View Poll Results: Should Holy get a rework?

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  • No

    89 29.37%
  • Yes

    214 70.63%
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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Absintheminded View Post
    Melee and Judgment has practically always been a staple of Hpal, namely for Judgment/seal effects, as well as holy power when that's been a thing. First and foremost, we should be able to choose debuffs and beneficial effects for things such as extra holy damage or heals on attacks, and Mana/health on attacks.

    IMO, the master should be taken one step further and have splash heals on damage done and remove proximity bonuses.
    You are kind of exchanging one gimmick for the next tho. Even with a full damage focused skill and "rotation" the healing would not be enough unless our damage was buffed. This just won't work i believe.

    What we need is a proper group healing ability and a raid cooldown that is not a joke.
    If you are offended by something i said, im probably at least 45% sorry about it and there is a 3% Chance it was not on purpose!

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  2. #122
    I am Murloc! dacoolist's Avatar
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    as a weak AF hpal, I think we need a rework indeed ;D

  3. #123
    My real issue is the mastery. In half the fights the mastery is useless.
    Hail Lilith and see you in Hell!

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    My real issue is the mastery. In half the fights the mastery is useless.
    In all the fights... But thats the thing, isn't it? Compare it to that of everyone else.
    If you are offended by something i said, im probably at least 45% sorry about it and there is a 3% Chance it was not on purpose!

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  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by SoundOfGuns View Post
    You are kind of exchanging one gimmick for the next tho. Even with a full damage focused skill and "rotation" the healing would not be enough unless our damage was buffed. This just won't work i believe.

    What we need is a proper group healing ability and a raid cooldown that is not a joke.
    Every button you push is a gimmick. Besides,you shouldn't worry about numbers, that would be a tuning thing and the amount of damage you do and heals it procs does not need to be 1:1.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ~Valen~ View Post
    It was an actual spell in WoTLK.
    Doh, forgot about that!

  6. #126
    Holy and Ret should got reworked. 2 bad specs at the moment

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Absintheminded View Post
    Every button you push is a gimmick. Besides,you shouldn't worry about numbers, that would be a tuning thing and the amount of damage you do and heals it procs does not need to be 1:1.
    A gimmick is by definition something that is as flashy or unique as possible with no practical use. I would argue that your general healing spell has a very logical purpose. Having a mastery that determines the amount of healing based on your position to the target is not only entirely pointless but actually counter-intuitive game design unless you are one of those lazy fuckers who is fine standing with your head leaned against the boss while snoring.

    You are also evidently either so uninvolved (thus not a Heal-Paladin) that you don't give a shit of the Holy-Paladin is pretty much screwed at the moment or you are... entirely clueless, im sorry. I shouldn't worry about numbers? Nobody is talking about minor distances here. Its about lacking the ability to competitively aid your raid in certain boss fights without doing four times the work while "competitively" does not even mean outright dominating but just properly keeping up. How can i have the same amount of healing or less as the Preists and Shamans in my mythic raid with an average parsing of 90% in the logs while these classes sit there with 45 to 50? Thats far far beyond "not needing to be 1:1... Its also not a point of discussion where this comes from. Its very clearly caused by the lack of group healing on our ends.

    For mythic+ this is all fine and dandy, but Raids don't work like your silly little m15-keys. ...they also don't require large scale group healing.
    If you are offended by something i said, im probably at least 45% sorry about it and there is a 3% Chance it was not on purpose!

    Victim to Blizzard-Marketing since 2004

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by ThiagoTorres View Post
    Holy and Ret should got reworked. 2 bad specs at the moment
    Ret is perfectly fine and middle of the pack? I mean it's not Outlaw, but it's not bad by any stretch of the imagination.

  9. #129
    Brewmaster Demsi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amera View Post
    Ret is perfectly fine and middle of the pack? I mean it's not Outlaw, but it's not bad by any stretch of the imagination.
    I think he's talking about a gameplay perspective, not performance.

    And ret could certainly use some looking at

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by Demsi View Post
    I think he's talking about a gameplay perspective, not performance.

    And all classes could certainly use some looking at
    Fixed for you.

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by SoundOfGuns View Post
    A gimmick is by definition something that is as flashy or unique as possible with no practical use. I would argue that your general healing spell has a very logical purpose. Having a mastery that determines the amount of healing based on your position to the target is not only entirely pointless but actually counter-intuitive game design unless you are one of those lazy fuckers who is fine standing with your head leaned against the boss while snoring.

    You are also evidently either so uninvolved (thus not a Heal-Paladin) that you don't give a shit of the Holy-Paladin is pretty much screwed at the moment or you are... entirely clueless, im sorry. I shouldn't worry about numbers? Nobody is talking about minor distances here. Its about lacking the ability to competitively aid your raid in certain boss fights without doing four times the work while "competitively" does not even mean outright dominating but just properly keeping up. How can i have the same amount of healing or less as the Preists and Shamans in my mythic raid with an average parsing of 90% in the logs while these classes sit there with 45 to 50? Thats far far beyond "not needing to be 1:1... Its also not a point of discussion where this comes from. Its very clearly caused by the lack of group healing on our ends.

    For mythic+ this is all fine and dandy, but Raids don't work like your silly little m15-keys. ...they also don't require large scale group healing.
    Let me be brief: Don't be a fucking dick. I'm not even defending the current mastery. I suggested it should be changed to splash heals on damage done. My only suggestion now is for you to go outside for a while and breath in some fresh air. Relax a little bit. Stop being a cunt.

  12. #132
    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Demsi View Post
    I think he's talking about a gameplay perspective, not performance.

    And ret could certainly use some looking at
    exatly

    As i can see almost all classes are completly boring to play, thanks to class simplifications, removed alot of iconic skills and mechanical changes was so lazy

  13. #133
    its ok just play glimmer you scrubs
    Last edited by bruhmoment; 2019-04-04 at 10:34 AM.

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by bruhmoment View Post
    its ok just play glimmer you scrubs
    I don't really consider this to be a "Fix" in any appreciable way - It's a temporary workaround for some of the flaws with the spec right now. A bad one, that requires you to have very specific gear with the trait on for it to work in any meaningful way.

    The trait itself may not exist come 8.2, so who knows where that is going to leave it going forwards. No, if the class is to be reworked it needs to be at a class mechanics level, not through Azerite. It needs to play well in absense of traits, not with one trait stacked exclusively.

  15. #135
    I find shockadin to be very entertaining (if draining to play as raid healer). I have alts, and I always go back to Shock. Honestly, up until recently I've been afraid of nerfs incoming because of how strong Holy feels to me right now, compared to other classes. The only issue I really have with it is how reliant it is on secondaries to function properly and the lack of upgrades obtainable from raids (it's not that strong in M+ either).

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryZebra View Post
    I don't really consider this to be a "Fix" in any appreciable way - It's a temporary workaround for some of the flaws with the spec right now. A bad one, that requires you to have very specific gear with the trait on for it to work in any meaningful way.

    The trait itself may not exist come 8.2, so who knows where that is going to leave it going forwards. No, if the class is to be reworked it needs to be at a class mechanics level, not through Azerite. It needs to play well in absense of traits, not with one trait stacked exclusively.
    I agree, and I think the fact it's blatantly overpowered to the point it has few weaknesses is influencing opinions a little. Realistically right now all we can hope for after it's nerfed is that the 8.2 heartifact tree gives us a lot more going on and they actually take forward what works well into the next expansion with other much needed changes, but that's kind of a lot to ask for huh.

  17. #137
    I know this might raise some eyebrows.... But, you ask for a rework, and you receive an azerite talent on a piece of gear that revamps the play style. Then you proceed to discuss how it's just going to be nerfed, and there's practically no point in worrying about it. Then you say we need AOE healing like the other classes. Which then begs the question why are you playing holy at all? I completely agree that our mastery is super lack luster. Then you beg for the old to come back, and say the class isn't fun now. When back then I'm sure people were unhappy with the state of Holy. There will always be those that can't be pleased.
    Why did I vote Yes for the rework... I'm sure you weren't expecting that. Though, I do agree the class without the glimmer talent is completely hollow. The only active thing that happens is the infusion. I understand that the glimmer build may need some adjustments, and some people hate the idea. But, follow me on this. What makes a class enjoyable? The potential for you to get better at it, and the break through moments that the player feels like they accomplished something. The class currently has none of that, unless you find yourself smacking the boss to proc your HS CDs and your screen looks like a holy light show. Once again I understand that there are people that do not like the build. I'm not sure of their reasoning, but I can promise you. It will grow on you if you give it a chance. I don't know anything about game balancing, but why not incorporate glimmer into divine purpose? I know the numbers will need adjusting, like put a cap on how many people can have that buff. Then we have our own unique "AOE" healing. That talent is what brought me back to the class with excitement. I want to thank Blizzard for letting this be something we can try out and give feed back.
    Then on to our mastery. Why not make it more impactful? Instead of law making it go further, how about shorter and the impact more dramatic. You could have a mini king Anduin bubble to show distance (though it's very akin to the disc bubble, I guess there's always crossover). Then get this, since you are a "melee" healer, the melee players could huddle up under it. It's dynamic, neat to watch, and interactive. Or ... While it's active, anyone in it is healed like your beacon.
    Once again, there's a ton of crazy nuances that I don't see. All I can say is, we should be excited about things like the glimmer build. Because if we aren't, why should Blizzard invest in creating new and fun playstyles for old classes? That have players that are set in their, "why don't we return to how it was in WOTLK?" Please understand, I don't intend to offend; but hey sometimes you gotta rock the boat to see some waves.
    I will reiterate, that I don't understand a lot of the nuances of the game, nor am I trying to tell Blizzard how to do their job. But, hopefully my comment card hidden umongst the other thousands of slips of paper stirs some creative genius.

    P.S. thank you Blizzard for glimmer, you brought a dead paladin back to life.

  18. #138
    My idea is to make it first melee healer. All spells are instant but some of them have melee range. Everything is cooldown based.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...lopment-thread
    Quote Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post
    If you are suggesting to take my Night Elfs Shadowmeld away, then please find some pike to run yourself through, tyvm.

  19. #139
    whole WoW needs a rework

  20. #140
    I stopped playing sometime in Warlords, came back this week for kicks... and the healing basically plays identical.

    Really didn't feel like anything really changed. All in all, kinda miss Cata healing at this point, at least it felt different.

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