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  1. #1001
    The Insane Acidbaron's Avatar
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    Glad Belgium banned this despicable practice, more places should follow.

    Still consider those football betting games to be a problem also, but games are so easily accessible these days that i consider loot boxes to be actually the worst offender, for the others like bingo machines and such kids would have to go out and hit up gambling bars they aren't allowed in. So there's a greater threshold there and generally people started around their 14 - 15's with those things, loot boxes target far younger kids.

  2. #1002
    Over 9000! Tommo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Temp name View Post
    Thread's about 3 weeks old, but I feel it's relevant enough to revive for this: https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-48925623
    I've been saying for years that online video gaming should have similar restrictions as physical purchases do, in the past when companies weren't as scummy it didnt seem like an issue. But as industries go, its getting worse and worse by the day.

    The fact peoples lives can be completely turned upside down because of psychological tricks and genuine manipulation without any way of seeking justice or recompense, is completely wrong.

    We had the golden age of gaming where it didnt seem so bad, but that isnt here anymore and people need to realise that, gaming is an industry like any other and needs to be regulated so that major abuse doesnt occur.

  3. #1003
    Quote Originally Posted by Logwyn View Post
    The way I deal with this with children in my life is simple. My phone is MY PHONE. Not yours. If you want to play on a phone then get a job and buy yourself one. (Telling an 8-year-old this is pointless but still the truth). Yeah, I get the "why are you being mean? That's not being nice. and they won't hurt anything" all from the parents and grandparents, in-laws, etc. Pffft!!!!

    Then later you'll see their phone with the cracked screen and broken case. Them saying they need a new phone as their precious little darling Hunter dropped in and cracked it or hit it with a hammer. Why don't you get a new one then? They reply I don't have 600-1000 bucks and am waiting on a "free" phone upgrade. I then say well maybe you'll think about giving a 600-1000 dollar device to your 6 years to destroy next time? **Deer in headlights moment**
    Or raise your kid to be respectful of property and be carefull. My now 4 year old has had an ipone/ipad since he was 6 months old. he's never broken it and we make sure he cant buy anything without us oking it :P

  4. #1004
    Quote Originally Posted by Orange Joe View Post
    1 person (mind you they don't show a crowd) from a company(only 2 people in said company) no one has heard of making games no one has heard of speaks for the whole market now?


    Not saying whales aren't a thing but come on.....
    ... but come on, what? What did you expect? A group of triple A company CEO's telling you about this shit instead the usual "Oh we have loot boxes because people find them fun!" sort of bullshit? An actual representative of the entire industry? What the the actual fuck you on about?

  5. #1005
    Over 9000! Vash The Stampede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tommo View Post
    We had the golden age of gaming where it didnt seem so bad, but that isnt here anymore and people need to realise that, gaming is an industry like any other and needs to be regulated so that major abuse doesnt occur.
    I feel we're moving to another gaming industry crash, but that won't happen for a while. Companies do their best to manipulate gamers into what they consider standard practice. But we do need the industry to crash so like the Atari ET, the industry will learn not to continue these awful practices. After the industry crashed we had Nintendo who brought about adventure type games and not score based games. We need something similar with these micro-transactions, but the youth don't play older good games, they play what's popular today. My nieces and nephews can play Roblox but they can't finish the first level in the original Mario Bros. Children at a young age want to be noticed and buying cosmetics from micro-transactions makes them feel special and unique.

  6. #1006
    The Undying Gehco's Avatar
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    But if loot boxes are gambling, I have been wondering, doesn't that make Pokemon cards, or MTG cards gambling too, and have to be handled? Are kinder eggs gambling too then?
    Stuff can be fixed, just get enough glue or duct tape!
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  7. #1007
    The Insane Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myobi View Post
    ... but come on, what? What did you expect? A group of triple A company CEO's telling you about this shit instead the usual "Oh we have loot boxes because people find them fun!" sort of bullshit? An actual representative of the entire industry? What the the actual fuck you on about?
    Triple A? No. but you are posting from a literal nobody. Might as well be random joe walking down the street. I mean if I looked I could probably find another nobody stating the opposite of this guy.
    I have a fan. Seems he was permabanned.

  8. #1008
    Over 9000! Vash The Stampede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    But if loot boxes are gambling, I have been wondering, doesn't that make Pokemon cards, or MTG cards gambling too, and have to be handled? Are kinder eggs gambling too then?
    Pretty much yes. Imagine buying something without knowing exactly what you're getting? That's not right. It flew under the radar for a long time because those who bought them didn't complain. Gaming is difference since plenty of gamers bought games that comes with micro-transactions that they may not want. So thanks to gamers, it helped bring out this despicable practice that's been going on for far too long. That's going to be a big problem for Pokemon since their real money maker is from merchandise and not the actual games.

  9. #1009
    Quote Originally Posted by Vash The Stampede View Post
    I feel we're moving to another gaming industry crash, but that won't happen for a while. Companies do their best to manipulate gamers into what they consider standard practice. But we do need the industry to crash so like the Atari ET, the industry will learn not to continue these awful practices. After the industry crashed we had Nintendo who brought about adventure type games and not score based games. We need something similar with these micro-transactions, but the youth don't play older good games, they play what's popular today. My nieces and nephews can play Roblox but they can't finish the first level in the original Mario Bros. Children at a young age want to be noticed and buying cosmetics from micro-transactions makes them feel special and unique.
    Oh stop, this is such dreck.

    The industry isn't going to crash, it's much larger and more established than it was back then.

    The idea that we had "older, good games" back then is silly, we had just as much - or more - shovelware, buggy games, games that were utter shit, and so on. And you paid top dollar for it.

    The whole, "Can't finish first level in Mario" is a stupid meme and I don't know why you'd think anyone would believe that it's actually a thing.

  10. #1010
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    But if loot boxes are gambling, I have been wondering, doesn't that make Pokemon cards, or MTG cards gambling too, and have to be handled? Are kinder eggs gambling too then?
    You are trying to use EA logic with the kinder egg, its not the same at all. The kinder EGG is a candy every single time. There is no collection to be had. There is no ongoing system that require you to loot kinder eggs. Stuff like fifa on mobile is to the point where you cant actually play the game without rolling slots to buy players. You would have a point if you had to buy a game or have a system where you need your kinder eggs toy to actually do something.

    Pokemon card, MTG, are closer to gambling yes, should also be regulated as such 18+. Lets face the fact tho, its gona be rare you run into a 6 years old buying a MTG pack. They do have one thing over the Video game slot machines and slot machines in general. You always get cards that can be sold or used. In regular slot machine or video game lootboxes, the value of what you gain if you dont get what you want, is always 0, forcing you to buy more of them. If you really want x card in magic or pokemon. You can just straight up buy that card for a sum of money at collectible stores or online. While most loot box game its just comes down to, well keep rolling.

    This goes beyond loot boxes tho, some of those game monetization problem arent just loot boxes. You had game, like the one with the Authist kids, where the game literally force you to buy energy to even play. They make the game a grind that is impossible to play at a confortable amount unless you pay. For someone normal youd just throw the game away and say fuck it. But younger kids and some people are more vulnerable to lose control and just compulsive behavior. Which the industry knows all about and is the whole basis for making such a mechanic in the first place. You are paying for the ability to make the game simply function as an actual game.

    Personally im not against gacha game or loot boxes, some of them are fine. However they should always be advertised as +18, this game contains gambling. I mean the depiction of (casinos) increase rating of movies and video games, why not actual fucking gambling mechanics?

    I play a mobile game named Azur Lane, about collection shipgirls lol. I think that model is fair as long as its marketed 18+. There is gambling for your shipgirls, but at the same time the game doesent stop you from playing and realistically you can get fleet and stuff relativelly quickly just playing normally and not spend any money. Hell spending money doesent really help you that much. You still need to level the ships playing with them and a super rare unleveled ship will get destroyed by a non super rare maxed. Plus youll be swiming in super rare in a matter of days if you play on the shitter every once in a while. But its still gambling. 18+
    Last edited by minteK917; 2019-07-21 at 06:53 PM.

  11. #1011
    Quote Originally Posted by Vash The Stampede View Post
    If companies wanted to be fair about their micro-transactions and loot boxes then they should allow the very talented community to make assets as well. For free, not paid for because we know how well that worked out for Bethesda. They won't, because the community stuff would compete against their in game store. Look at what someone did with Judgement armor from World of Warcraft. I don't think Blizzard even has that kind of talent working for them. I would totally rock that over whatever micro-transaction loot box crap they sell in game. Don't care what game it is, that's my skin of choice.
    You can have paid community micro transactions you just need to do it right like Warframe:

    https://www.pcgamer.com/how-a-strugg...arframe-scarf/

  12. #1012
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    Yeah, no.

    The fact is that actual underage gambling in the gaming community has been an issue for years now. But no one gave a fuck. Honestly, it seems like it has barely been touched.

    Meanwhile, whiny bastards raise a stink over "loot boxes" and suddenly it's an issue? And they want to try to make loot boxes seem worse by tying them to the issue of actual underage gambling while not actually giving a fuck about that?

    Eh. It's a stupid topic driven by stupidity. Get back to me when someone starts cracking down on underage betting on events using virtual items/currency as a proxy for real money, for example. Until then, this is just bullshit.
    I disagree with the reasoning as to why people raised their pitchforks on this topic. I understand what you are trying to say, but I think it has more to do with people being unaware of the gambling issue before. Then they started playing games like FIFA where it was like they were being beaten with a bat over the ridiculous levels of gambling.This opens their eyes to just how bad this is for society.

    Now are they doing it just for the children? No, probably not. Most likely they look at this as the biggest chance to win the argument, but that doesn't mean they don't care about children gambling. I think that is a pretty pessimistic perspective.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    So basically wasting Gov't money on something inconsequential. I don't really see an issue with them under 2 circumstances: You can earn them for free in game, and they are purely cosmetic. This is becoming the sugar battle, or the cigarette battle, gov't is getting too involved in how people choose to live their lives.
    If you read the OP post you would see there is a direct correlation between loot boxes (and similar) and real life gambling. You say it is inconsequential, but addiction never is. Addiction by definition means that you cannot pull yourself away from it. Take someone who smokes as an example. The majority of them when asked will tell you that they do not want to smoke. If it wasn't for the addiction, then they would never do it. Almost always though, there was something that got them into it. Whether that be peer pressure, 2nd hand smoke from parents or siblings, or other forms, it wasn't a conscious decision to start smoking because it looks like fun. The same can be said about real life gambling addictions. Children are not informed well enough on these topics at that age to be able to just say no. My son, as an example, loves to play roblox. As long as he completes his chores and has overall good behavior he gets $5 worth of roblox a week to spend on whatever he wants. The point being to teach him that he has earned this, not that it is simply given to him. Now, what he does with it is up to him, as long as it does not include any kind of gambling. He has tried before in the past to make those kinds of roblox purchases and it turned out badly where he constantly asked for more and more. He didn't understand why, but he was developing an addiction to this. Now, he has learned more about it, but I am honestly afraid to let him play other games that target children of his age because of this. It is gross, and when the industry itself cannot self-regulate, and 80% of the parents do not understand it enough to teach their children about it, it needs regulation from the state or federal.

  13. #1013
    Quote Originally Posted by aviger View Post
    Or raise your kid to be respectful of property and be carefull. My now 4 year old has had an ipone/ipad since he was 6 months old. he's never broken it and we make sure he cant buy anything without us oking it :P
    The thing is, even if he can't buy anything, you shouldn't have to be explaining difficult concepts like psychological manipulation, gambling, etc. to a 4 year old. And if you are still letting him play those MTX-filled games it's still setting a bad precedent of instant-gratification, sudden endorphin rushes, etc.

  14. #1014
    Quote Originally Posted by stellvia View Post
    The thing is, even if he can't buy anything, you shouldn't have to be explaining difficult concepts like psychological manipulation, gambling, etc. to a 4 year old. And if you are still letting him play those MTX-filled games it's still setting a bad precedent of instant-gratification, sudden endorphin rushes, etc.
    You sound like those people who say "playing violent games makes people violent!". No, as long as the kid can understand the concept there's nothing wrong with letting them play those "mtx filled games", you don't even know WHAT they're letting them play and are making that assumption.

  15. #1015
    I am Murloc! Usagi Senshi's Avatar
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    Imagine going the arcade back in 1998 and you plop a few quarters into Marvel vs Capcom. You end up spending around $5 on the game and you've had your fill and you move on to that Neo Geo cabinet for a few games of Metal Slug 2 and Pulstar. You don't own the games and happily paid for what you felt was worth it.

    Now imagine that you picked up Marvel vs Capcom for your Dreamcast back in Oct 1999 (like I did) and then having to pay Capcom 25 cents per continue after your $40 purchase.

    That's what these scumlords are doing nowadays but being more sly about it unless you have waaaaay too much free time. Now most AAA games are designed like Korean MMOs in which you can grind out everything over several hundred hours or pay for the exp boost (that brings it back to how shit used to be before this nonsense) or get lucky with that rare item unlock that you might unlock after 20-80 hours.

    Used to be able to buy a game and unlocked everything at reasonable times after 1-2 weeks of casual play or 2-3 days if really determined. Luckily almost all Nintendo, Sony, AA, Japanese AA, and indie titles still act like how normal games used to be.

    "Waaaaaaah, the huge gaming mega corp isn't getting shit loads of free money anymore. I must defend their honor!"

    Fuck em, let them die on that if that's what it takes
    Tikki tikki tembo, Usagi no Yojimbo, chari bari ruchi pip peri pembo!

  16. #1016
    Quote Originally Posted by Usagi Senshi View Post
    Used to be able to buy a game and unlocked everything at reasonable times after 1-2 weeks of casual play or 2-3 days if really determined. Luckily almost all Nintendo, Sony, AA, Japanese AA, and indie titles still act like how normal games used to be.
    That's a little delusional, specially on the Japanese thing.

    Games back in the day used to take MUCH longer to complete 100% and most games nowadays that aren't online MMO's or multiplayer only, like Div 2 an the like, aren't filled with anything of the sort you mention.

    EA has had some questionable things, but generally their single player is untouched, ACO from Ubi is the only one that is full single player that has P2W mechanics.

    You look at any recent single player game and they're no different then they were back in the day, just shorter maybe.

  17. #1017
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    Games back in the day used to take MUCH longer to complete 100% and most games nowadays that aren't online MMO's or multiplayer only, like Div 2 an the like, aren't filled with anything of the sort you mention.
    I disagree most older games (NES, Genesis era) were platformers or Platformer/Space Shooters which were easier and faster to 100% especially if you knew what you were doing.

    These days some of the most popular Triple A titles have vast Open Worlds with plenty of Side Quests,Collectibles, and sometimes Mini Games which are a much bigger Time Sink then plenty of older games.
    Last edited by szechuan; 2019-07-21 at 11:46 PM.
    Americans are the Chinese of the west. The main reason people tolerate them is because they are too big to ignore.

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  18. #1018
    The Undying Gehco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by minteK917 View Post
    You are trying to use EA logic with the kinder egg, its not the same at all. The kinder EGG is a candy every single time. There is no collection to be had. There is no ongoing system that require you to loot kinder eggs. Stuff like fifa on mobile is to the point where you cant actually play the game without rolling slots to buy players. You would have a point if you had to buy a game or have a system where you need your kinder eggs toy to actually do something.

    Pokemon card, MTG, are closer to gambling yes, should also be regulated as such 18+. Lets face the fact tho, its gona be rare you run into a 6 years old buying a MTG pack. They do have one thing over the Video game slot machines and slot machines in general. You always get cards that can be sold or used. In regular slot machine or video game lootboxes, the value of what you gain if you dont get what you want, is always 0, forcing you to buy more of them. If you really want x card in magic or pokemon. You can just straight up buy that card for a sum of money at collectible stores or online. While most loot box game its just comes down to, well keep rolling.

    This goes beyond loot boxes tho, some of those game monetization problem arent just loot boxes. You had game, like the one with the Authist kids, where the game literally force you to buy energy to even play. They make the game a grind that is impossible to play at a confortable amount unless you pay. For someone normal youd just throw the game away and say fuck it. But younger kids and some people are more vulnerable to lose control and just compulsive behavior. Which the industry knows all about and is the whole basis for making such a mechanic in the first place. You are paying for the ability to make the game simply function as an actual game.

    Personally im not against gacha game or loot boxes, some of them are fine. However they should always be advertised as +18, this game contains gambling. I mean the depiction of (casinos) increase rating of movies and video games, why not actual fucking gambling mechanics?

    I play a mobile game named Azur Lane, about collection shipgirls lol. I think that model is fair as long as its marketed 18+. There is gambling for your shipgirls, but at the same time the game doesent stop you from playing and realistically you can get fleet and stuff relativelly quickly just playing normally and not spend any money. Hell spending money doesent really help you that much. You still need to level the ships playing with them and a super rare unleveled ship will get destroyed by a non super rare maxed. Plus youll be swiming in super rare in a matter of days if you play on the shitter every once in a while. But its still gambling. 18+
    I used kinder egg as an example for there IS a collection to be had. The toy inside sometimes comes in seasons or limited production. Trust me. As a father, I have experienced the wrath when it wasn't the 'right' toy..
    Stuff can be fixed, just get enough glue or duct tape!
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  19. #1019
    The Unstoppable Force Queen of Hamsters's Avatar
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    Predatory systems put in place by game developers are what they are and should 100% be outlawed, but... How the actual fuck are kids able to access the funds of their parents...?
    My sister is 24 and when she tried to access my mom's debit card to buy a treatment at a salon, she couldn't... because mom wouldn't share her security code (the card was taken without her knowledge)...

    And yet here we have kids spending thousands of parent cash on "surprise mechanics"...? One guy was 9 and had spent 2000 euro in one swoop in Fortnite using his parents card...
    I am very rarely active on MMO-C atm, as I've said whenever being called a "fanboy/girl", when I'm not happy with Blizzard's product, I'll actually move away from it and withhold my spending as a sign of my dislike. Funny how X posters don't seem capable of doing the same.

  20. #1020
    Quote Originally Posted by Queen of Hamsters View Post
    Predatory systems put in place by game developers are what they are and should 100% be outlawed, but... How the actual fuck are kids able to access the funds of their parents...?

    Plenty of CC's don't require a security code.
    Americans are the Chinese of the west. The main reason people tolerate them is because they are too big to ignore.

    Bill Nye is not the GOP type of guy. He is a science guy. Trumpers think science is a lie.

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