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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by MrCool View Post
    Have a look here:

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/st...et=0&class=DPS

    So it's not about destroyed ferals, it's about feral too complex? :-)

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Nostromo93 View Post
    Have a look here:

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/st...et=0&class=DPS

    So it's not about destroyed ferals, it's about feral too complex? :-)
    My point is that you can always find a particular way of slicing data to push your agenda.

    That said, your last link is completely useless because "min" is the "lol I was AFK making sandwiches" parses, but you already know this.

  3. #43
    Deleted
    I think that the answer to OP's question is "as of 8.1, yes"

  4. #44
    EU here, are we bad again in 8.1? Seeing a lot of grumbling but nothing definitive yet.

  5. #45
    Moderator -aiko-'s Avatar
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    Our stats and builds changed drastically so a lot of people lost damage and don't have the right pieces to make up for it. Personally, I keep most of my high level gear (since I play all 4 specs anyway) so I was able to put a new set together and am seeing a minor dps increase in ST, and a noticeable increase in AoE (<3 PW). It seems like crit is king now with mastery following closely behind. Trait-wise Power of the Moon is dead and it seems like Jungle Fury and Gushing Lacerations are both strong. I'm running Archive/Jungle/Gushing with SbT/SotF/BrS/BT for ST and sim ~18,100.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by -aiko- View Post
    Our stats and builds changed drastically so a lot of people lost damage and don't have the right pieces to make up for it. Personally, I keep most of my high level gear (since I play all 4 specs anyway) so I was able to put a new set together and am seeing a minor dps increase in ST, and a noticeable increase in AoE (<3 PW). It seems like crit is king now with mastery following closely behind. Trait-wise Power of the Moon is dead and it seems like Jungle Fury and Gushing Lacerations are both strong. I'm running Archive/Jungle/Gushing with SbT/SotF/BrS/BT for ST and sim ~18,100.
    I think that's the crux of the situation, it really depends what you have right now. One of the issues I've run into with boomie (as it's similar to Feral) is that my stat priority completely shifted and Azerite traits changed in power or just changed completely. Fortunately, I've sat on roughly 10 pieces of Azerite gear for 8.1, and I'm still not in the most ideal situation. Most of it has to do with the double-Azerite ring that is yet to be implemented, and having the bare minimum traits you want right now is really hard unless you've been lucky with drops. I've been trying to build a Feral set and I've run into this issue since the traits matter, and it likely won't get better for me and potentially other Ferals until the double-Azerite traits.

    I was hoping the Azerite vendor would help, but with those prices and RNG and a lack of double-Azerite traits right now... might need to wait until the next raid to start building a Feral set.
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  7. #47
    Most specs feel dull, unsatisfying and clunky, Feral is just another. BfA class design at large is worse than it has been the past three expansions.

  8. #48
    Moderator -aiko-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonil View Post
    I was thinking of making a druid but now. I'm thinking that maybe it's not a good idea
    It all depends on what you're looking for but my advice is to not listen to the general playerbase. I don't know how to put this delicately, so I won't: the majority of them don't know what the fuck they're talking about.

    Play Druid if you are interested in the versatility of having multiple specs available to you. If Feral is a class you are interested in you can probably expect mid/upper-mid performance in raids (based on Uldir). We simply don't know how Dazar'alor will look though, since they always do their raid tuning patch after a raid releases, but the fact is we are better equipped to handle encounters we were previously weak at with the 8.1 changes.

    Just keep in mind that, as has been mentioned multiple times in this thread and others, Feral is considered a "complicated" spec. It is a spec that heavily relies on you understanding your mechanics and taking a "slow" but calculated approach. It is very punishing if you play incorrectly. If you want to mash buttons and do good DPS then Feral is not a spec for you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by exochaft View Post
    I was hoping the Azerite vendor would help, but with those prices and RNG and a lack of double-Azerite traits right now... might need to wait until the next raid to start building a Feral set.
    It's probably better to wait anyway, though. For all we know the Dazar'alor tuning patch will cause another shift in trait strength and stat weights. /shrug

  9. #49
    To answer the OP:

    Hell no!

    Feral gameplay is really good now. You can go the very dot-focused path and get a ranged combo-point builder - or a much more direct-damage build. You can even adjust your AoE gameplay independently.

    And I must say, it feels really good. I especially like Primal Wrath - feels very much in line with how Feral should operate. It's even good in PvP situations. Now, I have heard stories about some Ferals losing ST dps. Personally, I do think we're a bit undertuned. So I expect a buff before next raid opens. The buffs to Shred have been great, but our bleeds have fallen a bit behind, relative to our direct damage. So meaningful buffs to Rake and Rip should be on the table.

    But the mechanics feel like they're locked in.

    And before people start up with the usual "It's dumbed-down!" crap. Feral now has 5(!) finishers, 4 bleeds, 1 ranged combo point builder with a DoT, up to 3 different AoE abilities at the same time (the spec has 4 AoE abilities in all), snapshot mechanic on 2 abilities and the possibility of handling off-healing/-tanking/-ranged dps while in combat. And Blizzard could still add further complexity by adding stuff like an armor debuff (we've had one for over a decade, in different abilities and mechanics).

    On top of that, we just got Cyclone back as a PvP talent. So we now have 5 CC abilities (a stun as baseline, a talent row with CC abilities, Hibernate, Roots and Cyclone), a slow applied via a baseline attack and we can remove Enrage effects. I honestly can't come up with any other class or spec with as many CC abilities.

    Feral is looking very good now. Our only weakness is our lackluster dps cooldown.

  10. #50
    So, crit and mastery is great for AOE, but single haste + crit is best?
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  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Djuntas View Post
    So, crit and mastery is great for AOE, but single haste + crit is best?
    ST (2000122) seems to be 50% crit, 30% mastery, 10% haste, 10% versi

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  12. #52
    Is feral actually worse now or people overreacting?

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Skylarking View Post
    Is feral actually worse now or people overreacting?
    far worse in numbers , bit better in gameplay i guess

  14. #54
    I don't know how to put this delicately, so I won't: the majority of them don't know what the fuck they're talking about.
    Seconded. Feral is not a pick up and play spec, and most people in here honestly don't have the faintest of clues of how to play it well. Feral had really good single target dps before 8.1, and that hasn't changed. In fact, Sub, the spec that was far and away the best for single target has had it's OP mechanic stripped away, making things a more even playing field there. Feral now has AoE options by default, that cover 3 different kinds of AoE situations very well. So we went from being sort of a one trick pony that got beat by another spec at our one trick, to being a more well rounded single target specialist that is at or close to the top of the single target dps charts.

    Honestly, I was very surprised the other day when I popped onto mmo-champ to see Feral was getting a 7% buff on top of that. Feral will be a beastly spec soon. 7% for me is an added 1k dps on Taloc. That is... quite a lot.

    Our stats and builds changed drastically so a lot of people lost damage and don't have the right pieces to make up for it.
    For stats, not really. While it has changed, Haste and Crit are still generally on top. Sometimes Mastery is better than crit ever so slightly. The difference is that Mastery is a stat that actually brings something to the table. If anything, this is an upgrade for a vast majority of Feral players, as it's very hard to not have mastery on your gear. Vers was never really that bad either, but now it's the worst stat by default.

    Build wise, well that has changed due to 8.1 moving talents around and removing jagged wounds. That said, the easymode derp talents (Sabertooth and SotF) simmed the highest, so the only thing that really changed in my rotation was the lack of jagged wounds and brutal slash. Not sure how it is for others, there is probably a decent amount of variance, but you can probably roll those talents and make 90%+ logs even if they aren't the most optimal.

  15. #55
    Over 9000! Duilliath's Avatar
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    Druid (Forums / Skills / Talent Calculator)Feral
    Damage of all abilities increased by 7%.
    And this is why I take issue with all the people going "Nah, you suck, feral is fine. L2P." A lot of it is self-gratulatory backpatting. If feral were fine, it'd not need to see buff after buff after buff.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Skylarking View Post
    Is feral actually worse now or people overreacting?
    When two ferals duel each other and can easily out-heal each other's damage making the duel last forever, i'd say something is wrong. (Feels like playing a healer rather than a ferocious assasin cat)

    The dps took a huge dip in single target - bleeds got quality of life changes, but started to tick 500-600 less damage(Rip was ticking 2100-2600 8.0, but in 8.1 ticking around 1500-2000).

    I can never imagine swipe critting 67k like it does for divine storm for my retri in certain situations. The main reason why the damage is low, is that swipe and other spells can be spammed and have a rather low base damage even at high item level. That's why the 7% buff will actually fix the problem very well.

  17. #57
    Moderator -aiko-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skylarking View Post
    Is feral actually worse now or people overreacting?
    It's...in an interesting spot. On paper, we sim very high single-target damage and without a doubt gained a significant boost to AoE. I had to re-arrange my stats and play around with the changed traits but I actually gained ~200 dps from 8.1. And on top of that we'll be getting a 7% buff next week.

    In practice, though, we struggle in Uldir since the way the encounters are designed do not favor a heavy ramp-up spec like Feral. A lot of the popular builds that we used in Uldir to make up for this (mainly Wild Fleshrending and Power of the Moon) no longer work. Berserk is a garbage cooldown so we literally do not have any real burst potential.

    I can't lie with the logs; the current state of Feral in Uldir looks very dire. Being near the end of the tier, with gear levels being so high and boss kill times being so low Feral is simply getting wrecked by every other spec. We really don't have any opportunities in Uldir to reach our DPS potential.

    Outside of raiding, Feral is strong as ever in PvP.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by MookieRah View Post
    For stats, not really. While it has changed, Haste and Crit are still generally on top. Sometimes Mastery is better than crit ever so slightly. The difference is that Mastery is a stat that actually brings something to the table.
    Hmm I'd be interested to hear where you got this information. In my case, crit and mastery took over (with crit even being above agility) and haste dropped to dead last. I've heard similar sentiments in the Discord, but to be honest I don't really follow the Discord all that closely so I could be wrong.

  18. #58
    Over 9000! Duilliath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by -aiko- View Post
    Outside of raiding, Feral is strong as ever in PvP.
    Slightly less so, due to retuned healing and less abusive Azerite Traits. Cyclone back is huge, however having to choose between Sabertooth and Lunar Inspiration did hurt. AoE rip makes us more dangerous in Rot teams, which is cool, cos they also tend to bring the CC we somewhat lack.

    Hmm I'd be interested to hear where you got this information. In my case, crit and mastery took over (with crit even being above agility) and haste dropped to dead last. I've heard similar sentiments in the Discord, but to be honest I don't really follow the Discord all that closely so I could be wrong.
    Same. There's very little updated information thus far, particularly when supported by appropriate sources and data.

  19. #59
    Hmm I'd be interested to hear where you got this information. In my case, crit and mastery took over (with crit even being above agility) and haste dropped to dead last. I've heard similar sentiments in the Discord, but to be honest I don't really follow the Discord all that closely so I could be wrong.
    You were right. Was going off of what I heard on the discord about stuff before the patch went down. Haste is dead last for me as well now, and as you said crit is ever so slightly ahead of agility for me as well. Oh Blizzard. Wish they would learn subtlety with their changes, but whatevs, plenty of time to farm out better gear for the next tier.

    I apologize for the misinformation. You can blame it on the release of Smash Ultimate, cause I haven't cared that much about WoW lately :P.
    Last edited by MookieRah; 2018-12-16 at 08:06 PM.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by zlloyd1 View Post
    While I will have to agree with many of the points made here, I must persist that it is seeming to be WAY slower to take down mobs than it was before the new crop of Blizz people started ripping in the spec so heavily.
    Yes, you can survive, but no you cannot do good damage anymore. The running out of energy is not as big a concern for me as I made out to be honest, mainly because I have 30% haste, but even with that, almost none of the attacks do decent damage anymore. The mobs just sit there and tank me for what seems like eternity, and I am tired of trying to kill powerful enemies with spitballs that just seem to bounce off.
    I may just go back to my Boomkin, I could see them taking damage, and keep them at bay somewhat with Entangle, but as I noted, I was wanting to switch because it seemed too slow to burn them down with Balance, and I was sincerely hoping that Feral could help me pick up the pace somewhat. That turned out to be a disappointing eye-opener for me, as they now feel somewhat toothless....
    I must admit though, Blizz did give a LOT of love to my main, and Demo Locks are almost Godlike in BFA, in fact all I do with him now is PVP and Raid, so perhaps a Druid is a bad class altogether now. However, I did take the time to get him all the way to 107, and do not want to throw all of that away now. It seems a shame to me, because it WAS a very cool hybrid class, at one time, similar to Pallies, and in the WOW lore, Druids are made out to be extremely, next-level powerful creatures. I do not intend to give up on my Druid, until I get him to 120 either, so I may go back, and see about rerolling him for Guardian, and go Bear.
    Tanks are sort of slow to kill, but they are also not often truly threatened either. Who knows, maybe I could make a solid Tank out of him, I just hate giving up the enjoyment of slaughtering baddies, just to not die. DPS is my heroin really. As well, tanking can significantly slow down the leveling process, so until I get to 120, I will likely stick with the Boomkin, and then specialize.
    In any case, Thanks for all of the responses!!
    Raist? That you with your stupid, eye killing completely random bolding? Comeon man, you got called out by blizz to knock that crap off

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