off that shit. Gambling addicts rank up there with meth addicts when it comes to just insane delusion and putting themselves and their lively hood at risk.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    I just worry that those of us who don't have issues are going to end up worse off. They keep killing companies forms of revenue and we're going to end up with either A) forced expansion payments all the time, or b) just lack of updates in general.
    You're just worried that legislation will come along and prevent companies from exploiting consumers and taking away your free ride? Got it. We've gone from "production is expensive" to "I just want all the goodies for free".

  15. #35
    Seen a few people here comparing loot boxes to lottery tickets ..... Loot boxes can not be compared atall ....

    Lottery : is regulated and you know the odds

    Loot boxes : not regulated in any way and you have 0 idea of the odds, with the right software the program could know what you are after and how much you are likely to try and get it, this is tools we know activision got ( and thereby also blizzard )

    lets use Overwatch as example ....

    The *game * knows you play x hero most ... it also knows what skins you already got and what amount of money you used to get it, what is stopping Blizz from making that one skin you are missing the one you never get from a box ? ...sure you might over time get enough doublicates to buy it for ingame gold but at that point you used 40 bucks on boxes as the skin is limited time only .....

    sure i might need a tinfoil hat but really ...can you not see them do this ?

    Edit: if they wanted money for the stuff in loot boxes they could just sell it .... lets say skins in overwatch for 5 bucks .... but no ..there is far more money in the gambling element.
    Last edited by Drungan; 2018-11-21 at 08:16 PM.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Coombs View Post
    You're just worried that legislation will come along and prevent companies from exploiting consumers and taking away your free ride? Got it. We've gone from "production is expensive" to "I just want all the goodies for free".
    I'd be curious what the dollar amounts are of kids buying lootboxes vs. kids buying every $40 Sims pack that comes out. There isn't a business model in existence that is 100% consumer-friendly.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Nurasu View Post
    I'd be curious what the dollar amounts are of kids buying lootboxes vs. kids buying every $40 Sims pack that comes out. There isn't a business model in existence that is 100% consumer-friendly.
    That's more exploitative then loot boxes. Loot boxes for cosmetics are a much better approach then "you can't access this part of the game unless you pay". You don't NEED to buy loot boxes, you can earn them 100% in game, easily. If they were not earnable that would more of an issue.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    That's more exploitative then loot boxes. Loot boxes for cosmetics are a much better approach then "you can't access this part of the game unless you pay". You don't NEED to buy loot boxes, you can earn them 100% in game, easily. If they were not earnable that would more of an issue.
    I agree 100%. I vastly prefer the loot box model, where you get the entire game and have the option to purchase additional cosmetics. Even if they were not earnable in game, I think it's more consumer friendly than EA's half-completed games with paywalls for the rest of the content. I just think everyone gets hung up on loot boxes when there are already worse models out there that we can look at.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Nurasu View Post
    I agree 100%. I vastly prefer the loot box model, where you get the entire game and have the option to purchase additional cosmetics. Even if they were not earnable in game, I think it's more consumer friendly than EA's half-completed games with paywalls for the rest of the content. I just think everyone gets hung up on loot boxes when there are already worse models out there that we can look at.
    In terms of "consumer unfriendliness" I'd probably rate it Fremium mobile games>Day one DLC>First/Second year DLC>Loot Boxes, no one can argue that mobile games exist currently to exploit the players, but far too many people don't see an issue with day one or first year DLC, that's what they should be making laws against, selling incomplete games for full price.

  20. #40
    Deleted
    Lootboxes are f*****g s**t and need to go away as soon as possible. Publishers and Game Studios need to make the grand cash by selling quality games that everybody wants to play again, not by screwing minors with loot boxes "hello Animal Crossing Pocket Camp^^"

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