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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Duilliath View Post
    And this is why I take issue with all the people going "Nah, you suck, feral is fine. L2P." A lot of it is self-gratulatory backpatting. If feral were fine, it'd not need to see buff after buff after buff.
    I agree completely. But I believe this primarily started in MoP, where you potentially had to monitor 4 different procs and/or on-use effects, and time these with your PS proc/BT charges and your SR uptime. I mean, the skill ceiling was quite high - unless you used Ovale ofc, in which case you had an automated suggestion box running.

    Back then, a friendly suggestion to "learn 2 play" had actual value. Now, it's just a dumb and arrogant remark, to show how good you think you are - and how much that justifies you to shit on other people.

  2. #62
    Hey guys. Is there a write-up or concise summary of feral now?
    We have been underplayed for such a stretch that the supporting community seems to have dwindled too.

    Means the average player like me is performing worse as we have no way to fathom out our best stats and talents. >I< know I could just sim sim my self 96 times in all my different gear and talenet setups - but that is WAAAY too much effort for the average gamer. And the sim sites say things are still (a bit) "guesswork" in 8.1. So Im looking for experts to chime in with some numbers and theorycraft, and there is nothing out there.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by neiljwd View Post
    Hey guys. Is there a write-up or concise summary of feral now?
    We have been underplayed for such a stretch that the supporting community seems to have dwindled too.

    Means the average player like me is performing worse as we have no way to fathom out our best stats and talents. >I< know I could just sim sim my self 96 times in all my different gear and talenet setups - but that is WAAAY too much effort for the average gamer. And the sim sites say things are still (a bit) "guesswork" in 8.1. So Im looking for experts to chime in with some numbers and theorycraft, and there is nothing out there.
    For the sim-part, being accurate or not, you don't have to sim 96 different gear versions 1 by 1, use topgear on raidbots (don't know if that is what you are referring to), but that could save you a lot of time, and get you pointed in the right direction.

  4. #64
    Never been easier to sim. A glance at herodamage to pick traits for what you want (ST or AoE heavy) and top gear. It's just so simple it's fun. With set bonus and legendaries gone it's almost no choice either.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Whitepaw View Post
    This problem is made worse by the fact that so many dps specs are so good at AoE. The worst culprit is DH, who can even use superior AoE to get healing from orbs! So no need to even use GCD to heal.

    It seems as if Blizzard has decided to say that “Fun = AoE”. A lot of the PvE gameplay is now build on that. It’s also build on “Immunities > DR” and “Leech > healing” and so we get gameplay looking like Diablo III.

    I think Feral abilities should be developed further and be more fun - but it would be nice if the whole PvE meta was dialed back from the AoE fest (including lots of AoE stuns!), with passive leech and automatic immunities ruling everything.

    The PvE gameplay should be more focused on killing targets single target. There should be a greater need to continously CC certain mobs to ensure tank survival. Tank damage should be dialed back to 25% of a dps spec. Leech and immunities should be nerfed, making healers more important. We should be more dependant on each role doing its job, instead of some classes being almost self-sustained.
    Totally agree with you, it seems to me that all classes have been simplified, AoE is insane at how much some classes can do, there is no need to CC anything at present. May as well remove the CC abilities for PvE as its no longer needed. Really want to get back into my druid but feral feels awkward to play.

  6. #66
    People asking lots of Feral questions should just hop onto the discord. It’s quite active and the members are some of the nicest I’ve run into in an online community.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by neiljwd View Post
    Means the average player like me is performing worse as we have no way to fathom out our best stats and talents. >I< know I could just sim sim my self 96 times in all my different gear and talenet setups - but that is WAAAY too much effort for the average gamer. And the sim sites say things are still (a bit) "guesswork" in 8.1. So Im looking for experts to chime in with some numbers and theorycraft, and there is nothing out there.
    https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/topgear for gear, specc, trait and gem / enchant simming
    https://bloodmallet.com/index.html#d..._distributions for some 3D visiual, how secondary stat spread should look like
    e.g spread of stats only results in a 800 dps spread - which an average value and not extrem like shadows or survival which can reach above 2000 dps difference

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  8. #68
    I need simulation craft addon for that 1st link it seems, will try. Thank you for the linkage.

  9. #69
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    Simming yourself nowadays is extremely simple. Download the simcraft addon, type /simc in-game, copy the text it provides to you, and paste it into Raidbots.com.

  10. #70
    Feral Druids were ruined as soon as they added the Guardian tree.

    Why, you might ask?

    The whole point of Feral druids was they could play a sub-par Rogue (Cat form) and a sub-par Warrior (Bear form) at the same time. Allowing for versatility to adapt to whatever the combat required. Feral Druids made excellent off tanks (In the days of Burning Crusade) as whenever a fight didn't require them to tank something, they could swap to cat form to DPS instead. With the addition of the Guardian tree, there's no real reason to play a Feral/Guardian Druid over a Rogue/Warrior as both those classes have a more well rounded kit. Not only did Blizzard completely ruin the versatility that made Feral fun, but they even got rid of most of the burst damage they used to have. (They used to have high damage openers from Stealth like Rogues) And made Bear form somehow even more boring than the rest of the Tanking classes. (Spam AoE Swipes... yay)

    After coming back to the game after a log hiatus, (Quit in Wotlk, came back in Legion) I've shelved my Druid entirely and now just play a Demon Hunter instead. They can tank and DPS well, have good burst and AoE Burst damage and insane mobility. Where as Feral/Guardian Druids offer nothing that another class can't do better. Blizzard needs to get off their butts and revamp Feral and Guardians to serve some kind of Purpose. If it were up to me, I'd get rid of the Guardian Tree and make them into the excellent Off-tanks that they used to be.

  11. #71
    Doesn't method use a feral druid in their raids?
    The hunter hoe with the least beloe.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Nokturnel View Post
    Feral Druids were ruined as soon as they added the Guardian tree.

    Why, you might ask?

    The whole point of Feral druids was they could play a sub-par Rogue (Cat form) and a sub-par Warrior (Bear form) at the same time. Allowing for versatility to adapt to whatever the combat required. Feral Druids made excellent off tanks (In the days of Burning Crusade) as whenever a fight didn't require them to tank something, they could swap to cat form to DPS instead. With the addition of the Guardian tree, there's no real reason to play a Feral/Guardian Druid over a Rogue/Warrior as both those classes have a more well rounded kit. Not only did Blizzard completely ruin the versatility that made Feral fun, but they even got rid of most of the burst damage they used to have. (They used to have high damage openers from Stealth like Rogues) And made Bear form somehow even more boring than the rest of the Tanking classes. (Spam AoE Swipes... yay)

    After coming back to the game after a log hiatus, (Quit in Wotlk, came back in Legion) I've shelved my Druid entirely and now just play a Demon Hunter instead. They can tank and DPS well, have good burst and AoE Burst damage and insane mobility. Where as Feral/Guardian Druids offer nothing that another class can't do better. Blizzard needs to get off their butts and revamp Feral and Guardians to serve some kind of Purpose. If it were up to me, I'd get rid of the Guardian Tree and make them into the excellent Off-tanks that they used to be.
    Yeah, except the fact that there wasn't a single time in WoW's history when you needed a sub-par rogue or a sub-par warrior in your raid. You needed a rogue or a warrior. Cats switching into bear to save a wipe is legends category, and if you needed an offtank then you simply brought an extra tank to the raid. There was like 2-3 fight from classic to wotlk where you needed an extra tank, but dual specialisation solved that problem too. There is no such a thing as "offtank" since 10 years in this game

    This is the dumbest argument i have ever heard.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Vilendor View Post
    Yeah, except the fact that there wasn't a single time in WoW's history when you needed a sub-par rogue or a sub-par warrior in your raid. You needed a rogue or a warrior. Cats switching into bear to save a wipe is legends category, and if you needed an offtank then you simply brought an extra tank to the raid. There was like 2-3 fight from classic to wotlk where you needed an extra tank, but dual specialisation solved that problem too. There is no such a thing as "offtank" since 10 years in this game
    Actually there are multiple boss fights in this game in which 2 tanks are required but there's downtime between taking damage, in which being able to change to Cat and apply bleeds/deal more damage would be beneficial to the fight. I remember specifically for Zul'jin (At the end of Zul'Aman) he'd wipe threat in between each phase and for his Dragonhawk phase he didn't need to be tanked at all, allowing you swap to Cat while main tanking, apply bleeds and pick up threat a lot quicker when he phased. (Hell, Feral tanks were probably the best threat builders prior to Death Knights being added and completely being overpowered as Hell on release)

    Your definition of Off-tank is not my definition of off-tank and I think that's where your disagreement is coming from. An off-tank can be the 2nd main tank or yes, someone who takes over tanking if the tank dies.

    Even for Mythic+ now-a-days, if Ferals were like they used to be (capable of switching between Cat and Bear freely and not be a shitty completely nerfed version) they'd be a welcome addition to groups as they'd be able to pull extra adds off the main tank and tank them well or picking up all the adds if the main tank dies.

    Right now, they have no purpose as they are just a shitty sub-par Rogue in Cat form and a shitty sub-par Warrior in Bear form, with no longer having the ability to swap between them. (As they are completely useless in Bear form when specced Feral and completely useless in Cat form specced Guardian) As for the people who think it's OP to be able to swap between DPSing and Tanking on the fly, you have to understand, Cat and Bear are both just worse versions of existing classes.
    Last edited by Nokturnel; 2019-01-15 at 03:03 AM.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Nokturnel View Post
    Actually there are multiple boss fights in this game in which 2 tanks are required but there's downtime between taking damage, in which being able to change to Cat and apply bleeds/deal more damage would be beneficial to the fight. I remember specifically for Zul'jin (At the end of Zul'Aman) he'd wipe threat in between each phase and for his Dragonhawk phase he didn't need to be tanked at all, allowing you swap to Cat while main tanking, apply bleeds and pick up threat a lot quicker when he phased. (Hell, Feral tanks were probably the best threat builders prior to Death Knights being added and completely being overpowered as Hell on release)
    Quote Originally Posted by Vilendor
    There was like 2-3 fight from classic to wotlk
    Congratulations, you found one... in a 10 man trash instance
    Not like anyone on this entire planet care if you put up bleeds during a fight and do 0,05% damage to the boss or not. You know what we care about? Do your job as a tank. Including full tank talents and gear instead of some gimped crap just to put up bleeds and save ~10 seconds from the fight. It's not like Zul'jin in Zul'aman is (was) a world first race where your mediocre "sub-par" bear-cat is a must have.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nokturnel View Post
    Your definition of Off-tank is not my definition of off-tank and I think that's where your disagreement is coming from. An off-tank can be the 2nd main tank or yes, someone who takes over tanking if the tank dies.

    Even for Mythic+ now-a-days, if Ferals were like they used to be (capable of switching between Cat and Bear freely and not be a shitty completely nerfed version) they'd be a welcome addition to groups as they'd be able to pull extra adds off the main tank and tank them well or picking up all the adds if the main tank dies.
    You clearly lack the basic knowledge of how this game works and how people play it. No. No one would want a "sub-par" cat-bear just to save a wipe. And no, tanks don't want you to pick up the adds because it's their job and the whole game is designed around the fact that they do it alone. What people would want instead is a full value third dps killing those adds.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nokturnel View Post
    Right now, they have no purpose as they are just a shitty sub-par Rogue in Cat form and a shitty sub-par Warrior in Bear form, with no longer having the ability to swap between them. (As they are completely useless in Bear form when specced Feral and completely useless in Cat form specced Guardian) As for the people who think it's OP to be able to swap between DPSing and Tanking on the fly, you have to understand, Cat and Bear are both just worse versions of existing classes.
    If you think the class is only defined by the ability (or the lack of it) of doing something no one ever did and completely useless since a decade, then im glad you switched main. Here we talk about number tunings and talent changes and Blizzards inability to get them right, but if you think the druids are shitty rouges and shitty warriors you should just leave, because you clearly don't have anything to do with this class.

  15. #75
    Moderator -aiko-'s Avatar
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    I'm already capable of tanking in an emergency, especially with Guardian Affinity. Not for an extended period of time, but I have legitimately saved a few pulls this tier by popping defensives and taunting in bear.

    I would rather not sacrifice anything to be even "better" at this super niche role, nor do I think it is necessary.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Muajin76 View Post
    Doesn't method use a feral druid in their raids?
    Not sure if they do or not, but I would surmise they'd bring a Feral for Stampeding Roar and put on ST damage duty. In high-end mythic raiding, everything you bring usually has a purpose, which is why you end up seeing class stacking on fights. The only thing particularly unique a Feral brings is Stampeding Roar, especially since bears have fallen out of favor compared to other tanks when it comes to progression.
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  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Nokturnel View Post
    The whole point of Feral druids was they could play a sub-par Rogue (Cat form) and a sub-par Warrior (Bear form) at the same time. Allowing for versatility to adapt to whatever the combat required.
    "Hybrids" don't match up with today's class balance, or raid/dungeon design.

    You can't be a tank and a DPS, you can only be one. There is no need for a "hybrid" that can do both.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tommi View Post
    LFR saved raiding
    Quote Originally Posted by Haekke View Post
    LFR is not really easy. I would say it's a lot harder thant Mythic Dungeons
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  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by zlloyd1 View Post
    I recently changed my Balance Boomkin to Feral, after finishing the artifact questline, and have come to realize that Feral Druids have been completely nerfed out of the game for some reason....
    They do almost zero damage, even to PVE trash mobs, they run out of energy almost before the fight starts, and they are completely squishy to the point where they almost die of fright at the first sign of an enemy.
    So my question is this, is there any good reason to play as a Feral Druid anymore, or has Blizzard just removed that spec from the game altogether, and if so why??
    Also, as a side question, is there any kind of energy potion that is not just for Rogues in the game?? I thought Thistle Tea, but of course, that is only for Rogues too. What a rip off, I am sincerely considering ending my sub to WOW, until they can get a team in there that is not dedicated to ruining everything fun about the game that pays their salaries.
    Oh yeah, and Thanks in advance!!
    It's about mobility and utility. Blizz said the same for rogues in legion which is why they got nurfed by 45% before the stopped. They heal too much and they have too much mobility to be a high dps class.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Nokturnel View Post
    Even for Mythic+ now-a-days, if Ferals were like they used to be (capable of switching between Cat and Bear freely and not be a shitty completely nerfed version) they'd be a welcome addition to groups as they'd be able to pull extra adds off the main tank and tank them well or picking up all the adds if the main tank dies.
    In my opinion Treants serve this function more effectively, while also coming from a spec that can actually contribute to the group.

    While single target is certainly better than it was, adding an AoE Rip didn't work near as well as the Legion approach to buffing Brutal Slash. (Speaking specifically to M+ performance)

  20. #80
    For some reason I can't compete with other classes in M+ because of the AoE damage they dish out. With brutal slash dealing solid all round damage it's fine the first few global cooldowns. As soon as all those are on cooldown and you have to spread your DoT's it's awful. In my opinion it takes too long to let the dots do their full damage and the damage on the dots is just pathetic.

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