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  1. #601
    Quote Originally Posted by Motso View Post
    What inconsistency? I'm not arguing that it should fall more completely into the definition of gambling, I'm arguing that it may be impacting kids in a similar way. You seem to be really hung up on the definition of gambling, which is a fair cop a lot of people are arguing just that. I'm not.
    Do you have the same problem with TCGs (online and paper) and sticker albums being available to children, yes or no?

  2. #602
    Elemental Lord matheney2k's Avatar
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    Imagine defending loot boxes in video games...

    whether you care about children or not loot boxes are a plague to video games and have fucked the industry up tremendously, why would any self-respecting gamer want them?

  3. #603
    The Patient Motso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keeper Stalladris View Post
    Do you have the same problem with TCGs (online and paper) and sticker albums being available to children, yes or no?
    Actually, I do. I have issues with all of those randomized reward toys. But there again, tcgs and sticker books are both regulated in how they can be accessed.

    Despite how badly you want it to be true, the correlation between TCGs and lootboxes is just not as strong as you believe it to be.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/truegaming/..._from_trading/ this dude gives a pretty solid summary of why that is.

  4. #604
    Guys just don't take the bait, They even changed their name to try to hide the fact they have been baiting the thread.

    Ignore it since all they want to do is go "no your wrong I'm right" over and over.
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  5. #605
    Quote Originally Posted by Motso View Post
    Actually, I do. I have issues with all of those randomized reward toys. But there again, tcgs and sticker books are both regulated in how they can be accessed.
    What? Are children forbidden from accessing them? When I was a kid I spent a lot of money on TCG cards and stickers, nobody prevented me from doing it and nobody had a problem with it. Nobody, at any point, said it was like gambling.

    So we need to do something about this right? Tons of children are addicted to gambling right now, buying stickers and putting them into their albums.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    Guys just don't take the bait, They even changed their name to try to hide the fact they have been baiting the thread.
    "They." I don't have headmates dude, and I changed the name cause I picked a different avatar, cause I just made a druid deck with that legendary lol. I just happened to like that one better. Dude you can change your name once a month, like that would have any effect.

    You're crazy and paranoid to think I would change my name to hide anything.

    I'm not baiting anyone, what I said is 100% what I believe and you are dodging my questions.
    Last edited by Keeper Stalladris; 2019-06-23 at 12:16 PM.

  6. #606
    The Patient Motso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    Guys just don't take the bait, They even changed their name to try to hide the fact they have been baiting the thread.

    Ignore it since all they want to do is go "no your wrong I'm right" over and over.
    Aw man you are right. Bummer too as it is an interesting topic.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Keeper Stalladris View Post
    What? Are children forbidden from accessing them? When I was a kid I spent a lot of money on TCG cards and stickers, nobody prevented me from doing it and nobody had a problem with it. Nobody, at any point, said it was like gambling.

    - - - Updated - - -



    "They." I don't have headmates dude, and I changed the name cause I picked a different avatar, cause I just made a druid deck with that legendary lol

    You're crazy and paranoid to think I would change my name to hide anything.

    I'm not baiting anyone, what I said is 100% what I believe and you are dodging my questions.
    On the off chance you are legit, where do you read forbidden? Something as simple as the fact a tcg booster pack is a physical item being sold in a store acts as regulation. A kid trying to buy a thousand of the things is going to raise an eyebrow. Both things require an ESRB rating specific to them here so that is an actual government regulation.
    And do even a cursory search about it and you will see that a very similar argument linking to gambling has been made about tcgs since pokemon blew up in the 90s.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Keeper Stalladris View Post

    So we need to do something about this right? Tons of children are addicted to gambling right now, buying stickers and putting them into their albums.

    - - - Updated - - -
    Yeah mate you have to be taking the piss at this point. I keep saying things like 'this should probably be regulated' and you keep saying 'WHAT! FORBIDDEN!?' or I'll say 'there could be a link and if there is it should be addressed' and you read that as 'These things are 100% causing a gambling epidemic'.
    I feel like I am being pretty clear but your responses make it seem like I am arguing a point that I haven't been.

  7. #607
    Quote Originally Posted by Motso View Post
    On the off chance you are legit, where do you read forbidden? Something as simple as the fact a tcg booster pack is a physical item being sold in a store acts as regulation. A kid trying to buy a thousand of the things is going to raise an eyebrow. Both things require an ESRB rating specific to them here so that is an actual government regulation.
    And do even a cursory search about it and you will see that a very similar argument linking to gambling has been made about tcgs since pokemon blew up in the 90s.
    Quote Originally Posted by Motso View Post
    Yeah mate you have to be taking the piss at this point. I keep saying things like 'this should probably be regulated' and you keep saying 'WHAT! FORBIDDEN!?' or I'll say 'there could be a link and if there is it should be addressed' and you read that as 'These things are 100% causing a gambling epidemic'.
    I feel like I am being pretty clear but your responses make it seem like I am arguing a point that I haven't been.

    What are you talking about? If a kid has enough money to buy that many things, then the only thing raising an eyebrow would be, where does he get that kind of money from. Aside from the fact that most stores probably won't have a thousand TCG packs in store. What exactly is the regulation here? A kid can't buy a thousand TCG packs without it raising an eyebrow? Dude, no kid is gonna buy a thousand packs at once, and no store owner will prevent a kid from buying the amount of packs a kid will realistically buy. So what are you talking about?

    Let's face it, kids can buy TCG packs and stickers. That is legit gambling, just like lootboxes. There is no way to regulate that other than to prohibit that completely. So what should we do? Make both TCG packs, stickers and other comparable products, as well as lootboxes illegal, or just make them only available for people who are at least 18 years old? Both would be awful ideas.

    You know what the best thing is that you can do? Nothing. Just do nothing. If your kid wastes his money on lootboxes, fuck him. If you don't like lootboxes, don't buy them. There are plenty of ways in games like Overwatch, Hearthstone or Heroes of the Storm to earn those things through gameplay, and if a game doesn't offer a way to unlock them via playing, then don't play the game.

    You guys have such a hate boner for lootboxes that you've argued yourself into a corner where you have to accept other trivial things having the same purpose as lootboxes. It's nonsense. TCGs, stickers and video games are for kids. Let them have it and get a life.
    Last edited by Keeper Stalladris; 2019-06-23 at 12:34 PM.

  8. #608
    The Patient Kromtar's Avatar
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    The biggest difference to TCGs I see is if you want a specific card you can just trade for it or buy it directly from someone who opened a pack instead of gambling on getting it yourself randomly. With loot boxes you can't trade duplicates to other players making the gambling mechanic the only possible way to attain something specific.

  9. #609
    Quote Originally Posted by Kromtar View Post
    The biggest difference to TCGs I see is if you want a specific card you can just trade for it or buy it directly from someone who opened a pack instead of gambling on getting it yourself randomly. With loot boxes you can't trade duplicates to other players making the gambling mechanic the only possible way to attain something specific.
    That doesn't change that it's gambling.

    Also you could probably buy accounts that have the items you want.

  10. #610
    Quote Originally Posted by Keeper Stalladris View Post
    That doesn't change that it's gambling.
    And by this you are also admitting that Loot Box's are gambling, So congratz you killed your own argument.

    Yes TCG's are gambling and Yes Loot Box's is also Gambling.

    There is also major differences between the two (main one being ease of access) and both should be fully regulated to the point where a adult must buy them.

    As it stands with Loot Box's that isn't the case at all, A kid can go into any store and get a PSN card and buy Loot Box's in a game like Fifa. If a kid walked into Gamestop and tried to drop $100 down on some TC's they should be stopped and have a parent/guardian requested to come in.

    The only time this wouldn't be the case it would be if someone wasn't doing their job and if it was found out they would be out on their ass.

    The amount of kids I see come in and buy PSN,XBL,Steam cards and ect... is fucken insane and they are doing it for loot box's 90% of the time.

    Simple fix any game with Loot Box's (Gambling) should get a M or AO rating, At that point the gaming industry has done all they could/should do.

    I'm sure your not even going to read half of what I said and will just keep going "naw your wrong".
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  11. #611
    Quote Originally Posted by Keeper Stalladris View Post
    Do you have the same problem with TCGs (online and paper) and sticker albums being available to children, yes or no?
    Sure, we can remove the random factor from those games, titles and functions just to remove loot boxes from the industry.

  12. #612
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    And by this you are also admitting that Loot Box's are gambling, So congratz you killed your own argument.
    No, they're not. I'm just assuming your opinion and drawing the consequences from that. Neither TCGs nor lootboxes are gambling.

  13. #613
    Quote Originally Posted by Keeper Stalladris View Post
    No, they're not. I'm just assuming your opinion and drawing the consequences from that. Neither TCGs nor lootboxes are gambling.
    Like I said you wouldn't read the whole post and proved me right about that all your doing is baiting.
    Last edited by Jtbrig7390; 2019-06-23 at 03:06 PM.
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  14. #614
    Quote Originally Posted by Keeper Stalladris View Post
    No, they're not. I'm just assuming your opinion and drawing the consequences from that. Neither TCGs nor lootboxes are gambling.
    How is either TCGs or stickers w/e being randomized or unknown to the consumer in any way healthy for the consumer?

    Get rid of the factor that hides what you're purchasing, i'd be pretty happy with that as a magic, hearthstone player.

  15. #615
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    And by this you are also admitting that Loot Box's are gambling, So congratz you killed your own argument.

    Yes TCG's are gambling and Yes Loot Box's is also Gambling.

    There is also major differences between the two (main one being ease of access) and both should be fully regulated to the point where a adult must buy them.

    As it stands with Loot Box's that isn't the case at all, A kid can go into any store and get a PSN card and buy Loot Box's in a game like Fifa. If a kid walked into Gamestop and tried to drop $100 down on some TC's they should be stopped and have a parent/guardian requested to come in.

    The only time this wouldn't be the case it would be if someone wasn't doing their job and if it was found out they would be out on their ass.

    The amount of kids I see come in and buy PSN,XBL,Steam cards and ect... is fucken insane and they are doing it for loot box's 90% of the time.

    Simple fix any game with Loot Box's (Gambling) should get a M or AO rating, At that point the gaming industry has done all they could/should do.

    I'm sure your not even going to read half of what I said and will just keep going "naw your wrong".
    So why would you stop kids from buying $100 worth of TCG packs, but not stop them getting $100 of PSN,XBL,Steam cards?

  16. #616
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    Like I said you wouldn't read the whole post and proved me right about that all your doing is baiting.
    You're the one that didn't answer my question.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by OriginalName View Post
    How is either TCGs or stickers w/e being randomized or unknown to the consumer in any way healthy for the consumer?
    What do you mean by healthy? They're not gonna eat them. Is it unhealthy to spend tons of money on stupid shit? When I was a kid, I collected all sorts of things. I collected stickers, TCGs, Kinder Surprise Egg figures, stamps, and later in life video game collector's editions, books, DVDs etc.

    It is normal to want to collect. Randomizing things means you're probably gonna spend some more money on shit, but in the end, the problem is not in randomizing stuff, but in the desire to collect.

    Today I'm a minimalist. I sold everything that doesn't have some practical use. I deleted all my characters in WoW, and other MMOs, and then all my gaming accounts. So in a way, collecting these things led me to true happiness. It was all part of the journey. What do you wanna do? Forbid kids from making these experiences? Then how are they gonna handle things when they are adults?

    Funnily enough, when I was a kid I would go to the fair and pay for being able to play certain games, where I would then be able to collect coins, that I could redeem for prices. In a way, that is way closer to real gambling than lootboxes are and ever will be. Some of the machines at the fair were even modelled after real gambling machines. Like this coin pusher



    This was literally available to kids. You would buy coins from the fair with real money, put them in there, then win coins and you'd use them to redeem them for prices. This was all available to kids and still is and no one is batting an eyelash. We still have these things. Why don't you go and get those things "regulated"?
    Last edited by Keeper Stalladris; 2019-06-23 at 03:51 PM.

  17. #617
    Quote Originally Posted by Keeper Stalladris View Post


    What do you mean by healthy? They're not gonna eat them. Is it unhealthy to spend tons of money on stupid shit? When I was a kid, I collected all sorts of things. I collected stickers, TCGs, Kinder Surprise Egg figures, stamps, and later in life video game collector's editions, books, DVDs etc.

    It is normal to want to collect. Randomizing things means you're probably gonna spend some more money on shit, but in the end, the problem is not in randomizing stuff, but in the desire to collect.

    Today I'm a minimalist. I sold everything that doesn't have some practical use. I deleted all my characters in WoW, and other MMOs, and then all my gaming accounts. So in a way, collecting these things led me to true happiness. It was all part of the journey. What do you wanna do? Forbid kids from making these experiences? Then how are they gonna handle things when they are adults?

    Funnily enough, when I was a kid I would go to the fair and pay for being able to play certain games, where I would then be able to collect coins, that I could redeem for prices. In a way, that is way closer to real gambling than lootboxes are and ever will be. Some of the machines at the fair were even modelled after real gambling machines. Like this coin pusher

    This was literally available to kids. You would buy coins from the fair with real money, put them in there, then win coins and you'd use them to redeem them for prices. This was all available to kids and still is and no one is batting an eyelash. We still have these things. Why don't you go and get those things "regulated"?
    What do I mean by healthy is that, a consumer doesn't know exactly what they are purchasing when they are buying a TCG pack that obscure its card contents.

    They know the spirit of what they are buying; magic card but they don't know which cards precisely. I'm not going to address your experiences or the whole concept of collecting things, because you can still collect and experience things even if you know what you're buying.

    The reason i'm not targetting "kids" in this discussion is because the age of the consumer is rather irrelevant to me, it's a dishonorable business practice to conceal the contents of what you're selling, in order to artificially increase your prices, it's predatory and it shouldn't exist.

    How is your tangent addressing any of this?

  18. #618
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    So why would you stop kids from buying $100 worth of TCG packs, but not stop them getting $100 of PSN,XBL,Steam cards?
    Where are these "kids" getting the money to drop on either item? Their parents.

    No one likes loot boxes, but like most things with kids, all this comes down to is shitty parenting. Don't give them the money. How difficult is it to say no? If the credit card is saved on the console and the kid spends a shit ton of money it's the parents god damn fault. It's not the governments job or place to step in and do something about this. It's the consumers responsibility to spend their money wisely. If the gaming community has an issue with these types of transactions STOP FUCKING SUPPORTING THEM.

    If a "kid" has a job and is buying loot boxes or anything else, with the money THEY earned, it's no one else's god damn business. All this boils down to is whiny ass gamers not liking a system but still wanting said items from that system. So you bitch and cry and "oh the children!" trying to get someone else to come in and change the system because you have no impulse control.

    There is no reason for any intervention in this outside of consumers voting with their wallet and parents monitoring what their damn brats do.
    Last edited by Polly3685; 2019-06-23 at 04:12 PM.

  19. #619
    Quote Originally Posted by OriginalName View Post
    The reason i'm not targetting "kids" in this discussion is because the age of the consumer is rather irrelevant to me
    Uhm, then you've completely failed the topic. Because the only reason it would be a problem if lootboxes were gambling is because of kids. Because children are forbidden from gambling. If you don't care about children, then there is nothing to criticize about this. Gambling is legal in a lot of places and just because lootboxes might be considered gambling by some people won't make them go away. The whole controversy is about it being available to children.

  20. #620
    Herald of the Titans Violent's Avatar
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    Hahaha!

    We out here with real problems, especially children today.. But bro going to make a soap-box stand on kids gambling... LOLOL!

    "We mustn't let Johnny spend his lunch money on bets with friends! This, by far from anything else, my young Americans is our BIGGEST problem with our youth!"

    Just stop. I for one don't give 2shits about gambling, or even kids doing it.. There's alot of other shit kids are doing these days you should be worried about.
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