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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by valax View Post
    Millionaire companies implementing and developing around loot boxes are always disgusting , but as a parent giving your kid the ability to buy stuff in app is also a failure IMO .
    I think the parenting part is the more important aspect, as a general "checks and balances" approach to activities that may be unsafe to children should start with the parents... I mean, it is your job as a parent to provide for your kid, keep them safe, and educate them. Don't recall buying loot boxes and lottery tickets ever being part of the "necessities" of life. Despite the increased chance of exposure to such activites, kids generally will not have access to funds that allow them to access these activities (on top of gambling activities being illegal below a certain age in most places). Sure, there are some kids who can get their funds through a variety of methods and activities, but for the age group specified they'd be in the vast minority. The likely way such behavior is fostered is because the parents let it happen.
    “Society is endangered not by the great profligacy of a few, but by the laxity of morals amongst all.”
    “It's not an endlessly expanding list of rights — the 'right' to education, the 'right' to health care, the 'right' to food and housing. That's not freedom, that's dependency. Those aren't rights, those are the rations of slavery — hay and a barn for human cattle.”
    ― Alexis de Tocqueville

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    I just worry that those of us who don't have issues are going to end up worse off. They keep killing companies forms of revenue and we're going to end up with either A) forced expansion payments all the time, or b) just lack of updates in general.
    That's more of a problem of the AAA industry's own making right now. It's relatively easy for a game to be profitable and receive continued ongoing support, the problem is that many AAA companies are answerable to shareholders who only want to see the company keep growing year by year. It doesn't matter if Overwatch, CoD, or Fifa are making more than enough money to justify ongoing development -- because if they're not continually making even *more* money then that's a failure in the shareholders' eyes. Parts of the AAA industry right now are stuck in a bubble that's going to inevitably burst when the demand for ever-increasing profits can't keep up with the realities of game development. There are plenty of games out there that get ongoing updates without the need to charge for anything more than an up front box price or some very mild additional purchases. The idea that the people putting lootboxes in games need to do so in order to keep development going is a myth -- the reason they need those lootboxes is to keep their shareholders happy by showing increased growth year on year.

    It's very telling that the majority of the AAA game companies who implement these systems are the ones who always make the most ludicrous profits off their games in the first place, not the smaller studios that struggle to stay afloat project by project.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by exochaft View Post
    I think the parenting part is the more important aspect, as a general "checks and balances" approach to activities that may be unsafe to children should start with the parents... I mean, it is your job as a parent to provide for your kid, keep them safe, and educate them. Don't recall buying loot boxes and lottery tickets ever being part of the "necessities" of life. Despite the increased chance of exposure to such activites, kids generally will not have access to funds that allow them to access these activities (on top of gambling activities being illegal below a certain age in most places). Sure, there are some kids who can get their funds through a variety of methods and activities, but for the age group specified they'd be in the vast minority. The likely way such behavior is fostered is because the parents let it happen.
    That's another point entirely, if you look around nowadays nothing is the "parent's fault". Back when I was growing up and before that (32 years old) you didn't see kids running around restaurants, much less government buildings. We went to change my wife's name at the dmv after we got married, and there were like 3 kids just running circles in there while the parents just sat on their phones. No one holds them responsible for anything anymore, just drug the kids up and let them do whatever now. If I was doing that I would have gotten smacked and not see anything but the inside of my room for awhile.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Wondercrab View Post
    That's more of a problem of the AAA industry's own making right now. It's relatively easy for a game to be profitable and receive continued ongoing support, the problem is that many AAA companies are answerable to shareholders who only want to see the company keep growing year by year. It doesn't matter if Overwatch, CoD, or Fifa are making more than enough money to justify ongoing development -- because if they're not continually making even *more* money then that's a failure in the shareholders' eyes. Parts of the AAA industry right now are stuck in a bubble that's going to inevitably burst when the demand for ever-increasing profits can't keep up with the realities of game development. There are plenty of games out there that get ongoing updates without the need to charge for anything more than an up front box price or some very mild additional purchases. The idea that the people putting lootboxes in games need to do so in order to keep development going is a myth -- the reason they need those lootboxes is to keep their shareholders happy by showing increased growth year on year.

    It's very telling that the majority of the AAA game companies who implement these systems are the ones who always make the most ludicrous profits off their games in the first place, not the smaller studios that struggle to stay afloat project by project.
    You're not wrong, I mean, look at how ActiBlizz talked about wow at the last earnings call, something like showing a continued increase in "value addon service". Problem is, very few GOOD indie games in the styles I like.

  4. #44
    The only thing I could see them doing might be to require debit instead of credit cards for lootbox purchases, but the business model as a whole is not inherently flawed. The cost of gaming has gone up right, wrong, or indifferent, and loot boxes lower that impact on the majority of players.

    I also think it's disingenuous to tie the study so deeply to loot boxes.

  5. #45
    Deleted
    Remember the times when video games came in a cassette/cartridge/disc and you got the whole game.

    Games today feel like buying the interior of a car for full price and then having to pay extra over time for the interior.

    What happened to in game unlockables?

    I miss the days before video games became this huge corporate sellout, back when video games were made by real nerds, not people in suits

    Man another reason to miss the 90's

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Wizard Sanctum View Post
    Remember the times when video games came in a cassette or cartridge and you got the whole game.

    Games today feel like buying the interior of a car for full price and then having to pay extra over time for the interior.

    What happened to in game unlockables?

    I miss the days before video games became this huge corporate sellout, back when video games were made by real nerds, not people in suits
    You mean the days that didn't exist? You mean the times where you bought a cartridge for $60 and it was often a game that you played for 45 minutes because it was trash, broken, buggy, or just awful if it wasn't a flagship title?

    Yeah, don't start with that old-times-were-the-best crap. Honestly I'd rather never go back to that kind of gaming distribution. I just play the games I like now and don't buy loot boxes, it's pretty great overall.

  7. #47
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    You mean the days that didn't exist? You mean the times where you bought a cartridge for $60 and it was often a game that you played for 45 minutes because it was trash, broken, buggy, or just awful if it wasn't a flagship title?

    Yeah, don't start with that old-times-were-the-best crap. Honestly I'd rather never go back to that kind of gaming distribution. I just play the games I like now and don't buy loot boxes, it's pretty great overall.
    Not sure what games you played, I didn't have any broken games. I only played good games.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    Yes, they cover the cost of PRODUCING the game, but not maintaining it. Loot boxes is a small price to pay for new maps, heroes, updates, etc all being released.
    Why on earth can you not provide all the items in lootboxes as items for purchase at a shop. . .
    Hail Lilith and see you in Hell!

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Why on earth can you not provide all the items in lootboxes as items for purchase at a shop. . .
    This is how lootboxes should be handled.

    Free to play -> earn lootboxes.

    Want to not deal with RNG -> direct purchase.

    If lootboxes were only earned by leveling, and cosmetics could be purchased directly without the need to level to look cool. But that makes sales reasonable instead of perverse.

  10. #50
    Warchief Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    Well, it really comes to a point of, do you want updates to your game past the first year? Yes? Then there's either some form of Microtransaction, or you're buying "season passes", games are expensive to develop.
    Ye, and then they release new title next year regardless, while abandoning previous. And the cycle repeats.

    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    Yes, they cover the cost of PRODUCING the game, but not maintaining it. Loot boxes is a small price to pay for new maps, heroes, updates, etc all being released.
    Source on that please. Those companies easily give like 20 mil rewards to their CEOs. And let's not forget "famouse" Battlefront 2. EA said to their investors, that disabling those "necessary" lootboxes will have no impact on the game whatsoever.
    Last edited by Makabreska; 2018-11-21 at 09:15 PM.
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  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Wizard Sanctum View Post
    Not sure what games you played, I didn't have any broken games. I only played good games.
    Now I'm wondering if you're not actually old enough to have played games back in the "Good old days" that you're talking about OR if you're old enough to be having issues remembering that far back.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    Now I'm wondering if you're not actually old enough to have played games back in the "Good old days" that you're talking about OR if you're old enough to be having issues remembering that far back.
    A lot of kids today do the "good old days" nowadays. See: Classic forum.
    They always told me I would miss my family... but I never miss from close range.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Wizard Sanctum View Post
    Not sure what games you played, I didn't have any broken games. I only played good games.
    Yea he's exaggerating. I prefer the model of getting a full game that you've paid for. I think Rock Star has done it best. 60$ for phenomenal single player experiences and then a month later exploit people online.

    In fact I prefer a subscription model. X amount a month to have access to Blizzard games or other games is completely justifiable. A lot of people hate the idea because they love getting shit for free and leeching. But if you can't afford 30-45$ a month in nonstop access to video games then you are not financially sound enough to have the luxury of video games and should instead be concentrating on other aspects of your life.

  14. #54
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    Now I'm wondering if you're not actually old enough to have played games back in the "Good old days" that you're talking about OR if you're old enough to be having issues remembering that far back.
    I am probably older than you are.

    For reference I had a Spectrum ZX (okay those games were pretty buggy, sometimes I couldn't even get them to play)

    Dizzy is like one of my favourite franchises on the ZX. I had them all. And they all worked fine enough. I still would rather a Dizzy than a loot box filled Call of Duty.

    I also had an NES, SNES, Mega Drive and N64.

    Out of all those consoles I don't remember any of them being 'buggy messes', thats not to say they didn't probably have a glitch or issue that was allowed to exploit, like the stair glitch in Mario 64, it wasnt really game breaking in the fact that I could still play the game I wanted anyway. It wasnt taking ME out of the gaming experience.

    I see more bugs and glitches in video games (I mean live services) today than I used to in my day though, and they still charge you a large amount for half a game, then expect you to pay more for extra features.
    Last edited by mmocfb48d32508; 2018-11-21 at 09:21 PM.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Stardrift View Post
    Let loot boxes be. If they make you butthurt, don't purchase them. Or better yet, don't buy the game that has them.

    That's the best way to tell companies loot boxes are unacceptable. Don't even look at their games.

    But I say who cares. Let these companies take advantage of and money from these gambling addicted idiots. They deserve it.
    This is about children and not about grown as men playing video games and become addicted.

  16. #56
    1990-2005: Unlock skin by playing game or entering cheat code
    2006-2010: Unlock skin by paying company us $5
    2011-Present: Unlock skin by paying us $5 for the small chance at receiving the skin you want

    It's hilarious people act like this isn't an issue. Paid skins are one thing, at least you know what you're paying for. Loot boxes are the scum of gaming and I could give a rats ass if they are purely cosmetic or even straight up pay to win. Either way, they are a scummy tactic that will soon die as more governments bring down the hammer.

  17. #57
    Deleted
    I don't see the issue with lootboxes. Especially when you can earn them ingame. Just don't buy them if it bothers you. Besides, cosmetic stuff is so unimportant. I don't even get why people care about skins in Overwatch, when you don't even see your character 99% of the time. I mean it's an FPS...

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    No, but they're not going to make them out of the kindness of their heart either, you don't become a multi-billion dollar company by giving shit away. Either you get Microtransactions or paid expansions, I'll take microtransactions that I don't need to pay for, like OW.
    Microtransaction's are not the issue, How you buy them is.

    If they want to sell a million different versions of a pink hat for $0.99 then I don't care. if they want to sell a loot box where you gamble your money on something you want then I do.

    Sell MTX's but do it without lootbox's.
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  19. #59
    Warchief Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laurah View Post
    I don't see the issue with lootboxes. Especially when you can earn them ingame. Just don't buy them if it bothers you. Besides, cosmetic stuff is so unimportant. I don't even get why people care about skins in Overwatch, when you don't even see your character 99% of the time. I mean it's an FPS...
    Yeee, tell that to for example Riot Games, making big money with skins, or to WoW players going crazy about mythic mounts/armor sets. Looks is VERY important to many players.
    Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing...

  20. #60
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Yeee, tell that to for example Riot Games, making big money with skins, or to WoW players going crazy about mythic mounts/armor sets. Looks is VERY important to many players.
    Not important enough to spend my life's savings on it, and if you can't resist you deserve to be milked. It's actually good. People like that will finance the game so other people will be able to enjoy it for free, or at least have to pay less.

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