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  1. #841
    One thing I've noticed and questioned though is... My Google play (don't know about iTunes) store is set to REQUIRE a password every time I make a purchase, this is default as far as I can tell but can be turned off. Why in God's name would you turn it off, not only for children but for accidental purchases. If you have kids make sure everything requires a password AND DO NOT TELL THEM.

    Also, at least with the play store again, games do announce that they have in game transactions when you download them, best to steer clear of those if you're worried your kids may empty your life's savings

  2. #842
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    It doesn't solve the problems being talked about though, the latest example in this thread didn't involve loot-boxes, Fortnite has also had similar stories of kids spending 1000s on non-surprise transactions.

    We need to look at how the in-game adverts are pushing the MTX, how clear parental controls are for limiting spending and the companies involved - developers, store owners (Google, Apple etc.) and maybe even card issuers (banks) - flagging excessive spending and needing a card-holders response to continue.
    The big thing that's an issue - at least in my mind - is the inability to (easily) get refunds for these transactions, which is where the big problem lies. At least once the parents have failed in their role, that is.

    If a parent goofs up and their kid buys $500 in toys, the parent at least has a safety net. They still need to tighten their shit up, but there's a way for them to not be totally fucked, at least. Not so with these digital transactions. They apparently have to fight tooth and nail to get a refund - if they can get one at all.

    That's where the real problem on the business end is, at least to me.

  3. #843
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    So you're saying they're not just selling shit....they're selling shit that people will want.

    Sure, that's the line for "predatory" now, I guess.
    You're being predatory in your interactions on this board - intent on splitting hairs or removing categorization where it suits you to fit your argument.

    Please get with the program or stay away if you've got nothing of substance to add.
    If you knew the candle was fire then the meal was cooked a long time ago.

  4. #844
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    One thing I've noticed and questioned though is... My Google play (don't know about iTunes) store is set to REQUIRE a password every time I make a purchase, this is default as far as I can tell but can be turned off. Why in God's name would you turn it off, not only for children but for accidental purchases. If you have kids make sure everything requires a password AND DO NOT TELL THEM.
    That's just it, the parents are slavering for convenience, but then don't take steps to protect their children.

    They want it to be as easy as possible for them to just yell, "ALEXA, ORDER MORE DORITOS!!!" and have them appear at the door, but then act shocked and appalled when their children can spend money just as easily when there's no protections at all in place.

  5. #845
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    That's just it, the parents are slavering for convenience, but then don't take steps to protect their children.

    They want it to be as easy as possible for them to just yell, "ALEXA, ORDER MORE DORITOS!!!" and have them appear at the door, but then act shocked and appalled when their children can spend money just as easily when there's no protections at all in place.
    Yea, I'm afraid enough of accidental purchase I would never personally shut something off anyway, it's not that I don't have money, it's that life has taught me value it from the times that I DIDN'T.

  6. #846
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    Yea, I'm afraid enough of accidental purchase I would never personally shut something off anyway, it's not that I don't have money, it's that life has taught me value it from the times that I DIDN'T.
    Yeah, I don't even have kids, but every time a service or app says, "Hey, wanna turn on One-Touch purchases for future convenience?" my brain says, "NO, I WOULD NOT LIKE TO ACCIDENTALLY SPEND MONEY NEXT WEEK, THANKS"

  7. #847
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    And the question is still, as ever, "Why do these people/kids even have access to that much money to blow?"

    These games are essentially vending machines. Do you give a kid your credit card and send them to the vending machine and then bitch when they come back with $500 worth of Snickers bars? No, because that'd make you an idiot, right?

    I mean, how the fuck does your five year old have access to your credit cards?
    Hidden Artifacts is a game that has an age rating of 4+ on iOS.

    Why does a game rated for 4+ even have £3,160's worth of micro-transactions in it?

  8. #848
    Quote Originally Posted by zealo View Post
    Hidden Artifacts is a game that has an age rating of 4+ on iOS.

    Why does a game rated for 4+ even have £3,160's worth of micro-transactions in it?
    If it has a one cent transaction, then you can spend a million dollars if you're determined.

    Which - yet again - is why the responsibility lies with parents to not let their kids have access to that kind of money.

  9. #849
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    If it has a one cent transaction, then you can spend a million dollars if you're determined.

    Which - yet again - is why the responsibility lies with parents to not let their kids have access to that kind of money.
    Why does a game rated 4+ have that amount of micro-transactions allowing users to spend 3000+? Don't dodge the question like this.

  10. #850
    Quote Originally Posted by zealo View Post
    Hidden Artifacts is a game that has an age rating of 4+ on iOS.

    Why does a game rated for 4+ even have £3,160's worth of micro-transactions in it?
    Because people older than 4 who have money play it?

    The arcade down the street doesn't have an age restriction to get in, nor a restriction on the number of tokens you can spend.

  11. #851
    Quote Originally Posted by zealo View Post
    Why does a game rate 4+ have that amount of micro-transactions allowing users to spend 3000+? Don't dodge the question like this.
    I didn't dodge it, I answered it quite simply.

    In this case, it looks like the person was buying extra turns. So yes, even if an extra turn only cost one cent, if they just kept wanting more and more there's no limit to how many times they could buy it, right?

    It's not like they're selling one single thing for $3000 here.

  12. #852
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    Actually it does solve it.

    After putting a 18+ rating on the box, The fault is 100% on the parents. Same as if they bought them GTAV and didn't know there was a sex scene two hours in.

    Label the game as Adults Only and anything beyond that is on the parents.
    So is your concern with kids gambling, or with game companies being responsible for it? Because your solution implies the later.

  13. #853
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    Actually it does solve it.

    After putting a 18+ rating on the box, The fault is 100% on the parents. Same as if they bought them GTAV and didn't know there was a sex scene two hours in.

    Label the game as Adults Only and anything beyond that is on the parents.
    You mean every game with any form of microtransaction or in-app purchase?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by zealo View Post
    Hidden Artifacts is a game that has an age rating of 4+ on iOS.

    Why does a game rated for 4+ even have £3,160's worth of micro-transactions in it?
    Age rating is for the content of the game not its pricing model.

  14. #854
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    Its Both the parents and the company's fault.

    Just because a parent doesn't watch their kid 24/7 that doesn't give a company the right to exploit said kid.

    Fifa is a game rated E, A parent isn't going to think it has gambling in it and therefore the ESRB and other rating systems need to label it as such.

    Edit: Also most stores will stop a kid from using a credit card...
    So card is not okay, but would a kid with a wad of cash be turned down?

    Basically that's the way it is of digital media. I don't agree with the gambling in games to begin with, but playing parental victim ain't doing favors for anyone. Cause that kid with the same card who gets rejected from gambling may not get that pushback if they're just buying products en masse, such as skins.

    Are we seriously saying it's definitely not a responsible parenting to keep closer tabs on their child because somehow, someway, the kid outclasses the parent, buuuut it is up to the company's to react accordingly 24/7 in lieu of it?

    That is like blaming Sonic and GI Joe for not teaching kids to do less drugs in the 90s.
    Last edited by Paraka; 2019-07-16 at 11:23 PM.

  15. #855
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    You mean every game with any form of microtransaction or in-app purchase?
    Sure add those to the list as well.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Paraka View Post
    So card is not okay, but would a kid with a wad of cash be turned down?
    Show me a kid doing this with a wad of cash.

    Hell show me a kid going into a store in general that has a wad of cash and not a parent with them.

    Protip: Your talking to someone who works in retail and not once have I seen a kid come into the store with a wad of cash.

    You have clearly never raised a child...
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  16. #856
    Quote Originally Posted by Krastyn View Post
    I think it is perfectly moral. Keeping up with the Jones's in a video game is no different than keeping up with the Jones's in life.

    My question to you would be, what is your solution, that will hold up in court?
    We could do like cigarettes or any other dangerous yet legal product and place a warning label like anytime you log in that would say something like: " This game contains sinister game mechanics specifically designed to make people spend much more money then they normally would. Studies have shown certain features in this game have been proven to target people with impulse control problems as well as children who don't know any better and can lead to an increased risk in gambling. Play this game at your own risk."

    Also keeping up with the Jones's in a video game is a bit different than real life. When you wanna buy a BMW because your neighbor does you don't have to buy 700 lootboxes of chevy's before you finally get one.
    Last edited by qwerty123456; 2019-07-17 at 01:30 AM.

  17. #857
    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    We could do like cigarettes or any other dangerous yet legal product and place a warning label like anytime you log in that would say something like: " This game contains sinister game mechanics specifically designed to make people spend much more money then they normally would. Studies have shown certain features in this game have been proven to target people with impulse control problems as well as children who don't know any better and can lead to an increased risk in gambling. Play this game at your own risk."
    And that has stopped children / people from smoking? The problem children are going to be problem children.

    To the bold, that is the description of almost every product on the market.

  18. #858
    Quote Originally Posted by Krastyn View Post
    And that has stopped children / people from smoking? The problem children are going to be problem children.

    To the bold, that is the description of almost every product on the market.
    So we should get rid of all laws then? Murderers are just going to keep murdering anyways....

    Laws and warning help prevent more people from doing X.

    And no most products are designed to make money but not 1000 times by having "surprise mechanics".

    A warning like what I said would keep several people away from a game and would put all the blame on the parents. Why don't you want a warning label?

  19. #859
    I'd just ban microtransactions in general for b2p games, ban xpack costs for sub based games, and allow non rng based microtransactions for f2p games.

  20. #860
    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    A warning like what I said would keep several people away from a game and would put all the blame on the parents. Why don't you want a warning label?
    Funny thing is, on the Play Store at least, there is a warning "This APP has in APP purchases"

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