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  1. #681
    I'm not shcked to hear this.

    Companies more and more want to prey on developing minds and feed the addictive nature of gambling. It's a complete psychological game for game companies and how they work temptations to increase a money stream. Simple business move that has gotten greed over the years.

    It's one of those cases that it simply cannot be parents faults given for years and years people have been taught drugs are bad but dammit if we don't have drug addicts come through the ER on a daily basis and not just the worst addicts either. So there is no parental teaching that is addict-proof and it gets worse when gaming companies work hard on that temptation and addictive nature of gambling mixed into gaming.

    This is an issue that needs regulation just like gambling. It's all to easy for game companies to change the odds behind the scenes and manipulate the entire situation without the player ever knowing. Working the odds to never work for the gamers. Gambling needed regulations to stop crap like that from happening and I've become a believer that so do game companies and the way they have worked the loot boxes.
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  2. #682
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    Slap a AO or M ranting on games that has loot box's, Problem fixed. At that point its 100% on the parent.
    I agree, this is the ONLY option, anything else will result in a much worse situation since it'll mean the Gov't has gotten involved.

  3. #683
    Quote Originally Posted by Goldfingaz View Post
    I just enjoy people who are arguing the philosophy of gambling rather than trying to figure out what is "Right" vs what is "wrong", and even then it comes down to philosophy.
    Most people aren't arguing the philosophy of gambling. They're arguing the literal definition of it. Laws don't have morals. They don't have a philosophy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldfingaz View Post
    One of the arguments I struggle with is the physical mystery boxes like "Loot Crate". In Canada we had "Nerd Boxes" (I do believe they have since shut down) and I bought a couple months worth because of their themes. You were guaranteed things like a T-Shirt, and other little things. I felt this was less like gambling because I knew I was at the very least getting something worth the money spent.
    Yet a company selling a loot box is making a profit, much like a casino. The fact that you're getting "something" while still taking a financial loss is irrelevant.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldfingaz View Post
    Move onto loot boxes, and we'll use Black Ops 4 as the example since everyone is on the EA train. Currently their loot boxes while you can earn them without purchasing them, you can purchase them and there's a chance you can get a sticker in which you can use for an emblem or maybe even spray it on the ground or a wall (SO COOL!..jk) or you can get a gun that is better than most of the other guns (What's even worse is, you can get duplicates of what you already have, 3 duplicates = 1 guaranteed item you don't have, and the quality of duplicates you get play no factor, you can get something super rare as a duplicate then get a sticker as a reward for getting three dupes).
    So eventually you will get everything possible out of the loot box.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldfingaz View Post
    Loot crate - "I didn't get the T-Shirt I wanted", am I going to go buy another loot crate? No I can just buy that T-Shirt.
    1. Can you actually buy that T-shirt on its own? Maybe it only comes from that box?
    2. Also completely irrelevant. The fact that you can buy something outside of the gambling action does not invalidate the gambling action.

    If Best Buy held a loot box which could contain anything from a USB cable to a 90" 4k TV, would that be ok since you could just buy the TV itself? In Canada, that would be a no.


    Quote Originally Posted by Goldfingaz View Post
    Sure you can earn the crates without paying for them, however it's at an incredibly slow rate and the chances are you won't gain all items from those crates during the current "Season" and then you will have the next season's items also in the mix, snowballing it and causing way too many items and hurting your chances further. It's designed to give you a taste and get you to buy more.
    And you might not get everything from that month's loot box either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldfingaz View Post
    No one is going to buy thousands of dollars worth of Mystery Crates to get that one T-Shirt they want, no they will move on and just buy that T-shirt, not everyone is going to spend thousands on kinder surprise for a specific toy, instead they will just buy a toy.
    But people will spend thousands of dollars on TCG's, and have for decades.

    "It's a slippery slope, what else will the government be able to regulate in our video games?" - A terrible argument, people are simply asking the government to enforce gambling regulations. Video games don't miraculously get you around regulations already in place.[/QUOTE]

    They don't magically get around it. The regulations as worded do not apply. The UK specifically says you have to win money, or something that can easily be converted to money. Most loot boxes don't allow you to do that.

    Out of curiosity, if you were a law maker and could define gambling, what would your definition be?

  4. #684
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    You mean the two things that is regulated and you must be 18 for smokes and 21 for alcohol to buy in the US?

    You really should pick better things as a example if your trying to prove me wrong.

    Slap a AO or M ranting on games that has loot box's, Problem fixed. At that point its 100% on the parent.
    That's an ignorant statement. It doesn't matter what rating is on the outside of the package. The parents are still 100% responsible to monitor what their children are doing/playing.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Temp name View Post
    Not as much as the companies giving them access to the gambling. Saying that it's parents fault for not teaching their kids to not gamble is like saying it's the parents fault if a child gets kidnapped because they didn't teach them not to trust strangers. Could the parents have done more? Probably. Are they responsible? FUCK NO
    Loot boxes aren't bought with quarters little moron Timmy found at the bottom of his piggy bank. They are bought with credit cards tied to consoles and accounts. The parents are completely responsible for EVERYTHING their children do. That includes using their credit cards to buy loot boxes.

  5. #685
    Quote Originally Posted by Polly3685 View Post
    That's an ignorant statement. It doesn't matter what rating is on the outside of the package. The parents are still 100% responsible to monitor what their children are doing/playing.
    Really? If you drop your kid at school, and something happens to him, is it the parent fault?

    Also, again, then what are alcohol and cigarettes regulations for?

    You people keep arguing on fucking extremes, it's bloody ridiculous.

  6. #686
    Quote Originally Posted by Krastyn View Post
    Out of curiosity, if you were a law maker and could define gambling, what would your definition be?
    Thankfully I'm not a law maker, nor does one single person make laws but rather a team of people.

    I would classify loot boxes as online gambling as you're playing a game of chance with money for a potential gain, whether it's cosmetic or not. Why? Because there's no arguing that people become addicted to the results. The other issue is the audience that it is designed for. Gamers, of all ages. It wouldn't be so bad if it were only adults and you could enforce it but the company should have to be licensed and regulated like all other online gambling places (At least ones here in NA, I'm not 100% familiar with the UK but I believe they all have to be licensed as well, they are way more pro-online gambling than here).

    Honestly, I couldn't see why anyone would support this method beyond tinfoil hats going "Well what else will the government do?!?".

  7. #687
    Quote Originally Posted by Motso View Post
    It has become a pox on many many games at this point.
    If people actually felt that way, they'd stop being idiots and buying them. Good luck with that one, though. People are too weak to resist the urge to spend money on something they want, even if it's comparatively a bad value and they know it in their head.

  8. #688
    Quote Originally Posted by Myobi View Post
    Really? If you drop your kid at school, and something happens to him, is it the parent fault?

    Also, again, then what are alcohol and cigarettes regulations for?

    You people keep arguing on fucking extremes, it's bloody ridiculous.
    We're not talking about a kid having and accident and getting hurt or someone kidnapping them. Don't be intentionally dense.

    These kids aren't buying loot boxes for Call of Duty while they are at school. They are doing it when they get home, log into their Xbox that has their parent's credit card info saved to it and going to town. All because their parents are too lazy to watch what the kid is doing or to weak willed to say no. Either way it's the parents problem.

    Alcohol and cigarettes are deadly. Children are not the ones responsible for making decisions regarding their health. It is perfectly legal (at least where I live) for a minor do drink in the company of a guardian. I'm unsure if cigarettes work the same way.
    Last edited by Polly3685; 2019-06-24 at 05:19 PM.

  9. #689
    Quote Originally Posted by Goldfingaz View Post
    "Well what else will the government do?!?".
    While is true that there is a difference between a video game and it's monetization, we already know what governments are cable of doing towards video games, completely banning video games or forcing companies to censor them is nothing new, but it's something I wouldn't like to become common, so yes, I completely respect the people and their tin foil hats wanting the government to just stay the fuck away.

    Quote Originally Posted by Polly3685 View Post
    We're not talking about a kid having and accident and getting hurt or someone kidnapping them. Don't be intentionally dense.
    No, we are talking about parents being “100%” responsible for monitoring their kids, pointing out that’s just ain’t true and outright impossible, doesn’t make me “intentionally dense”, just as you trying to insult me doesn't make your argument any favors.

    Quote Originally Posted by Polly3685 View Post
    These kids aren't buying loot boxes for Call of Duty while they are at school. They are doing it when they get home, log into their Xbox that has their parent credit card info saved to it and going to town. All because their parents are too lazy to watch what the kid is doing or to weak willed to say no. Either way it's the parents problem.
    You don’t need a credit card to purchase them, if you are into video games, it’s something that you should be aware already, pre-paid cards are a thing in any platform nowadays, also, yes, they are playing the video games mostly at home, games that nowhere in the box or website inform exactly what’s being sold in this regard, which is what a lot of people are advocating for.

    Quote Originally Posted by Polly3685 View Post
    Alcohol and cigarettes are deadly. Children are not the ones responsible for making decisions regarding their health. It is perfectly legal (at least where I live) for a minor do drink in the company of a guardian. I'm unsure if cigarettes work the same way.
    Mental health is a thing, you know? There are also enough studies on the psychological impact of this sort of shit on brains that are still developing… thus why the regulations and laws don't stop at alcohol or cigarettes, but also on shit such as... you know... gambling.

    Edited: Did you know that in a lot of places video games stores are also responsible for not selling +18 rated games to minors?

  10. #690
    Quote Originally Posted by Myobi View Post
    While is true that there is a difference between a video game and it's monetization, we already know what governments are cable of doing towards video games, completely banning video games or forcing companies to censor them is nothing new, but it's something I wouldn't like to become common, so yes, I completely respect the people and their tin foil hats wanting the government to just stay the fuck away.
    To me it seems silly. The government can literally regulate everything you do now, and yet no one is really complaining all that much because they really aren't infringing on any of your actual rights.

    Banning or censoring video games is nothing new you're correct and only done in extreme situations. How in the world will this increase if they ban gambling models within games? If this was an issue, there would be a lot more mainstream banned games already but that's not the case. I assure you, if this was going to happen it would have based on one simple mission in a video game "No Russian."

    So, no the tinfoil hat helps nothing, other helping exploit people via gambling models.

    Unless you live in a Country like China or Germany....

  11. #691
    Quote Originally Posted by Polly3685 View Post
    Loot boxes aren't bought with quarters little moron Timmy found at the bottom of his piggy bank. They are bought with credit cards tied to consoles and accounts. The parents are completely responsible for EVERYTHING their children do. That includes using their credit cards to buy loot boxes.
    Actually they are. Notice all those nice and brightly coloured cards you can buy in nearly every store? You know which cards i'm talking about.
    The one that in exchange for your nickel and dimes gets you credit in any online-store that offers them. Like for PSN, XBox-Services, Nintendo Shop or the good old Bliizard Gift/Balance Card.
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    I'm fine with a mafia. Of course, the mafia families often worked with independent third parties in order to maintain relations.

  12. #692
    Quote Originally Posted by Polly3685 View Post
    We're not talking about a kid having and accident and getting hurt or someone kidnapping them. Don't be intentionally dense.

    These kids aren't buying loot boxes for Call of Duty while they are at school. They are doing it when they get home, log into their Xbox that has their parent's credit card info saved to it and going to town. All because their parents are too lazy to watch what the kid is doing or to weak willed to say no. Either way it's the parents problem.

    Alcohol and cigarettes are deadly. Children are not the ones responsible for making decisions regarding their health. It is perfectly legal (at least where I live) for a minor do drink in the company of a guardian. I'm unsure if cigarettes work the same way.
    You don't actually know what you're talking about.

    First of all if a kid is actually playing CoD, yes it's the parents fault because no store is going to sell an M rated game to a kid without the parent present.

    Second of all, M rated games aren't the only ones with loot boxes. Games that are rated T and E do as well.

    Third of all you don't need your parents CC on your account to buy loot boxes, you can simply walk into literally any gamestop/family dollar/walmart/target/best buy/dollar general and probably even more stores and buy PSN or XBL currency with the kid's own allowance.

    Fourth of all kid can also buy said games that have loot boxes even with parental controls turned on if they are E and T rated games.

    So umm yea, your entire argument is bunk. Making games that have loot boxes rated M would instantly give parents far more power as no store is going to sell the game to the kid, nor could they buy it digitally with the proper parental controls set up.

  13. #693
    Quote Originally Posted by segara82 View Post
    Actually they are. Notice all those nice and brightly coloured cards you can buy in nearly every store? You know which cards i'm talking about.
    The one that in exchange for your nickel and dimes gets you credit in any online-store that offers them. Like for PSN, XBox-Services, Nintendo Shop or the good old Bliizard Gift/Balance Card.
    The minimum I could find for PSN is $10, not going to look them all up. These kids aren't digging up $10 worth of spare change and hitchhiking to the store to buy a PSN card. They are using their parent's money and transportation. There is no scenario where this is not the parent's responsibility.

  14. #694
    Brewmaster Sfidt's Avatar
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    I don't blame the corporations. They don't extort money. People give them money, people buy these lootboxes, people pay for their kids' whims, people don't monitor their children. It's always someone else to blame but the people responsible. There are multiple ways to prevent your kids from gambling in video games. Harder to protect them in real life interactions but still you can educate them.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Polly3685 View Post
    The minimum I could find for PSN is $10, not going to look them all up. These kids aren't digging up $10 worth of spare change and hitchhiking to the store to buy a PSN card. They are using their parent's money and transportation. There is no scenario where this is not the parent's responsibility.
    Exactly. Most kids wouldn't even bother to go out and spend that change on gift card if they wanted to buy a randomized reward. It's convenient to spend money from debit card and you don't really feel the money gone that way until you check your balance. It's nothing like giving your monthly or weekly pocket money to a cashier knowing that you wouldn't be able to buy another game for that price or some sweets or whatever.
    S.H.

  15. #695
    Quote Originally Posted by Myobi View Post
    While is true that there is a difference between a video game and it's monetization, we already know what governments are cable of doing towards video games, completely banning video games or forcing companies to censor them is nothing new, but it's something I wouldn't like to become common, so yes, I completely respect the people and their tin foil hats wanting the government to just stay the fuck away.



    No, we are talking about parents being “100%” responsible for monitoring their kids, pointing out that’s just ain’t true and outright impossible, doesn’t make me “intentionally dense”, just as you trying to insult me doesn't make your argument any favors.



    You don’t need a credit card to purchase them, if you are into video games, it’s something that you should be aware already, pre-paid cards are a thing in any platform nowadays, also, yes, they are playing the video games mostly at home, games that nowhere in the box or website inform exactly what’s being sold in this regard, which is what a lot of people are advocating for.



    Mental health is a thing, you know? There are also enough studies on the psychological impact of this sort of shit on brains that are still developing… thus why the regulations and laws don't stop at alcohol or cigarettes, but also on shit such as... you know... gambling.

    Edited: Did you know that in a lot of places video games stores are also responsible for not selling +18 rated games to minors?
    Mental health is a thing, never said it wasn't. Even if these loot boxes were gambling, which they are not, then it would fall under the same idea as drinking with a guardian. Still the parent's responsibility.

  16. #696
    Quote Originally Posted by Polly3685 View Post
    The minimum I could find for PSN is $10, not going to look them all up. These kids aren't digging up $10 worth of spare change and hitchhiking to the store to buy a PSN card. They are using their parent's money and transportation. There is no scenario where this is not the parent's responsibility.
    Do you think all kids live in the middle of no where? Chances are most have a store within blocks.

    Also gift cards aren't the only way to get currency, at most stores you can even get custom amounts printed out on a receipt. You just continue to astonish me with being oblivious to the way this all works.

  17. #697
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    You don't actually know what you're talking about.

    First of all if a kid is actually playing CoD, yes it's the parents fault because no store is going to sell an M rated game to a kid without the parent present.

    Second of all, M rated games aren't the only ones with loot boxes. Games that are rated T and E do as well.

    Third of all you don't need your parents CC on your account to buy loot boxes, you can simply walk into literally any gamestop/family dollar/walmart/target/best buy/dollar general and probably even more stores and buy PSN or XBL currency with the kid's own allowance.

    Fourth of all kid can also buy said games that have loot boxes even with parental controls turned on if they are E and T rated games.

    So umm yea, your entire argument is bunk. Making games that have loot boxes rated M would instantly give parents far more power as no store is going to sell the game to the kid, nor could they buy it digitally with the proper parental controls set up.
    I used a random game. I'm well aware that CoD is not the only game that has loot boxes. Game ratings don't absolve parent's form monitoring what their kids are playing. You can see my replies to others about the BS physical card argument. A kid's "own allowance" is still their parent's money.

  18. #698
    Quote Originally Posted by Polly3685 View Post
    Mental health is a thing, never said it wasn't. Even if these loot boxes were gambling, which they are not, then it would fall under the same idea as drinking with a guardian. Still the parent's responsibility.
    According to what? The dictionary? To countries such as Belgium? Isn't that the entire point of the fucking thing? Deciding weather to treat them as gambling in casinos or not? Also, are you going to know that the kids are purchasing these loot boxes with the guardian permission or not?

    Yes, a lot of it is on the parents, but pretending they are "100%" responsible for it is ridiculous.

  19. #699
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    Do you think all kids live in the middle of no where? Chances are most have a store within blocks.

    Also gift cards aren't the only way to get currency, at most stores you can even get custom amounts printed out on a receipt. You just continue to astonish me with being oblivious to the way this all works.
    You continue to astonish me with how willing you are to absolve parents of the responsibility of monitoring their children.

    No matter the amount, unless it's a "kid" old enough to have a job and use their own money, in which case it's no ones god damn business what they spend their money on, then they are using money they got from their parents. Then they walked down to a store and spent the money. Again the parents letting them do it.

  20. #700
    Quote Originally Posted by Polly3685 View Post
    I used a random game. I'm well aware that CoD is not the only game that has loot boxes. Game ratings don't absolve parent's form monitoring what their kids are playing. You can see my replies to others about the BS physical card argument. A kid's "own allowance" is still their parent's money.
    Game ratings literally exist to tell parents about the games they're buying and prevent minors from buying questionable games by themselves. Why do you think they ever became a thing in the first place?

    Going off your posts it seems you believe a parent should have total control over their kids at all times, not work, not have a life on their own just literally follow their kid everywhere they go even when they went out of their way to set up reasonable amounts of spending money given to them and properly setting up parental controls on all their devices.

    In other words, you have no experience with parenting at all.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Polly3685 View Post
    in which case it's no ones god damn business what they spend their money on
    As my mom once told me when I got my first job, it's her business what I spend my money on until I get out of her house, pay my own bills and feed myself.

    This comment alone makes me think you actually are a kid... because this ain't how it works lmao.

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