(Loot Box's) Number of child gamblers quadruples in just two years....

[Onikaroshi]

That's a very poor reason not to legislate against something. By the same logic you can argue that most laws don't matter, because if someone really wants to do something harmful they can almost always find a way to do it somehow. There has to be a point at which you draw a line and decide something is harmful enough that a law would help to protect people from it. The more evidence that emerges against lootboxes, the more likely it is that governments are going to end up drawing that line somewhere.

It's worth mentioning that a lot of mobile games have been in the spotlight in recent years too. Legislation has slowly been passed in a lot of places around the world to restrict the more predatory elements of the industry, but as with any modern laws dealing with new technology, it's a slow and ongoing process.

I'm always of the belief that if someone wants to kill themselves (cigs, sugar, etc) or gamble their money away, or anything similar, let them do it, it's not the gov't job to keep them from that, it's the gov't's job to make laws to punish people who do things that affect other people. Gamble all your money away till you're living in a cardboard box on the street? Fine. Steal money from someone cause you need to gamble? That's where the laws are.

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You don't make a free to play game because you're a good person. Just like Blizzard isn't updating Overwatch consistently without expansions or passes or subscription because they are your friend. It is because the profits are astronomical. AAA games are made by companies all the time and the box sales more than justify the salaries and equipment it cost to produce the game. The defense of rising production costs is disingenuous.

Yes, they cover the cost of PRODUCING the game, but not maintaining it. Loot boxes is a small price to pay for new maps, heroes, updates, etc all being released.

[Coombs]

Yes, they cover the cost of PRODUCING the game, but not maintaining it. Loot boxes is a small price to pay for new maps, heroes, updates, etc all being released.

Bullshit. A billion dollar corporation starting a new franchise isn't on the brink of not being able to pay the insignificant salaries of the Overwatch team. To continue to produce a few heroes, maps, and skins each year certainly costs money, but lootbox design is meant to maximize profits, not to keep the lights on.

[Stardrift]

Let loot boxes be. If they make you butthurt, don't purchase them. Or better yet, don't buy the game that has them.

That's the best way to tell companies loot boxes are unacceptable. Don't even look at their games.

But I say who cares. Let these companies take advantage of and money from these gambling addicted idiots. They deserve it.

[Jtbrig7390]

Yes, they cover the cost of PRODUCING the game, but not maintaining it. Loot boxes is a small price to pay for new maps, heroes, updates, etc all being released.

This is such a pile of shit.

Multi-Billion dollar company's are not going bankrup to make you maps. You can get that shit without the gambling box's.

[Onikaroshi]

Bullshit. A billion dollar corporation starting a new franchise isn't on the brink of not being able to pay the insignificant salaries of the Overwatch team. To continue to produce a few heroes, maps, and skins each year certainly costs money, but lootbox design is meant to maximize profits, not to keep the lights on.

Would rather have that then forced paid expansions like the Division or the like, since you don't need to participate if you don't want to, you get everything from playing.

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This is such a pile of shit.

Multi-Billion dollar company's are not going bankrup to make you maps. You can get that shit without the gambling box's.

No, but they're not going to make them out of the kindness of their heart either, you don't become a multi-billion dollar company by giving shit away. Either you get Microtransactions or paid expansions, I'll take microtransactions that I don't need to pay for, like OW.

[plagueshard801]

I'm willing to bet more kids are addicted to Fortnite vbucks right now than loot boxes.

[Wondercrab]

I'm always of the belief that if someone wants to kill themselves (cigs, sugar, etc) or gamble their money away, or anything similar, let them do it, it's not the gov't job to keep them from that, it's the gov't's job to make laws to punish people who do things that affect other people. Gamble all your money away till you're living in a cardboard box on the street? Fine. Steal money from someone cause you need to gamble? That's where the laws are.

I generally agree with the sentiment, but then you get into the ballpark of people with mental health issues (or children) and companies that target them in a predatory fashion. Malicious and exploitative things are still going on. You can take a "survival of the fittest" approach to it, but I think most people would err on the side of compassion and say that someone doesn't deserve to be exploited just because they're not well-adjusted (or old) enough to see it coming. Things like the gambling industry have proven how businesses can ruin lives just as easily and unpleasantly as common thieves when left to their own devices, and that's why it's sometimes appropriate for the law to step in. Obviously there's a sliding scale between anarchy and wrapping everyone in cotton wool, but things like the report in the OP are why lootbox legislation is slowly being pushed from one side of that spectrum to the other.

[Onikaroshi]

I generally agree with the sentiment, but then you get into the ballpark of people with mental health issues (or children) and companies that target them in a predatory fashion. Malicious and exploitative things are still going on. You can take a "survival of the fittest" approach to it, but I think most people would err on the side of compassion and say that someone doesn't deserve to be exploited just because they're not well-adjusted (or old) enough to see it coming. Things like the gambling industry have proven how businesses can ruin lives just as easily and unpleasantly as common thieves when left to their own devices, and that's why it's sometimes appropriate for the law to step in. Obviously there's a sliding scale between anarchy and wrapping everyone in cotton wool, but things like the report in the OP are why lootbox legislation is slowly being pushed from one side of that spectrum to the other.

I just worry that those of us who don't have issues are going to end up worse off. They keep killing companies forms of revenue and we're going to end up with either A) forced expansion payments all the time, or b) just lack of updates in general.

[valax]

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-46286945







Don't believe loot box's are gambling, Well that doesn't matter because its reaching a point where more and more governments do because they are. More and more reports like this coming out will cause the government to step in.

Don't want the government in the video game industry then people need to start boycotting these and AAA publishers need to remove them.

Fix your problems or the government will force you to fix them.

Millionaire companies implementing and developing around loot boxes are always disgusting , but as a parent giving your kid the ability to buy stuff in app is also a failure IMO .

[Zoldor]

sadly lootboxes are trash, but to young new gamers they are the norm and that sucks. Means they got em hooked early so they'll pay and play for their entire lives most likely. Being an older gen gamer that started really early, I hate loot boxes, and the only time I end up buy any is usually really drunk and have disposable cash. So I've spent in my entire game life maybe $100 bucks on random loot box things. And I think that was a solid 3 purchases.

I hate slot machine gambling. I worked in the gambling industry for five years and that was totally enough to completely put me off that shit. Gambling addicts rank up there with meth addicts when it comes to just insane delusion and putting themselves and their lively hood at risk.

[Coombs]

I just worry that those of us who don't have issues are going to end up worse off. They keep killing companies forms of revenue and we're going to end up with either A) forced expansion payments all the time, or b) just lack of updates in general.

You're just worried that legislation will come along and prevent companies from exploiting consumers and taking away your free ride? Got it. We've gone from "production is expensive" to "I just want all the goodies for free".

[Drungan]

Seen a few people here comparing loot boxes to lottery tickets ..... Loot boxes can not be compared atall ....

Lottery : is regulated and you know the odds

Loot boxes : not regulated in any way and you have 0 idea of the odds, with the right software the program could know what you are after and how much you are likely to try and get it, this is tools we know activision got ( and thereby also blizzard )

lets use Overwatch as example ....

The *game * knows you play x hero most ... it also knows what skins you already got and what amount of money you used to get it, what is stopping Blizz from making that one skin you are missing the one you never get from a box ? ...sure you might over time get enough doublicates to buy it for ingame gold but at that point you used 40 bucks on boxes as the skin is limited time only .....

sure i might need a tinfoil hat but really ...can you not see them do this ?

Edit: if they wanted money for the stuff in loot boxes they could just sell it .... lets say skins in overwatch for 5 bucks .... but no ..there is far more money in the gambling element.

[Nurasu]

You're just worried that legislation will come along and prevent companies from exploiting consumers and taking away your free ride? Got it. We've gone from "production is expensive" to "I just want all the goodies for free".

I'd be curious what the dollar amounts are of kids buying lootboxes vs. kids buying every $40 Sims pack that comes out. There isn't a business model in existence that is 100% consumer-friendly.

[Onikaroshi]

I'd be curious what the dollar amounts are of kids buying lootboxes vs. kids buying every $40 Sims pack that comes out. There isn't a business model in existence that is 100% consumer-friendly.

That's more exploitative then loot boxes. Loot boxes for cosmetics are a much better approach then "you can't access this part of the game unless you pay". You don't NEED to buy loot boxes, you can earn them 100% in game, easily. If they were not earnable that would more of an issue.

[Nurasu]

That's more exploitative then loot boxes. Loot boxes for cosmetics are a much better approach then "you can't access this part of the game unless you pay". You don't NEED to buy loot boxes, you can earn them 100% in game, easily. If they were not earnable that would more of an issue.

I agree 100%. I vastly prefer the loot box model, where you get the entire game and have the option to purchase additional cosmetics. Even if they were not earnable in game, I think it's more consumer friendly than EA's half-completed games with paywalls for the rest of the content. I just think everyone gets hung up on loot boxes when there are already worse models out there that we can look at.

[Onikaroshi]

I agree 100%. I vastly prefer the loot box model, where you get the entire game and have the option to purchase additional cosmetics. Even if they were not earnable in game, I think it's more consumer friendly than EA's half-completed games with paywalls for the rest of the content. I just think everyone gets hung up on loot boxes when there are already worse models out there that we can look at.

In terms of "consumer unfriendliness" I'd probably rate it Fremium mobile games>Day one DLC>First/Second year DLC>Loot Boxes, no one can argue that mobile games exist currently to exploit the players, but far too many people don't see an issue with day one or first year DLC, that's what they should be making laws against, selling incomplete games for full price.

[Deleted]

Lootboxes are f*****g s**t and need to go away as soon as possible. Publishers and Game Studios need to make the grand cash by selling quality games that everybody wants to play again, not by screwing minors with loot boxes "hello Animal Crossing Pocket Camp^^"

[exochaft]

Millionaire companies implementing and developing around loot boxes are always disgusting , but as a parent giving your kid the ability to buy stuff in app is also a failure IMO .

I think the parenting part is the more important aspect, as a general "checks and balances" approach to activities that may be unsafe to children should start with the parents... I mean, it is your job as a parent to provide for your kid, keep them safe, and educate them. Don't recall buying loot boxes and lottery tickets ever being part of the "necessities" of life. Despite the increased chance of exposure to such activites, kids generally will not have access to funds that allow them to access these activities (on top of gambling activities being illegal below a certain age in most places). Sure, there are some kids who can get their funds through a variety of methods and activities, but for the age group specified they'd be in the vast minority. The likely way such behavior is fostered is because the parents let it happen.

[Wondercrab]

I just worry that those of us who don't have issues are going to end up worse off. They keep killing companies forms of revenue and we're going to end up with either A) forced expansion payments all the time, or b) just lack of updates in general.

That's more of a problem of the AAA industry's own making right now. It's relatively easy for a game to be profitable and receive continued ongoing support, the problem is that many AAA companies are answerable to shareholders who only want to see the company keep growing year by year. It doesn't matter if Overwatch, CoD, or Fifa are making more than enough money to justify ongoing development -- because if they're not continually making even *more* money then that's a failure in the shareholders' eyes. Parts of the AAA industry right now are stuck in a bubble that's going to inevitably burst when the demand for ever-increasing profits can't keep up with the realities of game development. There are plenty of games out there that get ongoing updates without the need to charge for anything more than an up front box price or some very mild additional purchases. The idea that the people putting lootboxes in games need to do so in order to keep development going is a myth -- the reason they need those lootboxes is to keep their shareholders happy by showing increased growth year on year.

It's very telling that the majority of the AAA game companies who implement these systems are the ones who always make the most ludicrous profits off their games in the first place, not the smaller studios that struggle to stay afloat project by project.

[Onikaroshi]

I think the parenting part is the more important aspect, as a general "checks and balances" approach to activities that may be unsafe to children should start with the parents... I mean, it is your job as a parent to provide for your kid, keep them safe, and educate them. Don't recall buying loot boxes and lottery tickets ever being part of the "necessities" of life. Despite the increased chance of exposure to such activites, kids generally will not have access to funds that allow them to access these activities (on top of gambling activities being illegal below a certain age in most places). Sure, there are some kids who can get their funds through a variety of methods and activities, but for the age group specified they'd be in the vast minority. The likely way such behavior is fostered is because the parents let it happen.

That's another point entirely, if you look around nowadays nothing is the "parent's fault". Back when I was growing up and before that (32 years old) you didn't see kids running around restaurants, much less government buildings. We went to change my wife's name at the dmv after we got married, and there were like 3 kids just running circles in there while the parents just sat on their phones. No one holds them responsible for anything anymore, just drug the kids up and let them do whatever now. If I was doing that I would have gotten smacked and not see anything but the inside of my room for awhile.

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That's more of a problem of the AAA industry's own making right now. It's relatively easy for a game to be profitable and receive continued ongoing support, the problem is that many AAA companies are answerable to shareholders who only want to see the company keep growing year by year. It doesn't matter if Overwatch, CoD, or Fifa are making more than enough money to justify ongoing development -- because if they're not continually making even *more* money then that's a failure in the shareholders' eyes. Parts of the AAA industry right now are stuck in a bubble that's going to inevitably burst when the demand for ever-increasing profits can't keep up with the realities of game development. There are plenty of games out there that get ongoing updates without the need to charge for anything more than an up front box price or some very mild additional purchases. The idea that the people putting lootboxes in games need to do so in order to keep development going is a myth -- the reason they need those lootboxes is to keep their shareholders happy by showing increased growth year on year.

It's very telling that the majority of the AAA game companies who implement these systems are the ones who always make the most ludicrous profits off their games in the first place, not the smaller studios that struggle to stay afloat project by project.

You're not wrong, I mean, look at how ActiBlizz talked about wow at the last earnings call, something like showing a continued increase in "value addon service". Problem is, very few GOOD indie games in the styles I like.