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  1. #701
    The Insane Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    It removes the responsibility from the company to 100% the parents. Also don't know about the state you live in or the store you buy from but in mine you can't just get a friend to do it.

    It must be a parent/guardian.
    How you gonna stop them? If they are 18+ why wouldn't they be allowed to buy the game. Same as how it happens with cigarettes/alcohol right now.


    I personally think it already is 100% on the parent. Don't see why we need laws from the government to make it more so.
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  2. #702
    Quote Originally Posted by Orange Joe View Post
    How you gonna stop them? If they are 18+ why wouldn't they be allowed to buy the game. Same as how it happens with cigarettes/alcohol right now.

    I personally think it already is 100% on the parent. Don't see why we need laws from the government to make it more so.
    By not selling it to them? Its not hard to realize Jimmy 14 year old's dad isn't the 19 year old with a ID. But hey what do I know It isn't like I run a store that sells games or anything........

    Like with literally all laws, The intent isn't to stop something 100%. By ur logic there should be no laws because it doesn't stop something 100%
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  3. #703
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    By not selling it to them? Its not hard to realize Jimmy 14 year old's dad isn't the 19 year old with a ID. But hey what do I know It isn't like I run a store that sells games or anything........

    Like with literally all laws, The intent isn't to stop something 100%.
    Um... You do know the kid can wait outside right?
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  4. #704
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    By not selling it to them? Its not hard to realize Jimmy 14 year old's dad isn't the 19 year old with a ID. But hey what do I know It isn't like I run a store that sells games or anything........

    Like with literally all laws, The intent isn't to stop something 100%. By ur logic there should be no laws because it doesn't stop something 100%
    I mean, any smart person isn't going to bring the young kid in, this is how I used to buy beer for my brother.

  5. #705
    Quote Originally Posted by Orange Joe View Post
    Um... You do know the kid can wait outside right?
    And that's not the problem of the store or the company.

    Friends can also trade stuff to each other or just give each other stuff. Once again and repeat after me here with literally all laws, The intent isn't to stop something 100%.
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  6. #706
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    And that's not the problem of the store or the company.

    Friends can also trade stuff to each other or just give each other stuff. Once again and repeat after me here with literally all laws, The intent isn't to stop something 100%.
    What % are we looking for? Why wouldn't an awareness campaign for parents work better while not enacting more laws that could be twisted and do more harm than good?
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  7. #707
    Quote Originally Posted by Orange Joe View Post
    What % are we looking for? Why wouldn't an awareness campaign for parents work better while not enacting more laws that could be twisted and do more harm than good?
    How could a law that makes it where if a game has gambling in it you must be a adult to buy get twisted?

    Its very clear cut...

    Once again by ur logic there should be no laws because they don't work all the time.
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  8. #708
    Quote Originally Posted by Goldfingaz View Post
    The law can simply state that online gambling isn't allowed unless licensed and regulated properly, and believing loot boxes within games are gambling.
    You're missing the point. If you're considering loot boxes gambling whether they are online or not is irrelevant. Or you would be making Hearthstone gambling, but Magic The Gathering ok.


    Quote Originally Posted by Goldfingaz View Post
    There is no set value for TCG cards, Kinder Surprise Toys, Monthly Loot Cart items, or Dollar store surprise bags. There is however value attached to items within games such as call of duty blackops 4.
    You keep changing your definition of "value". A Blackops 4 item has ZERO real world value supported through EA. Magic The Gathering used to have (and may still have) a magazine offering prices of cards. Almost every comic shop around me will pay cash for cards. They 100% have value. It's not a set in stone value, but it is way, way easier to convert it into actual cash.

    In one post you'll complain about how evil it is when they put items only in loot boxes, but then when they they offer it as a stand alone purchase you argue about how now the item magically has value and that's why it is gambling. Be consistent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldfingaz View Post
    In Kinder Surprise, TCG, Monthly loot crates or surprise bags you get exactly it's worth, unless someone else deems it's worth more.
    And in blackops 4 loot crates, you get exactly that. Nothing. You can't sell it for anything, even if someone thinks it is worth more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldfingaz View Post
    WoW Seals and RNG loot from WoW, legit dumbest thing brought to the table, congratulations.
    A loot crate gives you a random chance at an item.

    A Seal gives you a random chance at an item.

    You just spoke about how BO:4 loot crates cost X points, which can be earned in game, or purchased for real money.

    Seals can be purchased for gold, which can be earned in game, or purchased for real money.

    Literally the same mechanic. The frequency and ease with which you can do it does not matter. What does is the mechanics, and they are identical.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldfingaz View Post
    Ok may as well just legalize all things that can be addictive by this logic. "Other things are addictive but not illegal", cool. We're not talking about those things right now, we're talking about these things.
    Did I say that? Did I argue that? No. You're building a nice strawman though. You're saying it should be illegal because it's addictive. I'm saying that isn't reason enough. Addiction alone is not a reason to ban something.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldfingaz View Post
    Again, stupid argument. "They can find ways around it so who cares?" a loop whole pops up and you close it. Typically loop holes aren't really there when making things entirely illegal as there are teams of people ensuring it, and if one does popup they close it again, problem solved.
    Again, thanks for completely missing the point. Maybe take some time to comprehend what is being said. Words have meaning. It isn't as easy as saying "all loot boxes are gambling, any game with them must be legal age". It goes way deeper than that, with way more nuance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldfingaz View Post
    There legitimately is no other argument, not that I see no other argument. "I like it!" isn't a reason neither is "I don't care". There is a huge issue right now with impressionable children (Please note impressionable children have always been a problem hence age limits on smoking/drinking/GAMBLING etc) and out of sight gambling.
    .

    Once again, just because you dismiss something as illegitimate does not make it so. Evidence needs to be presented. Middle ground can be found.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldfingaz View Post
    Literally posted a quote where the commission said loot-boxes were gambling.
    You literally do not know the own source material you are quoting. It does not say anywhere that loot boxes were gambling. I will point out a few tidbits of information from the report:

    Overall, based on the description provided, 54% of 11-16 year olds were aware that it is possible to pay money or use in-game items to open loot boxes/crates/packs to get other in-game items within the game you are playing, and 31% had ever used in-game items in this way.
    So at best, 31% have ever opened a loot box. This alone to me is a meaningless stat since they lumped people who paid money OR used in game currency. They should have broken it down, as the vast majority of games allow you to purchase loot boxes with in game currency.

    Here are two more tidbits:
    Overall, 3% of 11-15 year olds had played any National Lottery game in the past seven days, a slight decrease from 4% in 2017, and 10% had played any National Lottery game in the past 12 months.
    Rates of online gambling remain relatively low, with only 1% of 11-16 year olds spending their money to gamble online in the past seven days, and only 5% having done so in the past 12 months.
    So in the last 12 months, twice as many kids have bought a Lottery ticket as have done any kind of online gambling. Wouldn't it be more effective to focus on all those addicted lottery players since there are way more of them than loot box buyers?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    How could a law that makes it where if a game has gambling in it you must be a adult to buy get twisted?
    How would you propose a company verify someone's age for an online game or app?

  9. #709
    Quote Originally Posted by Orange Joe View Post
    How you gonna stop them? If they are 18+ why wouldn't they be allowed to buy the game. Same as how it happens with cigarettes/alcohol right now.


    I personally think it already is 100% on the parent. Don't see why we need laws from the government to make it more so.
    Actually if there is a kid with the customer and they don't look like the parent that is pretty much store policy to not sell to them. So what are they going to do? They're gonna tell you to get the kid's parent.

    Hell pretty sure in some regions it's even store policy to not sell digital currency to a kid if they tried and failed to buy an M rated game from you. It's not as easy as you think, nor are most kids smart enough to wait outside they're usually paying some 17+ teen 5 bucks and supervising the whole thing for them Seen this shit many times more then a decade ago and pretty sure it's no different now.

  10. #710
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    Quote Originally Posted by Popastique View Post
    Lulz, that comparison is ridiculous. No one is forcing the child to push the buttons and buy some shiny stuff, and fuck yes the parents are responsible for not teaching their kid how to avoid spending huge amounts of money in video games. In that particular case ( buying stuff ) parents are responsible.
    Companies do force them tho. They make those "buttons" and "shiny stuff" highly desirable for kids (as in deliberately targeting vulnerable for exploitation population in order to exploit them)

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Popastique View Post
    If parents can't spend time with their kids and raise them properly, why bother having kids in the first place?
    Not company's fault for sure. Spend time with your children - problem solved.
    You sound like someone who never actually had experience with kids. You do realize that sitting down and saying to a kid "don't waste your money" doesn't stop them from wasting their money? Or, you know, that kids can lie, steal, take money from other kids via various means? If we allow companies to exploit kids we fail as a society. Not because we "suck a parenting", but because we put corporate profits over mental health of kids.
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    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  11. #711
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    This literally has nothing to do with what I'm talking about.
    how exactly it doesn't when it is obvious they rate games more focus on nudity than violence, because how they tolerate violence in their country
    we talk about a country that had back to school sales... on guns
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  12. #712
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    Quote Originally Posted by segara82 View Post
    Now, IF those lootboxes could only be bought then certain posters would be right to complain about parents and paying attention.
    But the thing is, companies throw those things at the players as playing-rewards to get them hooked.
    Thats like saying: Kids, don't do drug, but then let the dealer run around on the playground handing out free test-samples to get his future clients hooked.
    That's another good point that goes over of some posters heads
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  13. #713
    The Insane Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    How could a law that makes it where if a game has gambling in it you must be a adult to buy get twisted?

    Its very clear cut...

    Once again by ur logic there should be no laws because they don't work all the time.
    Cause the definition of gambling can mean a great number of things


    And I'm not saying laws don't work. i'm saying useless laws don't work. If they can easily be circumvented and hard to enforce it's a useless law.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    Actually if there is a kid with the customer and they don't look like the parent that is pretty much store policy to not sell to them. So what are they going to do? They're gonna tell you to get the kid's parent.

    Hell pretty sure in some regions it's even store policy to not sell digital currency to a kid if they tried and failed to buy an M rated game from you. It's not as easy as you think, nor are most kids smart enough to wait outside they're usually paying some 17+ teen 5 bucks and supervising the whole thing for them Seen this shit many times more then a decade ago and pretty sure it's no different now.
    Um.... as I said before. Kid just waits outside in the car. Seller would never know the difference. Thats how I was able to get cigarettes at 14...... And anyone I knew that smoked underage knew how to do this. Kids aren't as dumb as you think.
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  14. #714
    Quote Originally Posted by Orange Joe View Post
    Um.... as I said before. Kid just waits outside in the car. Seller would never know the difference. Thats how I was able to get cigarettes at 14......
    Like I already said, been there done that. Most kids come into the store.

    And anyone I knew that smoked underage knew how to do this. Kids aren't as dumb as you think.
    You literally proved my point kids are as dumb as I think they are when you're talking about smoking at 14 lmao. Anyways I crushed many a dreams of kids and been called every toxic slur in the book by them for refusing them games in this exact situation so please tell me more about how I'm wrong. Kids are indeed stupid, even the ones that are book smart generally lack wisdom and thus are liable to do lots of stupid shit. Hell kids literally need to do stupid shit because that is how you learn most life lessons in the first place.
    Last edited by Tech614; 2019-06-25 at 03:40 AM.

  15. #715
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldfingaz View Post
    Move onto loot boxes, and we'll use Black Ops 4 as the example since everyone is on the EA train. Currently their loot boxes while you can earn them without purchasing them, you can purchase them and there's a chance you can get a sticker in which you can use for an emblem or maybe even spray it on the ground or a wall (SO COOL!..jk) or you can get a gun that is better than most of the other guns (What's even worse is, you can get duplicates of what you already have, 3 duplicates = 1 guaranteed item you don't have, and the quality of duplicates you get play no factor, you can get something super rare as a duplicate then get a sticker as a reward for getting three dupes).
    I must add that for us to have these "spray loot drops" that you can put on a wall we had to give up custom sprays. Lootboxes suck

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    A kid with a part time job earning $600-800 a month with no bills or responsibilities should be monitored by their parent on what they spend their money on... this ain't rocket science nor is it claiming it's not "their" money. lmao.
    Someone spending 600-800 a month on MTX should see a doctor or something, because it's most likely a result of being exposed to gambling.
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  16. #716
    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    Someone spending 600-800 a month on MTX should see a doctor or something, because it's most likely a result of being exposed to gambling.
    Words can't even describe how baffled I am at this strawman. I just don't know man. Please point out where I ever said any of that. Hint: I didn't.

  17. #717
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bennett View Post
    Because your scenario is ridiculous - now it's up to game devs to also make sure your kids don't pick up your cash and buy pre-paid cards?
    Nah, it's more like devs contacting ESRB/PEGI and telling them "we have gambling mechanics and we plan to basically make people addicted to it in hope that they'll spend ridiculous amount of cash on them. We don't want kids to get in trouble tho, so please give us 18+ rating"
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  18. #718
    Be like Belgium problem fixed

  19. #719
    The Patient Motso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post

    The thing is F2P Fortnite doesn't have loot-boxes, the Parliamentary commission is looking into addictive/immersive games as potentially harmful regardless of microtransactions including calls to outright ban the game or place restrictions on how long people are allowed to play.
    There you go I was totally off base. I honestly didn't do more than flick through sources on it because I was just seeing if Keeper Whateverthehell would crack. And I found fortnight to be unplayable, literally, it won't run on my computer and I don't care to make it.

  20. #720
    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    You sound like someone who never actually had experience with kids. You do realize that sitting down and saying to a kid "don't waste your money" doesn't stop them from wasting their money? Or, you know, that kids can lie, steal, take money from other kids via various means? If we allow companies to exploit kids we fail as a society. Not because we "suck a parenting", but because we put corporate profits over mental health of kids.
    That is an example of inadequate parenting that leads to a kid acting like that (lying,stealing,taking money from other kids) on everyday basis. No shit you can't say something like *don't waste your money* to a kid and expect them to follow that advice. It is a lot more complex than that, and usually providing a good example is just one of many things a parent must do to raise a kid properly.
    Again : if someone can't be a proper parent and spend time with their child, then one shouldn't become a parent in the first place.

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