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  1. #841
    Quote Originally Posted by Dextroden View Post
    It's mobile with events that favor spending money. But it's mobile tcg, so I guess it's fine.
    I edit my post to explain more but if you will notice its a mobile game I said real card games don't have limited time scam events.

    Quote Originally Posted by Popastique View Post
    Raise kids in a way that will make them feel fucken awful for just thinking about having to steal from their own parents? Good parenting ?
    All kids do stupid shit. And how you going to read their mind and know that they are thinking of stealing from you?
    Last edited by qwerty123456; 2019-07-19 at 06:29 PM.

  2. #842
    Quote Originally Posted by Belize View Post
    Do me a favor, scroll back up, and give me a solution to kids spending money without their parents knowing, because they learnt how credit cards worked from watching them.


    Also tell me how this solves the very common issue of saved payment methods for consoles that both kids and parents use.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Digital TCGs have not inherent value, due to cards being generally untradable, and having the ability to just vanish if the game shuts down, so I'd argue it's not fine.
    And tcg cards worth is entirely driven by collectors. So a card worth $50 now can be worth 10¢ in a month because no one needs it for the meta. Otherwise, it's worthless cardboard. If that's fine, digital cards with no worth are just as fine.

  3. #843
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    Quote Originally Posted by Popastique View Post
    Raise kids in a way that will make them feel fucken awful for just thinking about having to steal from their own parents? Good parenting ?
    You must have been a genius to understand the intricacies of credit cards and that they're real money by age 4.

  4. #844
    Quote Originally Posted by Vash The Stampede View Post
    I have nieces and nephews who will steal credit cards and the gift cards in stores to get Robux for Roblox. My adult cousin used his fathers credit score to get himself credit cards with his name on it, and to this day the debt collectors are after my uncle for payments. Credit card fraud is rampant and easy, so what chance do parents have against their children?
    Such parents have no chances at all. But it is their fault to begin with, so nothing new.

  5. #845
    Quote Originally Posted by Belize View Post
    You must have been a genius to understand the intricacies of credit cards and that they're real money by age 4.
    Some parents actually explain to their children how a credit card isn't a magic money stick.

    Crazy right?

  6. #846
    Quote Originally Posted by Belize View Post
    You must have been a genius to understand the intricacies of credit cards and that they're real money by age 4.
    There were almost no credit cards back when i was 4 ( Ukraine ). And still - i didn't resort to stealing money from my parents, coz they raised me right.

  7. #847
    Quote Originally Posted by Popastique View Post
    Raise kids in a way that will make them feel fucken awful for just thinking about having to steal from their own parents? Good parenting ?
    Well said from someone who has never raised a kid in their life.

    News Flash: Kids do stupid shit all the time...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greevir View Post
    I feel trading card games are no different than lootboxes. If lootboxes are so "cancerous" that they need to be removed, then so do TCGs. Imo, parents simply need to pay attention to their children rather than letting electronics do their job for them.
    TCG's is no different and should have a age gate put on those as well.
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  8. #848
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    There's where we disagree. Extra lives in Candy Crush are provided because the levels are specifically designed to make you waste them and try and pry onto you until you cave in - it's something me and you won't ever do, but uninformed/vulnerable people will do and will end in a downward spiral.
    My response to this would be you can't police life. There are near limitless examples in the world of companies / products that are specifically designed around impulse control. Even going back to something simple as an arcade. You just died? Just insert one token and you can continue! Welcome to MTX, been around for decades.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    My point (which you are free to disagree with) is that the nature of the microtransaction is not something that makes an actual difference in who is to blame. The issue lays in the fact that games are being designed with this in mind, and they are actively trying to exploit the situation knowing well that they are targeting vulnerable people to make money ignoring all negative consequences they are willingly ignoring.
    A game is a product. Nearly all products are designed this way. Nearly every industry will try to generate residual revenue from a purchase.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    My solution is to make all microtransactions disappear. Games worked well without them, expansions are not an issue; DLCs are a kind of grey territory since it's way too easy to merge up a bunch of cosmetics and call it DLC and price it way too much - look at DoA 5 and 6, it's literally a game built for people to buy more than 1k (nearly 2k $ IIRC) in skins and characters. I'm not really against cosmetics shops like in PoE but i'm ready to see them disappear if this means all MTX go away.
    How would you accomplish the bold?

    The issue is there is no realistic legal way to make this happen. There are no legal grounds for banning MTX. At best you can try to regulate the marketing / age of it. It is further complicated by trying to get enough people on board with where on the spectrum of MTX you are. Very few people (as a percentage) are actually calling for the total ban of MTX. You can see that in this thread. Most of the hate MTX gets is either from loot boxes, or P2W mechanics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    To me, someone playing Candy Crush and telling me he needs to buy lives to proceed is simply not smart enough to realize they're milking more money out of him the more time he plays.
    And so that person either needs to seek professional help, or they should not have a credit card at all, or one that can be overdrawn. If Candy Crush didn't exist, they would likely be spending their money on something else, people would deem unnecessary, so you're just kicking the problem down the road to someone else. A person with poor impulse control and no sense of financial management is going to run themselves into a problem. A fool and his money are soon parted.

    Personally:
    - I don't see loot boxes any different than CCG's (Hearthstone, Pokemon, Magic: The Gathering, etc), sports cards, sticker albums, Lego People, etc. For me it's an all or none. If you want to ban loot boxes, please ban all the other stuff as well. I don't think either need a ban. Though a small QoL change would be some sort of loss protection (like dust in Hearthstone)
    - Zero problems with cosmetic MTX
    - No problems with P2W mechanics in a PvE as long as the game isn't impacted without them.
    - I don't like P2W mechanics in PvP, but I tend to just not play those games with them.
    - I think loot boxes in general could be better restricted / marketed. Remove the spectacle from opening them, clearly post odds of everything.
    - Better descriptors on Apps & games about what kind of MTX are available.
    - Option for parental lock on MTX within games
    - The above two points are enough for me for due diligence on the side of the video game companies.
    - App stores should also provide the option to block in game purchases.
    - The ERSB (or whatever local rating board) should do a more thorough review or marketing and mechanics, as well as maybe create a rating for games with MTX.
    - The ERSB should mandate a parental lock on MTX in games if the industry won't.
    - Parents need to pay attention more, and actually play / review games before just handing their kids a device.
    - Parents should also understand the ERSB with regards to the above changes

    One party not discussed in the blame game (people tend to blame parents and/or video game companies) is the credit card companies. They also need to get with the times, and should have options to either limit/block purchases from places, as well as provide options for transaction tracking (like how most companies will email you). This would bypass the problem of someone setting up an account, using their email address but their parents cc number. The parent would still get the email.

    I feel the above changes would eliminate the "What about the children" concerns to a level you can reasonably expect, and give the tools to the parents to actually parent.

    As for the adults, I'm not a fan of blocking the market for 99% because of the problems of 1%. This would be like banning the sale of alcohol, because some people are alcoholics.

  9. #849
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    Well said from someone who has never raised a kid in their life.

    News Flash: Kids do stupid shit all the time...
    Can't wait for a kid like that to just jump off the bridge and someone saying " Kids do stupid shit all the time "
    There is a limit to any *excuse* and kid stealing stuff often is one of them.

    P.S. You should stop the *Well said from someone who has never raised a kid in their life.* record though, it is getting old

  10. #850
    Quote Originally Posted by Popastique View Post
    There were almost no credit cards back when i was 4 ( Ukraine ). And still - i didn't resort to stealing money from my parents, coz they raised me right.
    And yet they raised you to believe that tricking people and scamming them is ok as long as its legal.

  11. #851
    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    And yet they raised you to believe that tricking people and scamming them is ok as long as its legal.
    Where did you get that idea?

  12. #852
    Quote Originally Posted by Popastique View Post
    P.S. You should stop the *Well said from someone who has never raised a kid in their life.* record though, it is getting old
    When you stop with the "Bad Parenting" record ill stop with mine.

    Until then ill keep repeating it cause its true and always very easy to tell who it applies to.
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  13. #853
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    When you stop with the "Bad Parenting" record ill stop with mine.

    Until then ill keep repeating it cause its true and always very easy to tell who it applies to.
    So, who's fault is it when a kid plays a "M for gambling game" on console or mobile?

  14. #854
    Quote Originally Posted by Dextroden View Post
    So, who's fault is it when a kid plays a "M for gambling game" on console or mobile?
    Depends how they got said game...

    You do realize parents can't watch a kid 24/7 right? Its not on the parent if a friend or another family member got them the game without the parent knowing.
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  15. #855
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    Depends how they got said game...

    You do realize parents can't watch a kid 24/7 right? Its not on the parent if a friend or another family member got them the game without the parent knowing.
    Unless the same parents complaining about 3k learned about parental controls, digital download.

    And kids are too stupid to understand the ESRB/PEGI system, so that leaves the parents to blame since it's clearly rated "M for gambling".

  16. #856
    Quote Originally Posted by Dextroden View Post
    Unless the same parents complaining about 3k learned about parental controls, digital download.
    You said Console or Mobile, In the case of Console you can buy physical.....

    so that leaves the parents to blame since it's clearly rated "M for gambling".
    What the fuck are you on about, The game in question is FIFA and is rated E. If it was rated M and parents still bought the game then yes the blame would 100% be on them.

    Until that happens (It would be a AO rating not M) then ESRB and Company's like EA are knowingly exploiting kids with gambling.
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  17. #857
    Gonna go straight into requiring someone to age verify at a 7-11 to buy an in game currency card.

  18. #858
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    You said Console or Mobile, In the case of Console you can buy physical.....



    What the fuck are you on about, The game in question is FIFA and is rated E. If it was rated M and parents still bought the game then yes the blame would 100% be on them.

    Until that happens (It would be a AO rating not M) then ESRB and Company's like EA are knowingly exploiting kids with gambling.
    And people like you would get in the way of physical purchases and you have my respect for that. But a kid who can spend 3k on mtx can easily buy a digital copy of FIFA.

    And LOL. You might get some support for M (which wouldn't fix shit, just make parents more culpable) no one is supporting AO because that's a fucking death sentence in gaming.

    AO games typically don't get shelf space.

  19. #859
    Quote Originally Posted by Dextroden View Post
    And people like you would get in the way of physical purchases and you have my respect for that. But a kid who can spend 3k on mtx can easily buy a digital copy of FIFA.

    And LOL. You might get some support for M (which wouldn't fix shit, just make parents more culpable) no one is supporting AO because that's a fucking death sentence in gaming.

    AO games typically don't get shelf space.
    I'm fine with a M or AO rating, At that point no matter the excuse the blame is on the parent.

    The ESRB won't do it because they would have to give it a AO rating due to it being gambling. Like I've said before tho AAA Company's and the ESRB can keep playing dumb all they want. Governments will just start doing their job for them.
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  20. #860
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    I'm fine with a M or AO rating, At that point no matter the excuse the blame is on the parent.

    The ESRB won't do it because they would have to give it a AO rating due to it being gambling. Like I've said before tho AAA Company's and the ESRB can keep playing dumb all they want. Governments will just start doing their job for them.
    And that's why nothing will change. The game industry isn't taking an L that big because politicians and parents want to be ridiculous and put mtxs next to porn games.

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